Post-Game Talk: Stars win in Shootout 3-2. Chico night indeed.

[Uli Hiemer]

This place is classic. Fire Pete. Replace Lou. Trade everyone.

Your Vezina goaltender hasn't gotten his game together yet. He will - (although he'll never be the caliber that the Cory club believes him to be)

The kids are going to have bad nights.

This is a bridge year anyway. I said at the start that I would be surprised if they sneak in - Because of the kid Dmen, I'm actually more encouraged than in the offseason.

Best thing that can happen is Larsson and the kids get some time to grow into their skins, and we find out about JJ, Brunner, Boosh and Matteau.

Jagr and Elias likely aren't going anywhere, and Trav and Adam are the cornerstones up front. Cammy is the only bright spot - but I'm fine dealing him if we can get something back at the deadline - assuming he is on a 30-goal pace.

I have always thought Clowe to be done and Ryder to be way too streaky for this team. It would be great if either or both get hot. I won't hold my breath expecting anyone to accept them in a trade. Havlat is surprisingly on the shelf.

Gio is fine for the 4th line. Ruutu is fine too, but I'd rather see Matteau.

Zubs needs to be jettisoned despite my love for the guy. Same with Tootoo, same with Sal. Zids is ridiculously important to this team but if some team comes knocking, I'd deal him too, as he's becoming more expendable with every Gelinas/Severson minute on the ice. I'm fine with bringing Helgeson up if Zids is dealt or Sal becomes 7th dman.

Bridge year. Take our lumps now.
Cammy Trav Jagr
Brunner Elias Havlat
Matteau Henrique Boosh
Ruutu JJ Gio

Severson Greene
Merrill Larsson
Helgeson Gelinas

OR - just keep it all together, and maybe things will work out. Patrick Marleau said of us 'that team has a lot of firepower'. Really?

Matteau should replace Zubrus not Ruutu. Zubrus is ****ing dreadful and is playing more minutes than Ruutu.

 

[tr83]

This place is classic. Fire Pete. Replace Lou. Trade everyone.


OR - just keep it all together, and maybe things will work out. Patrick Marleau said of us 'that team has a lot of firepower'. Really?

Maybe Marleau is right and it takes a new coach to give the team a different direction

 

[NJD Kula]

Deboer is a huge ****ing loser.

Who the **** is happy with just 1 point? I've never seen a professional coach who is so happy after losing so much the past 2 seasons. This is a joke.

Lou fired Ftorek in the midst of an amazing season for losing ****ing 5 games in a row. What in the **** is he waiting for???

I'm all for calm nerves and looking at positives but it's not like it's his first season and we're giving him a shot. This aint Johnny Mac riding it out through Xmas. DUMP DEBOER! Storm the gates! rabble rabble!

 

[Uli Hiemer]

Deboer is a huge ****ing loser.

Who the **** is happy with just 1 point? I've never seen a professional coach who is so happy after losing so much the past 2 seasons. This is a joke.

Lou fired Ftorek in the midst of an amazing season for losing ****ing 5 games in a row. What in the **** is he waiting for???

I'm all for calm nerves and looking at positives but it's not like it's his first season and we're giving him a shot. This aint Johnny Mac riding it out through Xmas. DUMP DEBOER! Storm the gates! rabble rabble!

Ftorek had a much much better team. Not even in the same league as the ****fest we've been subjected to for years now, outside of 2012.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Agree - but Dallas didn't become good in one season. Lehtonen, Daley, Benn were there, as were the kids you point out. Nill's made some good moves, but he used assets that were developed from previous regimes and previous sucking.

And our big trade fled for Russia and our best drafted forward left. That's one difference between them going up and us going down.

Dallas went shopping to get them to this point too, and we did as well. The big trade is missing, we most likely need a big trade for a top 6 center to make the leap. That is the major difference.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I've said this 1000 times, but Cory should sit in the shootout.

It should be no different than the shooters selected, you go with you're best. And Cory stinks on breakaways.

 

[NJDevs26]

Ftorek had a much much better team. Not even in the same league as the ****fest we've been subjected to for years now, outside of 2012.

And the slump was a little longer than losing a 'few games', they were in a 4-10-2 death march. And it's not like Ftorek didn't flame out before NJ (in LA) or after it (Boston fired him just before their playoffs too) so clearly something was amiss there.

If anything the Julien firing was worse, they weren't in a supermajor slump. I think they were even 4-3 in their final seven games under Julien. Of course when players allegedly start shooting pucks at you and nothing happens well you're just a cardboard cutout anyway.

 

[JimEIV]

I'm torturing myself watching the replay right now.

