Stan Bowman thread (mod warning post 965)

[RememberTheRoar]

What did Zawaski specifically report in regards to people in the organization thinking their boss didn't get appropriate value for Jokiharju?

https://www.madhousepod.com/podcast...-to-sabres-for-alex-nylander-but-why-07092019

8:10 mark

“One of the sources I talked to today said ‘I don’t hate that we traded him, I just hate that the package in return was so small.’”

This was the day of the trade, and Zawaski is saying the source said “we” indicating it’s a member of the organization. Earlier in the podcast, he explained that his organization sources told him some were souring on Joki before the trade, but asked him not to report it (gave it to him off the record).

As you said, this organization doesn’t leak shit to anyone, but for some reason one or two people talk to this guy and make him the exception.

 

[x Tame Impala]

https://www.madhousepod.com/podcast...-to-sabres-for-alex-nylander-but-why-07092019

8:10 mark

“One of the sources I talked to today said ‘I don’t hate that we traded him, I just hate that the package in return was so small.’”

This was the day of the trade, and Zawaski is saying the source said “we” indicating it’s a member of the organization. Earlier in the podcast, he explained that his organization sources told him some were souring on Joki before the trade, but asked him not to report it (gave it to him off the record).

As you said, this organization doesn’t leak **** to anyone, but for some reason one or two people talk to this guy and make him the exception.

They asked him not to report it and he did it anyway? That’s not cool.

One or two guys leaking something isn’t solid enough for me to take what Zawaski says as gospel for me. I don’t expect everyone to share that opinion, but I will not be looking at Zawaski as an authoritative information provider the way the hockey world does with Bob McKenzie

 

[RememberTheRoar]

They asked him not to report it and he did it anyway? That’s not cool.

One or two guys leaking something isn’t solid enough for me to take what Zawaski says as gospel for me. I don’t expect everyone to share that opinion, but I will not be looking at Zawaski as an authoritative information provider the way the hockey world does with Bob McKenzie

Thats all fine, I’m not asking you to view it that way. You asked me why I mention Zawaski, and I explained it. I’m not his hype man, I don’t get a cut of his pay.

Also, he reported stuff about the reasoning behind the trade after the trade happened. The agreement he had with his source must have allowed him to do so, otherwise he wouldn’t have.

FWIW, I believe Zawaski has broken a hell of a lot more about the Hawks recently than McKenzie has. Not saying Zawaski is remotely in the same class as McKenzie overall, but sometimes a reporter is only as good as his sources, and that’s the case with these guys and the Hawks.

 

[nmgrbhfn]

Season three-quarters complete update:

GP W L OTL PTS GF GA

2018 - 2019
60 25 26 9 59 200 223

2019 - 2020
60 26 26 8 60 179 194

So the Hawks have improved one measly point through sixty games y - o - y. Although the GA are not exemplary, it did improve year over year. What happened? The GF fell off by 21 goals. No complicated explanations are necessary. The team may not have been literally built around Cat, but it did work out that the team was built with the expectation that he would perform to a certain level. How bad has he been compared to last year? He had 41 goals last year which prorates to 30 through 60 games. He has 14 through 60 this year. So the Hawks are light 16 goals from Cat. Assuming that it is unrealistic that he will get forty goals every year, assume 32 is more realistic. The Hawks at this point would still be light 10 goals from Cat.

Cat's performance begs only one question. Did he just have an off year, or did coaching have something to do with it? Was it stupid on JC's part to try to get this team to play a Jacques Lemaire style of game, or should he have just admitted he didn't have the personnel to do it and play a run and gun style? My take is JC may have mucked around a little too much with the Hawks early in the season, but Cat is on a pace to match his SOG total from last year. The only thing that has changed is he shot 18% last year, and is only shooting 8% this year. So whatever you say about JC, Cat has been getting his shots - he just isn't converting at an elite level.

