Post-Game Talk: Stars 4, Pens 1 - The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same

[CanadianPensFan1]

Well, that was kinda the point I was making.

The NHL used to be LITTERED with one-dimensional 40-goal scorers. Virtually all 21 teams had one in the 80's.

Personally, I think guys who can score goals need to be cut WAY MORE slack. Look at soccer. Strikers are by and large prima donnas who have nowhere near the same work rate as the rest of the team. And yet, they make all the money and get all the glory. Why? Because the game needs goals and they are hard to come by.

If the NHL continues down the current road, we should start to cherish 40-goal-scorers way more than we do now.

Joel Quenneville gets it. He demands two-way play from everybody, except Kane. He makes an exception for a truly special offensive talent.

That's how it should be. Not all players are created equally.

While I absolutely agree with you, you have to take into account that its a different era.

In the 84-85 season, the highest scoring team had over 400 goals. The LOWEST scoring team had 253 goals. Last season, the highest scoring team had 260 goals.

Now, sure, some of that can be attributed to the fact that there are less one dimensional 40 goal guys. But I think the larger portion of that is .. the game is just different. In its current state (dead puck, clutch and grab), no team will ever score 400 goals again. It just wont happen. Not to mention coaching schemes are way more involved.

I also think that players, particularly in North America, are groomed to be better "overall players" as opposed to one dimensional.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This team isn't going anywhere if Perron isn't contributing to the top 6. Put him back with Sid and Horny and let him figure it out.

I've wanted accountability for years. Perron has earned a demotion. Now let him earn a promotion. Have a good couple of shifts, let him move up to see if he can build on it.

 

[Old Gregg]

I've wanted accountability for years. Perron has earned a demotion. Now let him earn a promotion. Have a good couple of shifts, let him move up to see if he can build on it.

I agree but they need to hold everybody accountable if they want to be taken seriously.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I agree but they need to hold everybody accountable if they want to be taken seriously.

Kunitz got demoted too, right? And Scuds?

 

[pistolpete11]

Happy to see the shake up, but I'm not sure it is getting to the root of the problem. Maybe it will motivate everyone for a couple of games, but I think there are bigger issues.

Also, what has Plotnikov done to earn a job on Malkin's line? I know the simple answer is Kunitz and Perron have just been that bad, but he hasn't impressed me at all. I'd throw Sprong in there. I know he's a RW, but I'll live with any mistakes he makes in the defensive zone to get his energy, speed, and offensive instincts in there.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Happy to see the shake up, but I'm not sure it is getting to the root of the problem. Maybe it will motivate everyone for a couple of games, but I think there are bigger issues.

Also, what has Plotnikov done to earn a job on Malkin's line? I know the simple answer is Kunitz and Perron have just been that bad, but he hasn't impressed me at all. I'd throw Sprong in there. I know he's a RW, but I'll live with any mistakes he makes in the defensive zone to get his energy, speed, and offensive instincts in there.

Well, Plots is a natural LW. So it makes more sense to put him in his natural position than to put Sprong on his off wing.

While Plots hasnt overly impressed me, he hasnt done anything so awful to deserve a demotion. He's been fine .. which is a lot considering the dumpster fire that is the Pens so far this season.

I say give Plots a shot on the 2nd line with Geno and Kessel. If it doesnt work after 2 or 3 games, swap in someone else. It cant get much worse than it is now so meh.

 

[GreatjonUmber]

Missed the game. Can someone tell me what the lines that were used were? The ones that were used for the most part anyway.

 

[pistolpete11]

Well, Plots is a natural LW. So it makes more sense to put him in his natural position than to put Sprong on his off wing.

While Plots hasnt overly impressed me, he hasnt done anything so awful to deserve a demotion. He's been fine .. which is a lot considering the dumpster fire that is the Pens so far this season.

I say give Plots a shot on the 2nd line with Geno and Kessel. If it doesnt work after 2 or 3 games, swap in someone else. It cant get much worse than it is now so meh.

He hasn't done anything to deserve a demotion, but he hasn't done anything to deserve a promotion either (besides being better than Kunitz and Perron which is not saying much). I think Sprong has deserved a shot in the top 6, even if it means playing his off wing.

Sprong - Malkin - Kessel
Dupuis - Crosby - Hornqvist
Plotnikov - Bonino - Kunitz/Perron/Rust
Kunitz/Perron/Rust - Cullen - Kunitz/Perron/Rust

Make Kunitz and Perron earn their spot on the LW.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

He hasn't done anything to deserve a demotion, but he hasn't done anything to deserve a promotion either (besides being better than Kunitz and Perron which is not saying much). I think Sprong has deserved a shot in the top 6, even if it means playing his off wing.