 

[NJDevs26]

I've said this 1000 times, but Cory should sit in the shootout.

It should be no different than the shooters selected, you go with you're best. And Cory stinks on breakaways.

Is Clemmensen good in the shootout though? Would any goalie even be good coming in cold to begin with?

I don't really know what's happened to Cory here in the shootout since he had an okay record in it when he was in Vancouver, but right now they'd probably be better with NJay in the shootout than either goalie.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I've said this 1000 times, but Cory should sit in the shootout.

It should be no different than the shooters selected, you go with you're best. And Cory stinks on breakaways.

He has been better on breakaways this year. He faced one, maybe two tonight that he stopped.

Shootout he still stinks, but that Spezza crap annoys me. Putting the brakes on, I don't see how that is allowed. Jagr did it too, I know, and I still don't like it. Just gimmicky crap.

That said he needed to pokecheck Spezza, but his biggest weakness is his stick.

 

[JimEIV]

I thought they changed the rule this year to make a full stop illegal?

 

[Emperoreddy]

I thought they changed the rule this year to make a full stop illegal?

I thought they did too, but I guess Spezza didn't "full stop" he only slowed to a damn crawl.

Same gimmick crap as spin-o-ramas and full stops in my book.

 

[Eric Sachs]

Not sure the spin that's being put on it here but Severson is as much to blame with that 1st goal than Greene is. Greene lost a puck battle but why was Severson standing in no man's land? Left the crease wide open with no chance of getting back to it.

I like that Deboer didn't Larsson him and let him play past that mistake, though. That's how you handle a youngster. They will make mistakes, let them learn from them.

 

[Uli Hiemer]

Cory did stop a penalty shot this season too. Who the **** knows why he sucks so bad at them. There are plenty of butterfly goalies that have good records in SOs, so I doubt it's that.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I thought they changed the rule this year to make a full stop illegal?

Full stop has been illegal, but I guess there was question whether spin moves counted as a stop in forward motion until they banned it this year.

I just don't see how what Spezza and Jagr did is much different though. Forward movement is pretty much completely stopped and you are just juggling the puck in front of the goaltender.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Well Gio didn't have to kill as many penalties tonight either so that kept his icetime down.

I think Gio only played 2 shifts for under a minute on the pk last game. He was demoted.

 

[JimEIV]

Not sure the spin that's being put on it here but Severson is as much to blame with that 1st goal than Greene is. Greene lost a puck battle but why was Severson standing in no man's land? Left the crease wide open with no chance of getting back to it.

I like that Deboer didn't Larsson him and let him play past that mistake, though. That's how you handle a youngster. They will make mistakes, let them learn from them.

No. Severson was originally going to go turn up ice to go on offense and had to turn back to the play because Greene didn't get rid of the puck got himself in trouble...Severson tried to get back to help him but the play went out the other side...Greene's indecision caused all of that...I just watched it 6 times.

 

[Devs4L]

Not sure the spin that's being put on it here but Severson is as much to blame with that 1st goal than Greene is. Greene lost a puck battle but why was Severson standing in no man's land? Left the crease wide open with no chance of getting back to it.

I like that Deboer didn't Larsson him and let him play past that mistake, though. That's how you handle a youngster. They will make mistakes, let them learn from them.

Severson crept in to lend support once he saw Greene was about to be in a two on one situation along the wall. Greene made, first of all, what should have been a relatively quick simple play with the puck into a harder one, and then lost a battle way to easily and quickly.

That play was at least 90% on Andy Greene, IMO.

 

[Devs4L]

No. Severson was originally going to go turn up ice to go on offense and had to turn back to the play because Greene didn't get rid of the puck got himself in trouble...Severson tried to get back to help him but the play went out the other side...Greene's indecision caused all of that...I just watched it 6 times.

Yep, pretty much this.

 

[Eric Sachs]

No. Severson was originally going to go turn up ice to go on offense and had to turn back to the play because Greene didn't get rid of the puck got himself in trouble...Severson tried to get back to help him but the play went out the other side...Greene's indecision caused all of that...I just watched it 6 times.

You're on the PK. Why are you turning up ice to go on offense?

That's also completely not true. Severson goes straight to support Greene off the faceoff.. and follows him past the goal-line. He 100% should have went between the puck battle and the net to both lend support AND be in a defensive position.

He basically made it so that if Greene lost the puck battle (and granted, it's his fault he did), there would be absolutely no-one covering the middle of the net. That's not how defensemen work, especially on the PK.

When do you ever want BOTH defensemen BEHIND the net battling for a puck? Would that ever be acceptable on the PK? There's providing support.. and then there's playing yourself out of position.

