Post-Game Talk: Stars 4, Pens 1 - The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same
- Thread starter KIRK
- Start date
Zen Arcade
Bigger than Kiss
I've been satisfied with Plotnikov so far, he's made some nice plays and does what needs to be done to be successful and contribute. I think the points will come, how many, I'm not sure. We're seeing the feeling out process right now, but that was to be expected. The team being a mess isn't exactly doing his transition any favors.
I expected him to be more of a solid third liner than anything else, so maybe my expectations were lower.
I expected him to be more of a solid third liner than anything else, so maybe my expectations were lower.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 76,566
- 21,102
Yeah I like what I've seen from Plotnikov so far. Big, good along the boards, goes to the net, has some solid offensive instincts.
Interested to see what he can do as the big gritty complement opposite Kessel. Hornqvist on his other side was a bad idea because they were too similar, but I thought he looked good with Beau.
Interested to see what he can do as the big gritty complement opposite Kessel. Hornqvist on his other side was a bad idea because they were too similar, but I thought he looked good with Beau.
radapex
Registered User
They've already reduced the size of almost everything to the same as, or small than, they were in the 80s. Blockers, trappers, and pads are all smaller. They could stand to trim the chest protector and pants a little, but I doubt that's going to have much effect. The key differences between the 80s and now are: (a) the game was focused on offense in the 80s but is focused on defense now, and (b) goalies are much, much bigger now. The average goalie in the NHL today is 6'2" 201lbs. If you go back 30 years, Barrasso was the only goalie above that mark.
radapex
Registered User
Goalie equipment in 2000 was bigger than it is now. The NHL has put regulations in place over the last 3-4 years that have shrunk blockers, trappers, and leg pads. And once they figure out a way to shrink chest/shoulder pads and pants while keeping the goalies safe (Remember: thanks to composite sticks, everybody in the NHL shoots 90+ mph nowadays) they'll do that too.
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
Yeah, I'm satisfied with his play as well. I don't get why HE was singled out in the last game and wound up bounced to the fourth line, but now he's back up on Line 2 and that's a good thing.
Plotnikov has something in his game a lot of other players on our team do not have...consistent effort.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
No kidding. I was rewatching some of the 1992 highlights last Christmas and watching those blueliners skate was painful. It was like a video feed lagging, but in real time.
plaidchuck
Registered User
What's really amazing is how much they scored even with the two line pass rule. Imagine the points they could have put up if they could've cherry picked.
Mario did more than his fair share of cherry picking, even with the two-line pass rule in effect. But yeah, the cherry picking would have been way more frequent without the rule.
Biggest difference is goaltenders are much better now, not bigger. Even in my beer leagues I had to switch to smaller pads cos when ingot new ones there were only the new NHL (smaller) width.
Goalies used to be isolated, left alone, ignored. Coaches didn't know how to train them. Now they are actually trained in great detail by specialists. A whole industry. The Gs we saw when Mario started wouldn't make college teams now. Truly.
They are BETTER not bigger.
Goalies used to be isolated, left alone, ignored. Coaches didn't know how to train them. Now they are actually trained in great detail by specialists. A whole industry. The Gs we saw when Mario started wouldn't make college teams now. Truly.
They are BETTER not bigger.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
Their upper bodies are absolutely broader than they used to be. Everything you said is true too though. Goalies are much better than they used to be simply because they are better trained. I think it was Quick who did the article about 90% of a save happening before a shot is taken.
radapex
Registered User
It was. Every time they've reduced the size of a piece of goalie equipment it was met with a reaction of "now we'll see scoring go up!". And scoring would go up... for 2 weeks, then the goalies have adjusted to the change. They are simply too good, and the position is too important to be ignored. There's a reason every team but the Pens has had a dedicated goalie coach for about 10 years; there are some teams with two, and I've even seen some with three on staff - though I'm sure those are just listing their developmental (AHL/ECHL) coach on the coaching staff.
plaidchuck
Registered User
Quick needs to get back to that, because he's been trash for two years, even when they won the cup.
Asuna
Lvl 94 Sub-Leader
2013-2014: GAA - 2.07 SV% - .915
2014-2015: GAA - 2.16 SV% - .918
Hardly trash numbers.
plaidchuck
Registered User
A big drop from where he was though, and he was pretty bad during their last cup run.
