Post-Game Talk: Stars 4, Pens 1 - The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same

[pistolpete11]

I think people are talking about Plotnikov like he is the player they hope he will be instead of the player he has shown to be. Maybe he will get more comfortable, but he is not a top 6 player right now. Maybe Sprong isn't either, but he's shown more offensive instincts than Plotnikov.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think people are talking about Plotnikov like he is the player they hope he will be instead of the player he has shown to be. Maybe he will get more comfortable, but he is not a top 6 player right now. Maybe Sprong isn't either, but he's shown more offensive instincts than Plotnikov.

If he can win puck battles and play solid defense, I don't care if he ever scores a goal on that line. Just help them maintain possession and let Geno and Kessel go to work. Anything more than that is just bonus.

He might not be able to do it. That's possible. But I think its worth a shot.

 

[SEALBound]

This team is just one giant jigsaw puzzle that does not fit together to make a common picture. There are pieces to make it, but it doesn't work. The tension in upper management, the lack of chemistry with the players, and the ineptitude of the coaching staff are quickly turning this into a lost season.

Biggest mistake, I believe is shared between MJ and JR. MJ created a system that yearns for mobile dmen. JR and Co let Martin and Ehrhoff go, don't go after Sekera or Franson, and trade Despres for Lovejoy all the while keeping Scuderi and trading off Harrington. Then we wonder where the mobility went and wonder why MJ's system doesn't work. To make matters worse, MJ creates a system that is easily defeated and doesn't get stars into prime scoring chances.

To matters worse, everyone clings to the wrong people and the wrong people are in charge. Kunitz and Scuderi shouldn't even be options for MJ right now. Sid or no Sid they should both be gone. Even for peanuts. Or waived. Now you have a management team that loaded up the offense while giving away youth in hopes for another cup (like every year) and its not panning out...so I have no doubt there us a degree of panic in the organization. That is definitely wearing on everyone.

The pressure on everyone right now is enormous. On JR and the AGMs as they spent the assets to get the players. On MJ as now he has the roster to compete. On Sid to perform well with Kessel and deliver the cup...

There needs to be a "hey guys...cup or no cup...doesn't matter. Just play". They know the expectations... No point turning it into a negative.

Once there is that kind of "release"...I think things will naturally get better. Roster moves though , get Kunitz and Scuds off the team, keep Sprong, and look I to how acquire a couple guys like Rychel and Nick Richtie. Heck even B Lemieux may come cheap. Trade Perron for top 4 help. Admit defeat and send Lovejoy out. Call up Pouliot. Infuse youth.

Sprong-Sid-Horny
Plots-Malkin-Kessel
Rychel/Ritchie-Bonino-Bennett
Duper-Fehr-WBS

Letang-Maatta
Pouliot-Top 4
Dumoulin-Clendening

Done. Once Duper leaves, replace with a WBS guy.

 

[AR5]

It's nothing against DK personally, but I don't know why anyone would pay for something like that. There's more free information out there than anyone can reasonably read. Plus I don't see any evidence of DK having some special batch of sources no one else has. Good for him though. I'm sure about half of the money coming in is from people that forgot they're even paying for it.

I read it to make sure the PGH media is on the right track, meaning in agreeance with us here at HFboards.

 

[Joejosh999]

Welp.
I guess MJ is still our coach.

What do we think this means? For me, I'd hoped that Kirk was on-point and MJ would be gone after yesterday. The loss was so embarrassing at so many levels.

Best case - convince J Martin to temporarily take the reins until someone became available.
I am leaning to Boucher, so that means JM would have to stay all year just to please me LOL!!
(And Boucher would have to be willing to come here...a whole other discussion....)

Anyhow, Mike Johnston is still in charge.

Happy Hour yet?

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

DK does seem to have his fingers pretty close to management's pulse. I assumed, and thought it was known/accepted, that he had/has the best access to the current regime. As evidenced by getting the Lemiuex/Burke interview after Shero was fired and being the one doing the dirty work on Despres. I think he's worth paying attention to (though I would never personally subscribe) for that reason. Take his opinions with a grain of salt and you're probably getting the best idea of what the front office is thinking (or wants you to think it's thinking, etc.), as far as local reporters go.

 

[pistolpete11]

If he can win puck battles and play solid defense, I don't care if he ever scores a goal on that line. Just help them maintain possession and let Geno and Kessel go to work. Anything more than that is just bonus.