Severson crept in to lend support once he saw Greene was about to be in a two on one situation along the wall. Greene made, first of all, what should have been a relatively quick simple play with the puck into a harder one, and then lost a battle way to easily and quickly.

That play was at least 90% on Andy Greene, IMO.

Crept in? He flew right past the net and abandoned the correct positioning.

The kid has been great but he's allowed to make mistakes.. and he made one tonight that helped lead to a GA. It's not a big deal, not sure why we have to re-interpret what happened.

 

[ScottyK]

Cory did stop a penalty shot this season too. Who the **** knows why he sucks so bad at them. There are plenty of butterfly goalies that have good records in SOs, so I doubt it's that.

Cory's biggest strength is his positioning he is always in the right spots in games. I think when he has to think a bit more on his feet in the shootouts he tends to get a bit eradic and indecisive. He'll get better

 

[Eric Sachs]

Cory's biggest strength is his positioning he is always in the right spots in games. I think when he has to think a bit more on his feet in the shootouts he tends to get a bit eradic and indecisive. He'll get better

Cory is a very technical goaltender. He stops pucks by being in the right position more often than not. It's basically how most butterfly goalies are nowadays.

He lacks an advanced anticipatory component where he can read plays to the degree that he can cheat. He does this.. as every NHL goalie does.. but it lags significantly behind his technical abilities.

He's also not a very aggressive goalie. So you have the shootout where it's basically the shooter being able to dictate the play. Not being aggressive allows the shooter to take his time and walk right in. He doesn't anticipate the shooter very well so it's really just too easy.

It's just not something he's very good at right now. You see goalies like Marty excel in it because he reads into the play. He guesses.. way more often right than not. He plays aggressive and forces the shooter to change up his plan, leading to mistakes or pressure forcing the shooter wide.

First step is just being more aggressive in the shootout. Play farther out of the crease. Learn how to employ a pokecheck (something I can't recall Schneider ever doing) effectively. End of the day, it's a skills competition and I really don't care too much about it... but these are valuable points.

 

[Chessarmy]

Chico night was really emotional for me, I loved the speech and getting to listen to Doc call the game again with his best color commentator was an amazing moment.

The game itself was very entertaining, and I thought the Devils played well and I loved how they battled back in the 3rd to tie it up. Damien Brunner is looking awesome so far, and the young guns on D had solid games.

All I'm going to say about the goaltending is I'm starting to lose my patience with Cory Schneider. I'll leave it at that. Yet another softy tonight and just an abysmal effort in the shootout. Sit him tomorrow night and hope he can get his game together, this is not good enough.

 

[JimEIV]

You're on the PK. Why are you turning up ice to go on offense?

That's also completely not true. Severson goes straight to support Greene off the faceoff..


The kid has been great but he's allowed to make mistakes.

Watch again he bumps Spezza to slow him down and then drifts...he wants to go to the wall his body and crest are parallel to the boards he has to turn his shoulders to go in and help Greene when he gets in trouble.


Greene is behind the net with time and doesn't move the puck...Severson is expecting the puck to come up his wall or Greene to move it out the other side by skating it or chipping it out. When Greene reverses he now has Spezza on him and Benn...and then Severson comes in. Greene 100% created the problem in every way.


Allow to make mistakes? He doesn't make any!!! That is the point. He has probably been the most mistake free defenseman on the team...the only orher person you can argue for is Merrill...think about that...a 20 year old with no AHL experience playing in his 7th NHL game probably has had the cleanest games among any of our defensemen.

 

[Eric Sachs]

Watch again he bumps Spezza to slow him down and then drifts...he wants to go to the wall his body and crest are parallel to the boards he has to turn his shoulders to go in and help Greene when he gets in trouble.


Greene is behind the net with time and doesn't move the puck...Severson is expecting the puck to come up his wall or Greene to move it out the other side by skating it or chipping it out. When Greene reverses he now has Spezza on him and Benn...and then Severson comes in. Greene 100% created the problem in every way.


Allow to make mistakes? He doesn't make any!!! That is the point he had probably been the most mistake free defenseman on the team...the only orher person you can argue for is Merrill...think about that...a 20 year old with no AHL experience playing in his 7th NHL game probably has had the cleanest games among any of our defensemen.

Come up his wall? He skates directly to Greene.. he's not coming up the wall at all.

Seriously, just answer this question. When do you ever want both defensemen behind the net at the same time?

You stop right where my issue with the play was anyways. "Severson comes in" .. that's the problem. He shouldn't have gone behind the net at all on the PK. Should have planted himself between the puck battle and the net. Period.