Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Do Make Say Think]

If we are going to disagree about the difference between a personal connection to actual people and a fan's connection to fictional characters then this discussion is going to go around in circles.

Did you see who you are arguing with? They are the people who think having women in WWII video games is disrespecting veterans.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

If we are going to disagree about the difference between a personal connection to actual people and a fan's connection to fictional characters then this discussion is going to go around in circles.

I think we are disagreeing as to the degree of the emotional connection, not that none exists. Seeing as how you initially brought up emotional connections...does it not follow that a discussion concerning it is valid and not going round and round?

Did you see who you are arguing with? They are the people who think having women in WWII video games is disrespecting veterans.

Umm. I do?

Or are you just kind of lumping me in with I presume at least one poster?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I literally said we can't agree on the difference (as in the degree) which is fundamental to the conversation moving forward.

Which is par for the course, unfortunately.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Other than the fact these are Ghost replies...

I literally said we can't agree on the difference (as in the degree) which is fundamental to the conversation moving forward.

Which is par for the course, unfortunately.

Let's look closer at the above statement.

I will contend there is a major difference between an actor who actually knows all these people very well and a fan who has a connection to these people because they are featured in a piece of media they love. And that is where there is a huge distinction and why my issue lies with fans for feeling they were owed this reunion and it not being provided is a knock on the new trilogy for not accommodating them.

So you were the first to bring it up about there being a MAJOR difference. Then when we questioned whether it was a MAJOR difference your following reply appears to say that this cannot be questioned. This reply is not the same as before.

If we are going to disagree about the difference between a personal connection to actual people and a fan's connection to fictional characters then this discussion is going to go around in circles.

Lets' try plugging in another comparison and see how the post comprehension works.

If we are going to disagree about the difference between a banana and a steak then this discussion is going to go around in circles.

So no, you literally did not say that. You made a statement "Major Difference." When questioned on that statement you shut down and claimed something completely different and even attached a little personal dig to the post.

You are really making our point.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I don't see the point in going back and forth when the disagreement can't even really be proven. I don't see how you can demonstrate to me that they are similar enough so I don't see how the conversation moves forward.

Also I am talking not about fans being sad because they didn't get a fun fanservicy moment but fans being frustrated with the writers/directors and thinking they "deserved better" because they didn't get a fun fanservicy moment. That's the distinction. If Mark felt owed that then I would say he is wrong as well.

 

[Osprey]

Did you see who you are arguing with? They are the people who think having women in WWII video games is disrespecting veterans.

I never said anything like that. It's ironic that would so badly misrepresent an argument on the topic of historical accuracy, though.

The fact you as a fan didn't get a scene with all of them together and you think it is a reason to be upset at Disney/Kennedy/whoever comes across to me as entitlement and has no correlation with the actual quality of the movie.

That's not really an accurate characterization of either of our arguments. I, for one, stopped being upset and entitled around the time of the prequels. You can be critical without being upset.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I never said anything like that. It's ironic that would so badly misrepresent an argument on the topic of historical accuracy, though.



That's not really an accurate characterization of either of our arguments. I, for one, stopped being upset and entitled around the time of the prequels. You can be critical without being upset.

I was saying you in a general sense.

 

[Osprey]

I was saying you in a general sense.

In all honesty, that's the problem. You're arguing with us, but generalizing so that you can use the feelings and motivations of the truly upset fans to make your counter argument. It'd be nice if you wouldn't do that so much. It's not much appreciated to be implicitly lumped in with others (even if you walk it back later), and it doesn't do you much of a favor, either. If you have to misrepresent what was said or drag what others said or feel in to make a counter argument, it suggests that there wasn't much wrong with what was actually said.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

In all honesty, that's the problem. You're arguing with us, but generalizing so that you can use the feelings and motivations of the truly upset fans to make your counter argument. It'd be nice if you wouldn't do that so much. It's not much appreciated to be implicitly lumped in with others (even if you walk it back later), and it doesn't do you much of a favor, either. If you have to misrepresent what was said or drag what others said or feel in to make a counter argument, it suggests that there wasn't much wrong with what was actually said.

No, that isn't what I am doing (and I am going to completely disagree with your framing of my arguments on the subject of Star Wars in general).

When I say in a general sense I am not saying "you and all these people." I mean it as in "whoever holds this view related to the tweet we are arguing about."

 

[bleedblue1223]

All JJ or Rian had to do was a flashback scene when Ben was going off with Luke that included Han and Leia. It could've shown how Ben was already showing signs of dark side at that time, how it was tearing Han and Leia apart, and how Luke was over-confident in bringing Ben back to the light. Simple reunion scene that actually assists the plot and isn't bad fan service.

KK not having a Feige role for the new trilogy was a mistake.

 

[Osprey]

No, that isn't what I am doing (and I am going to completely disagree with your framing of my arguments on the subject of Star Wars in general).

When I say in a general sense I am not saying "you and all these people." I mean it as in "whoever holds this view related to the tweet we are arguing about."

Yes, that's what I took you to mean and what I was referring to.

Anyways, it's kind of funny that you and I squabble here, but seem a lot more on the same page with GoT (I loved your AoE comment). It's refreshing to not have to brace myself that what you're about to say is going to provoke me to respond and I imagine that it's the same with me to you. I guess that, like me, you're a lot less attached to GoT than Star Wars and less opinionated and willing to argue about it.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Yes, that's what I took you to mean and what I was referring to.