Just imagine if Cat converted at a higher pace how that would have rippled through the team's performance. They would have been playing ahead and more relaxed more of the time. Too bad. That's why I am not too critical of SB and JC because what would the Caps be if Ovie only scored 15 goals for the year? You just can't discount Cat's (lack of) performance.

 

[Northernhawk]

10 yrs on the job...

101 trades...

10 drafts(70 rounds) 85 picks...

3 Cups...

...get to Bowman!

 

[Blackhawks]

10 yrs on the job...

101 trades...

10 drafts(70 rounds) 85 picks...

3 Cups...

...get to Bowman!

First 6 years with a core not built by him 3 cups

Last 5 years Complete failure

Fire and move on, he was never great to begin with, the Hawks only won because he didnt make too many moves and he tweaked very little because there was very little tweaking to do, now that he has been making trades left and right the team is in shambles, he's completely clueless and delusional because he actually thought this team can contend in 18 months, 12 months later and 1 point improvement....

 

[Northernhawk]

Keeping Hjalmarsson over Ladd, Niemi and even Marty Reasoner(remember him) and matching SJ offer sheet is case in point his importance to winning THREE Cups and not ONE Cup...

Trusting guys like Corey Crawford, Bryan Bickell and Marcus Kruger to improve

Acquiring players like Michael Frolik, Johnny Oduya, Michal Handzus, Michal Rozsival, Brad Richards, Antoine Vermette, Viktor Stalberg, Ray Emery, Scott Darling, Nick Leddy, Andrew Desjardins, Kris Versteeg(again) worked

His drafts(from the rear) have been filled with 15 more selections over 10 drafts and more often than not resulted in best choices...
2010 Kevin Hayes 24th overall is ranked 23rd in NHL career games, also drafted Nordstrom, Johns and Holl
2011 Brandon Saad(43)Andrew Shaw(139) are ranked 4th and 9th, also drafted Danault, Dahlbeck and Clendening
2012 Teuvo Teravainen(18) is ranked 13th, also drafted Hinostroza
2013 Ryan Hartman(30) is ranked 17th, also drafted Motte, Hayden and Dahlstrom
2014 Nick Schmaltz(20) is ranked 17th, also drafted Sikura
2015 was a write off unless Dennis Gilbert shines through
2016 Alex Debrincat(39) is ranked 7th
2017 Henri Jokiharju(29) is ranked 8th, also drafted Ian Mitchell and Evan Barratt
2018 Adam Boqvist(8) is ranked 8th, also drafted Nicolas Beaudin and Phillip Kurashev
2019 Kirby Dach(3) is ranked 2nd, also drafted Alex Vlasic and Michael Teply

 

[LDF]

Keeping Hjalmarsson over Ladd, Niemi and even Marty Reasoner(remember him) and matching SJ offer sheet is case in point his importance to winning THREE Cups and not ONE Cup...

Trusting guys like Corey Crawford, Bryan Bickell and Marcus Kruger to improve

Acquiring players like Michael Frolik, Johnny Oduya, Michal Handzus, Michal Rozsival, Brad Richards, Antoine Vermette, Viktor Stalberg, Ray Emery, Scott Darling, Nick Leddy, Andrew Desjardins, Kris Versteeg(again) worked

His drafts(from the rear) have been filled with 15 more selections over 10 drafts and more often than not resulted in best choices...
2010 Kevin Hayes 24th overall is ranked 23rd in NHL career games, also drafted Nordstrom, Johns and Holl
2011 Brandon Saad(43)Andrew Shaw(139) are ranked 4th and 9th, also drafted Danault, Dahlbeck and Clendening
2012 Teuvo Teravainen(18) is ranked 13th, also drafted Hinostroza
2013 Ryan Hartman(30) is ranked 17th, also drafted Motte, Hayden and Dahlstrom
2014 Nick Schmaltz(20) is ranked 17th, also drafted Sikura
2015 was a write off unless Dennis Gilbert shines through
2016 Alex Debrincat(39) is ranked 7th
2017 Henri Jokiharju(29) is ranked 8th, also drafted Ian Mitchell and Evan Barratt
2018 Adam Boqvist(8) is ranked 8th, also drafted Nicolas Beaudin and Phillip Kurashev
2019 Kirby Dach(3) is ranked 2nd, also drafted Alex Vlasic and Michael Teply

and between the last cup and now the system is in shambles and can't even get a whiff of the wild card selection.

btw how many teams goes to the playoff ??