He might not be able to do it. That's possible. But I think its worth a shot.

Can't Sprong also do that? And help create offense more than Plotnikov?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Can't Sprong also do that? And help create offense more than Plotnikov?

On his off wing? I'm not sure he can be as steady as Plotnikov in terms of defense, simple transition and puck possession while learning to play on the left. I mean, the things I am talking about are the exact question marks you have when changing a kid to his off wing.

If we're talking about Sprong, I would say he's a better fit replacing Dupuis with Sid and Hornqvist where we can make better use of adding a skilled shooter.

I hope Sprong gets a chance in both of those spots. But out of the two, I think Plotnikov is a better fit for his line than Dupuis is for his.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Not a fan of Plots in the top 6,but what other choice do we have?

 

[pistolpete11]

On his off wing? I'm not sure he can be as steady as Plotnikov in terms of defense, simple transition and puck possession while learning to play on the left. I mean, the things I am talking about are the exact question marks you have when changing a kid to his off wing.

If we're talking about Sprong, I would say he's a better fit replacing Dupuis with Sid and Hornqvist where we can make better use of adding a skilled shooter.

I hope Sprong gets a chance in both of those spots. But out of the two, I think Plotnikov is a better fit for his line than Dupuis is for his.

I'd worry about any defensive miscues that he MAY have once they aren't second to last in the NHL in scoring.

I don't really care if he is put with Malkin or Crosby. I just think he should be tried in the top 6 before anyone else. I think Dupuis is more deserving of a top 6 spot than Plotnikov, too, though I agree Crosby-Hornqvist is not the ideal spot for him.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'd worry about any defensive miscues that he MAY have once they aren't second to last in the NHL in scoring.

I don't really care if he is put with Malkin or Crosby. I just think he should be tried in the top 6 before anyone else. I think Dupuis is more deserving of a top 6 spot than Plotnikov, too, though I agree Crosby-Hornqvist is not the ideal spot for him.

I would start by giving Geno and Kessel a safe 3rd wheel before worrying about the offense they get from him.

Plots isn't ideal there. Neither is Dupuis in his spot. I wish Sprong was in the top 6 too. But I don't think Geno and Kessel's LW is a good spot for him honestly. Again, its worth trying. But I would certainly try him with Sid and Horny first. I really hope Bennett gets tried on Geno and Kessel's LW when he's back.

 

[LetangyBarbecue]

Ibar is on fire!!!

The sad thing is, this happening is not a completely ridiculous thought if we are considering this organization

I'd definitely jump off the liberty bridge

 

[Shrimper]

 

[Pancakes]

I think Plotnikov might be able to work on that line. The guy has great vision and has made some very nice passes. He probably deserves a few more assists/goals than he has. Just hasn't had puck luck.

One thing that worries me about the whole Johnston debacle is all these struggling players will get given the boot by the team. Perron and Plotnikov could be so much more with the right coach. I'm not prepared to give up on those guys yet.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've been pretty satisfied with Plotnikov's play so far tbh. I think he's a solid contributor to our 3rd line, and if our 3rd line is Plotnikov-Bonino-Sprong/Bennett next year, we'll be in a very good position. Him not being a top-6 forward doesn't mean he's bad, but I really like him as a gritty 3rd line winger.

 

[joeyjake5]

While I absolutely agree with you, you have to take into account that its a different era.

In the 84-85 season, the highest scoring team had over 400 goals. The LOWEST scoring team had 253 goals. Last season, the highest scoring team had 260 goals.

Now, sure, some of that can be attributed to the fact that there are less one dimensional 40 goal guys. But I think the larger portion of that is .. the game is just different. In its current state (dead puck, clutch and grab), no team will ever score 400 goals again. It just wont happen. Not to mention coaching schemes are way more involved.

I also think that players, particularly in North America, are groomed to be better "overall players" as opposed to one dimensional.

Its goalie equipment plain and simple. All goalies are now the size of the Micheln man. Look at film of Tom Barrasso compared to MAF. Barrasso had at least 15 pounds on MAF but with Maf's oversized equipment, MAF looks like he has about 50 pounds on TB. You want more scoring, just reduce the size of equipment.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's a combination of a lot of things, as Mtl said earlier. Overcoaching, systems, obstruction, ******** refs, players simply getting bigger, better and faster on all lines, and of course goaltending equipment getting huge. It all factors in. It's just that you can't control how good players have gotten, really. You can control the rest.