Sprong - Malkin - Kessel
Dupuis - Crosby - Hornqvist
Plotnikov - Bonino - Kunitz/Perron/Rust
Kunitz/Perron/Rust - Cullen - Kunitz/Perron/Rust

Make Kunitz and Perron earn their spot on the LW.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. If plots works, great for the team. If not, try spring there. Sprong should be at least on the third line anyway, not the fourth.

Kunitz has earned his spot on the fourth line. I think, his continuing slow play with more limited ice time, could possibly help him. I mean, ****, could it get worse?

As for perron, he hasn't impressed me either (no one really has so far) his bone headed play last night was big but it was the final act of stupidity that came after two other ones so whatever.

I'm while he hasn't earned it this season, get him back on the first line with sod and horns. That line was dynamite last season ..before the whole team went to *******. If it doesn't work ... again, it really can't get much worse. So we will lose every game 5-0 instead of 4-1? Meh.

At the end of the day, this is all moot anyway. The system needs to be changed.

 

[billybudd]

Bombulie is a fan, I know he's just as angry as we are right now.

Happy to see the shake up, but I'm not sure it is getting to the root of the problem. Maybe it will motivate everyone for a couple of games, but I think there are bigger issues.

Also, what has Plotnikov done to earn a job on Malkin's line? I know the simple answer is Kunitz and Perron have just been that bad, but he hasn't impressed me at all. I'd throw Sprong in there. I know he's a RW, but I'll live with any mistakes he makes in the defensive zone to get his energy, speed, and offensive instincts in there.

Bombulie's latest.

http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice/2015/10/23/line-changes/#axzz3pQADAs00

He should call this blog the ten bullet points of pure wisdom.

Far as Plotnikov and Sprong are concerned, he said this

3. The biggest complaint with the new combinations that I’ve seen on Twitter has to do with Sprong. Why not try Sprong in the top six? I don’t think that’s a great idea. Sprong said he’s comfortable on the left side, but putting an 18-year-old on his off wing is a recipe for zone-exit disaster. Plus, there’s a very real chance Crosby or Malkin would overcompensate for having Sprong on their line by focusing on defense. They do that sometimes. It’s an admirable quality in a lot of cases, one many star player don’t have. But it’s not what this team needs right now.

4. It’s not like Sprong can’t score on the third line. Bonino is a good, skilled centerman for him to work with.

5. Plotnikov hasn’t really done anything to earn a top-six spot. His No. 1 qualification for the job is that he’s not Kunitz or Perron. That’s enough for now.

I'd recommend giving the trib some click revenue and reading the rest of this. Worthwhile stuff, all ten points. Blogs like this were why I was so happy the trib hired the guy.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Plots being a LW is enough to try him by default. I'm really not impressed with him at all so far but I think there's plenty of time before declaring that he can't produce on a top line.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Plots being a LW is enough to try him by default. I'm really not impressed with him at all so far but I think there's plenty of time before declaring that he can't produce on a top line.

This.

He may be a total bust. He may end up as a 20g guy. It's been 7 games so we have no idea.

Try him all over the place. See what works. He's here ..let's see what we got.

 

[Shady Machine]

Bombulie's latest.

http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice/2015/10/23/line-changes/#axzz3pQADAs00

He should call this blog the ten bullet points of pure wisdom.

Far as Plotnikov and Sprong are concerned, he said this



I'd recommend giving the trib some click revenue and reading the rest of this. Worthwhile stuff, all ten points. Blogs like this were why I was so happy the trib hired the guy.

Yup great stuff. I look forward to listening to his thoughts on Trib radio segment. Fortunately, that moron Tim Benz isn't on the weekly Pens round tables so it's a good listen.

 

[Shady Machine]

This.

He may be a total bust. He may end up as a 20g guy. It's been 7 games so we have no idea.

Try him all over the place. See what works. He's here ..let's see what we got.

And he's playing his butt off most shifts and not killing plays. He has struggled with finishing chances and bouncing pucks off his stick, but with Malkin-Kessel the message should be simple "Bust balls and get to the net".

 

[Beauner]

And he's playing his butt off most shifts and not killing plays. He has struggled with finishing chances and bouncing pucks off his stick, but with Malkin-Kessel the message should be simple "Bust balls and get to the net".

He has nice touch on passes too, his line each night seems to make some pretty plays in the o zone. I just don't know what MJ is seeing out of him that makes him think he's struggling. What was he expecting, really? If he was amazing he would've been drafted. For a FA out of Russia I think he's been solid. Definitely a useful player. I think he just needs some consistent playing time and time, period, to get comfortable in the NHL and the style of play

 

[MrBurghundy]

And he's playing his butt off most shifts and not killing plays. He has struggled with finishing chances and bouncing pucks off his stick, but with Malkin-Kessel the message should be simple "Bust balls and get to the net".

One thing he needs to start doing is laying the body a little bit more. He's big and strong enough to be a more impactful physical presence than he's been thus far.