Asuna
Lvl 94 Sub-Leader
Good enough to help win them the cup, broski.
GAA - 2.58 SV% - .911
Pedestrian numbers for sure, but not 'bad'.
I'm not sure who can consistently put up a .944 SV% in the playoffs.
Yeah, I will agree on the C/As, tough to regulate cos they're so subject to the size of the frames of the Gs, and some of these athletes are ginormous compared to years by. When you have a 6'5" goalie, you can make sure his gloves and pads subscribe to regulated widths and so on, but those CAs have not been managed as easily...
Plus, to be sure, these guys cheat any way they can with additional pieces sewn into the pads especially the GA. Remember Garth Snow? LOL, embarrassing.
I recall getting the smallest CA I could find (Vaughn) cos I needed smaller fit around the waist to help my rotational ability....and the damn thing had these giant friggin WINGS on the shoulders that were so big they interfered with my peripheral vision.
THAT is an example of something on the CAs they should definitely look at. But the rest of the stuff...is smaller.
Plus, to be sure, these guys cheat any way they can with additional pieces sewn into the pads especially the GA. Remember Garth Snow? LOL, embarrassing.
I recall getting the smallest CA I could find (Vaughn) cos I needed smaller fit around the waist to help my rotational ability....and the damn thing had these giant friggin WINGS on the shoulders that were so big they interfered with my peripheral vision.
THAT is an example of something on the CAs they should definitely look at. But the rest of the stuff...is smaller.
billybudd
Registered User
- Feb 1, 2012
- 22,049
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Not that goaltending is even the number 1 problem in terms of scoring right now, in my opinion, but chest protectors have absolutely ballooned since 2000. Giguere's infamous "Michelin Man" chest protector from his Vezina year is nowhere near as large as Flower's, let alone Lundqvist's or Mason's. What this does is majorly cuts down on goals that go in high or off of screens or deflections, while eliminating the 6 and 7 holes almost completely no matter what the goalie's posture is.
Of course, it's tricky to reduce the size on that without substantial data that indicates you're not impacting safety. If one guy takes a puck to the chest wrong and pulls a Fischer or even a Pronger, the NHL is probably facing a major lawsuit, which is probably why that went largely unregulated and got out of control in the first place.
radapex
Registered User
There's also the insurance factor. If you can't prove that a reduction is size provides the same level of protection, then your insurance premiums are going to go up as it becomes more likely that goalies get hurt.
In my opinion, they could certainly afford to shade a few inches off the the side of the chest/arm protectors and pants. I'm just not sure that it's going to make that significant of a difference because of how physically large so many goalies are today. I mean, look at the size of some of these guys...
- Robin Lehner, BUF - 6'5", 240lbs
- Scott Darling, CHI - 6'6", 232lbs
- Anders Nilsson, EDM - 6'5", 229lbs
- Thomas Greiss, NYI - 6'1", 228lbs
- Andrew Hammond, OTT - 6'1", 220lbs
- Frederik Andersen, ANA - 6'4", 220lbs (he's slimmed down; IIRC he was listed at 245lbs last season)
- Jonathan Quick, LAK - 6'1", 220lbs
- Jimmy Howard, DET - 6'1" 218lbs
- Braden Holby, WSH - 6'2", 217lbs
- Pekka Rinne, NSH - 6'5", 217lbs
To put this all in context, Tom Barrasso was the biggest goalie in the NHL 30 years ago at 6'3" 210lbs. He was one of only two goalies bigger than today's average of 6'2" 201lbs, the other being Daren Puppa (6'4" 205lbs). There are 20 goalies in the NHL this season that are physically bigger than Barrasso.
I'm gonna have to disagree here..
The goalie pads are a major issue. Look at Tuuka Rask - he looks like a yoga instructor without goalie pads on.
Put some goalie pads on this guy.. and he looks like a linebacker.
That picture is definite proof and MAF is no giant. Its goalie equipment first why scoring is down and second, I forget who came out with it first, but now each team has anywhere from 3-5 very good Ds and twenty years ago each team was lucky to have 2 good Ds.