As I've very often said and will continue to say... it can all start loosening up by simply ENFORCING THE EXISTING RULES CONSISTENTLY. Seems commonsense. But this is the NHL. There are, like... unwritten codes, blacklists and this general crazy idea that refs are PART of the game and not simply neutral enforcers of the rules.

 

[joeyjake5]

I will say this about Gretzky, Lemy, Sid and Ovie and only because of the size of today's goalie equipment. If Gretz and Lemy were playing today, their point totals would be down anywhere from 10 to 20%. And if Sid or Ovie were playing back then, their point totals would be up by 10 to 20%. Its goalie equipment. The best goalie since 1970 was the dominator and no one is even close. And he looked like a string bean. He did not use oversized equipment like Lundquist, Quicks etc.

 

[DoktorZaius]

I will say this about Gretzky, Lemy, Sid and Ovie and only because of the size of today's goalie equipment. If Gretz and Lemy were playing today, their point totals would be down anywhere from 10 to 20%. And if Sid or Ovie were playing back then, their point totals would be up by 10 to 20%. Its goalie equipment. The best goalie since 1970 was the dominator and no one is even close. And he looked like a string bean. He did not use oversized equipment like Lundquist, Quicks etc.

Not just equipment, but stand-up vs butterfly. Goalies are a lot more solid in every way these days. Also I think down 10-20% is a conservative guess -- I'd expect more like 30-40%.

 

[joeyjake5]

I beg to differ. Today's goalie just fills the net. They essentially only have to protect 24sq. ft. The bigger goalie equipment lets them fill up maybe 2 to 3 sq. ft. more of net. and that's a big advantage and has nothing to do with talent or with reflexes. Just fill the net and don't lose the net.

If you look at today's goalies their shoulder pads are way, way oversized and their hip pads make these goalies look like they have the biggest ***** in the world.

 

[HoRneR814]

Beau needs to come back ASAP!!! His time to shine is now! Beau - Malkin - Kessel

 

[Jacob]

I've been pretty satisfied with Plotnikov's play so far tbh. I think he's a solid contributor to our 3rd line, and if our 3rd line is Plotnikov-Bonino-Sprong/Bennett next year, we'll be in a very good position. Him not being a top-6 forward doesn't mean he's bad, but I really like him as a gritty 3rd line winger.

I think he's been underwhelming since the regular season started, but not a negative contributor or anything. He seems like he's still finding his way a little bit, like sometimes holding onto the puck for too long or making low-percentage plays in grey areas. Also his skating is certainly NHL quality but he gets caught standing still a lot, probably over-thinking the Xs and Os.

 

[td_ice]

I beg to differ. Today's goalie just fills the net. They essentially only have to protect 24sq. ft. The bigger goalie equipment lets them fill up maybe 2 to 3 sq. ft. more of net. and that's a big advantage and has nothing to do with talent or with reflexes. Just fill the net and don't lose the net.

If you look at today's goalies their shoulder pads are way, way oversized and their hip pads make these goalies look like they have the biggest ***** in the world.

Not only the goalies, but the way defensemen can skate in the league as a whole, is at such a greater level now, than back in the day.

 

[Coastal Kev]

When Mario came back in 2000 he was asked about what has changed since left. He said " well there is almost no available net to shoot at". If the greastest hockey player ever couldn't see any net 15 years ago when goalies & their equipment was smaller than they are today, how does anyone see any net in 2015?

 

[billybudd]

I think he's been underwhelming since the regular season started, but not a negative contributor or anything. He seems like he's still finding his way a little bit, like sometimes holding onto the puck for too long or making low-percentage plays in grey areas. Also his skating is certainly NHL quality but he gets caught standing still a lot, probably over-thinking the Xs and Os.

That's the problem I see with him. He's thinking instead of just acting, which costs him more seconds than he has. It'll probably go away, but there's no way to rush it into going away and I'm skeptical that playing with Malkin and Kessel is exactly what he needs at the moment. Probably only temporary anyway as Fehr looks set to step into the last left wing spot on the top two lines as soon as he's eligible.

But no, he's not a "negative" contributor that could be argued to be losing us games (Scuderi, Perron).