 

[ETA]

Bombulie for coach...?

 

[ETA]

BTW - 2 games for Demers...

 

[Ogrezilla]

One thing he needs to start doing is laying the body a little bit more. He's big and strong enough to be a more impactful physical presence than he's been thus far.

Plots has to be half scared to touch anybody for fear of getting phantom calls already.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Plots has to be half scared to touch anybody for fear of getting phantom calls already.

Defiantly one thing I've noticed about Plots so far... the NHL refs HATE him. No calls for penalties on him, call him for ticky tacky/phantom calls.

He has gotten a little better and more confident every game though.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Defiantly one thing I've noticed about Plots so far... the NHL refs HATE him. No calls for penalties on him, call him for ticky tacky/phantom calls.

He has gotten a little better and more confident every game though.

I like that with Geno and Kessel he should be able to focus on just playing simple possession hockey and letting them do the skill stuff. Once he gets more comfortable he can add more finesse to his game.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I like that with Geno and Kessel he should be able to focus on just playing simple possession hockey and letting them do the skill stuff. Once he gets more comfortable he can add more finesse to his game.

As long as he gets more than a period there, Plots will work into that spot just fine. And yah, he doesn't need to do anything fancy except cover his point on D and play between the net and corners in the O zone.

I think these line combos are a hell of a lot better, but sending out Scuds or Lovejoy behind the top 6 constantly is a big big problem.

What happened to the mandate to play younger on the blue line?

 

[DoktorZaius]

There's no way Plots is a bust, it's just a question of what his skill-cap is. And as has been said, that remains to be seen. There's no way he's even close to fully comfortable in this league and on this continent yet.

Defiantly one thing I've noticed about Plots so far... the NHL refs HATE him. No calls for penalties on him, call him for ticky tacky/phantom calls.

He has gotten a little better and more confident every game though.

This time a million. He's been jobbed at least 5 times this season with no calls.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I have a totally different approach as to why goal scoring is down. I think people are being way too simplistic by saying that the return of clutching and grabbing is at fault.

I don't think it's any more simple than the fact that most bottom sixes in the League are no longer comprised of trash hockey players that can be taken advantage of by top six forwards. Add to that the ridiculous goalie equipment along with the systematic approach to defense that most coaches use - aided by years worth of tape study - and it's really not that hard to explain.

Are Clutterbuck-Czikas-Martin going to outskill and outproduce Sid's line? No, but they can more than keep up, and being able to keep up means Sid isn't going to have a ton of time and/or space to do what he does best. There are exceptions, but I see a lot of teams no longer afraid of tossing out their 4th lines against the opponent's top line.

25-30 years ago, the guys who could really skate always stood out. Today, it's the guys who can't who stick out like sore thumbs. Paul Coffey and Mike Gartner for example, skated like the players of today, which is why (back then at least) it looked almost like magic. Plotnikov would have fit in just fine all those years ago. Today, he barely looks like an NHL player, much less a top six forward.

When I was a kid, I'd watch the NHL highlights on CTV, and I could swear on 3/4 of Jari Kurri's and Brett Hull's one timer goals, the nearest defender would be about 10 feet away from them. I mean I was only around 10 years old and my first thought would always be "Someone should really cover that guy..." Today, there's barely any room to breath.

Back then, there was no such thing as a Victor Hedman who stands as tall as an Ent but can skate like Mats Naslund. The League is littered with guys like that.

Anyone with Gamecenter, I urge you go into the vaults and watch some classic games from the early 80's. As far as entertainment is concerned, you can't beat that era, but the reason it was so entertaining wasn't because the players were better, but because the hockey was sloppy as ****. It was pure pond hockey with next to no structure, as if all the players simply showed up to the rink with no plan and just went out there and played like it was a pickup game.

Another thing to note back then: "Bottom pairing" d-men could barely pivot and crossover on their "weak" side. It's hilarious to watch as they're feasted on by the better players.

The salary cap has evened a lot of stuff out, and the only thing that'll tip the scales in favor of the talented players is actually expansion. Add two more teams, and you'll see the game open up again.

 

[Al Smith]

Defiantly one thing I've noticed about Plots so far... the NHL refs HATE him. No calls for penalties on him, call him for ticky tacky/phantom calls.

He has gotten a little better and more confident every game though.

They don't hate him. They're just going to screw new Russians/eastern Europeans. They've done it since Russians started playing here. In fact they did it as far back as the 8 games Dynamo and the Red Army played here in the '70s (old-timers have to remember the somewhat embarassing mugging the Flyers put on the Russkies). Malkin's dealt with it for years, as did Jagr (although not so much now that he's been in the league 20+ years).

Anyway, I think Plots has been good enough to not have been scratched, especially after the ridiculous non-hook, and not to have been demoted to the 4th line. He at least deserves to stay on the third line and maybe get a shot on the top two lines.