Anyways, it's kind of funny that you and I squabble here, but seem a lot more on the same page with GoT (I loved your AoE comment). It's refreshing to not have to brace myself that what you're about to say is going to provoke me to respond and I imagine that it's the same with me to you. I guess that, like me, you're a lot less attached to GoT than Star Wars and less opinionated and willing to argue about it.

I think your interpretation simplifies things considerably and I hope I can clear this up.

I have been a huge Star Wars fan since I saw the box VHS set (prior to all the changes) in the 90s, but that didn't stop me from having a critical eye on the PT when necessary. I do not think the ST is perfect, but I think it has worked in many respects and for me personally the story resonates with me. I started the ASOIAF series in the early 2010s (2012 I think) so my experience with it is much more recent, but I fell in love with it and have a similar (possibly/probably not as intense) emotional stake in it. But Game of Thrones are Star Wars are different types of fiction, which means that I watch them differently and have different expectations (not higher or lower, different) of the two. With Game of Thrones I look for solid political intrigue and solid characterization that is developed from the politics from episode to episode and season to season. With roughly 10 hours of show per season there is a greater emphasis on a "slow burn" because you have a lot more to set up and pay off later. Star Wars to me has always been about being a space drama that hits you much faster because each trilogy is only three movies and each movie must hold up in less than two hours. I feel like in recent seasons Game of Thrones has had issues with their characters and how they fit in a world that has been built up over the course of the last decade (and tens of hours of content in that time), and in the last season it has been demonstrated that the "slow burn" and long-term satisfaction has been cast aside for plot points and shifting characters to whatever is convenient to get to the final ending. With Star Wars I feel like I have gotten a satisfactory space drama and I have been emotionally engaged the last two movies similarly to how I was engaged in the OT.

We can differ as to what we expect (and not in terms of quality but of what kind of movie we are getting out of it), but the emotional attachment isn't a factor to the degree that you may interpret from my posts.

 

[K Fleur]

How many Star Wars movies are there now? 10?

I’ve seen them all except for the Han Solo prequel. Only 3 of them are movies I’d consider good, one of those being great.

An Emperor retcon 40 years later is not gonna bump that number of good movies up to 4 for me

 

[cupcrazyman]

That look on everyones face when they realize Palpatine is back

That look on Palpatines face when he realizes Luke Skywalker is back

 

[MadDevil]

We should also keep in mind that it's Abrams and his mystery box, so Palpatine's laugh (which I believe they said is stock audio) doesn't necessarily mean Palpatine is actually back.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

We should also keep in mind that it's Abrams and his mystery box, so Palpatine's laugh (which I believe they said is stock audio) doesn't necessarily mean Palpatine is actually back.

He’ll be back in some way or another, though. You don’t just throw that in there and not include him in the storyline.

 

[Osprey]

We can differ as to what we expect (and not in terms of quality but of what kind of movie we are getting out of it), but the emotional attachment isn't a factor to the degree that you may interpret from my posts.

Ok, thanks for the correction. I've been into Star Wars since 1980 (I even had 'Empire' bed sheets, Ewok books and numerous action figures) and started watching GoT in 2015 (and have never read the books). That's nearly 40 years vs 4 years, so there's a huge difference between my attachment to and familiarity with the two. I thought that it might be similar with you, since we both seem more willing to argue SW to death than GoT.

 

[Pilky01]

So which trilogy is getting made? Rian Johnson's or the GOT guys?

A real Sophie's choice.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

So which trilogy is getting made? Rian Johnson's or the GOT guys?

A real Sophie's choice.

Pretty sure it’s the GOT guys.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

We should also keep in mind that it's Abrams and his mystery box, so Palpatine's laugh (which I believe they said is stock audio) doesn't necessarily mean Palpatine is actually back.

I would think it would be really cool to see a dark side version of a force ghost. Just as long as they don't reincarnate him in some way.

 

[bdub24]

I didn't mind The Force Awakens, because it was an entertaining movie and it was great to see old faces return. It had the swashbuckling / space western feel that made the first two original films so much fun. There was a lot of story that I liked in The Last Jedi (Luke now a recluse and lost his passion). But the movie itself the set ups and payoffs. Yeah. Not a fan of Rian Johnson.

 

[MadDevil]

I would think it would be really cool to see a dark side version of a force ghost. Just as long as they don't reincarnate him in some way.

That reminded me of the rumor that both Revan and Bane were going to be in TCW, but then got cut. Bane did show up later in that Yoda arc though.



I wonder if they'd do something similar to this with the Emperor?

 

[sigma six]

It's time for a trilogy set in the Old Republic. The possibility of this based on rumors over the past month put a smile on my face.
There's a rich backstory to explore and the related PC games have already done so much of the work.

 

[The Shadow]

It's time for a trilogy set in the Old Republic. The possibility of this based on rumors over the past month put a smile on my face.
There's a rich backstory to explore and the related PC games have already done so much of the work.

I spent far too many hours playing KOTOR. Loved that game

 

[Tawnos]

It's time for a trilogy set in the Old Republic. The possibility of this based on rumors over the past month put a smile on my face.
There's a rich backstory to explore and the related PC games have already done so much of the work.

We already had a whole trilogy set in the Old Republic.