 

[Blackhawks]

Its time for this clueless round shaped clown to go, there is zero excuse to keep him beyond his point.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Its time for this clueless round shaped clown to go, there is zero excuse to keep him beyond his point.

There are plenty of things to criticize Bowman for, his weight isn't one of them.

 

[Blackhawks]

There are plenty of things to criticize Bowman for, his weight isn't one of them.

Sorry officer, who said I was talking about weight? You just assumed

 

[CallMeShaft]

Sorry officer, who said I was talking about weight? You just assumed

Don't give me any of your shit. You very clearly made a comment about his weight; don't coward away from it now. Just own up to the fact that it was a stupid comment and bitch about shit that actually has to do with the Hawks and/or hockey.

 

[Blackhawks]

Don't give me any of your shit. You very clearly made a comment about his weight; don't coward away from it now. Just own up to the fact that it was a stupid comment and bitch about shit that actually has to do with the Hawks and/or hockey.

lol Stan doesn’t even have weight issues, what on earth are you talking about? I was talking about his round balloon bald head. You are getting way too serious over stupid innocent comments, lighten up. Stan needs to go, that’s the bottom line, can you refute that?

 

[CallMeShaft]

lol Stan doesn’t even have weight issues, what on earth are you talking about? I was talking about his round balloon bald head. You are getting way too serious over stupid innocent comments, lighten up. Stan needs to go, that’s the bottom line, can you refute that?

If you meant head, you should've said 'round shaped head'. "Round shaped clown" implies you think he's a fat clown.

I've made my feelings about him very clear in the past and especially today. But I'm not going to act like a deranged lunatic when talking about him. I have enough pride in myself and what little reputation I have here to not go fully crazy about him. And you know what? Having a somewhat level head makes people actually value my opinion, even when I critique him or Colliton. Weird how that works out.

 

[Backyard Hockey]

People are overthinking it.

3 straight seasons with no playoff appearances

5 seasons without a playoff series win

going into this season with JC as coach

all with the money tied up in the core

Regardless of his last name or prior Cups, the above would get any GM fired. He’s no exception

 

[CallMeShaft]

People are overthinking it.

3 straight seasons with no playoff appearances

5 seasons without a playoff series win

going into this season with JC as coach

all with the money tied up in the core

Regardless of his last name or prior Cups, the above would get any GM fired. He’s no exception

You have to wonder if Rocky trying not to be like his old man, has shown a bit too much loyalty to guys like McDonough and Bowman.

 

[ColdSteel2]

You have to wonder if Rocky trying not to be like his old man, has shown a bit too much loyalty to guys like McDonough and Bowman.

Get your history straight. It’s Bill Wirtz’s loyalty to guys like Bob Pulford that played a large part in the Hawks past failures. He always came back to that guy, results or not. It’s the same thing all over again.

 

[Blackhawks]

If you meant head, you should've said 'round shaped head'. "Round shaped clown" implies you think he's a fat clown.

I've made my feelings about him very clear in the past and especially today. But I'm not going to act like a deranged lunatic when talking about him. I have enough pride in myself and what little reputation I have here to not go fully crazy about him. And you know what? Having a somewhat level head makes people actually value my opinion, even when I critique him or Colliton. Weird how that works out.

Many value my opinion, and I don’t really care if some don’t value it cause my words might not be politically correct enough to your or their liking. I am a harsh critique, you are a soft critique, that’s what it comes down to. You are still ok with him staying and I am fully blown fire this guy now he’s completely 100% absolute zero doubt useless horrendous GM! That’s facts right there.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Get your history straight. It’s Bill Wirtz’s loyalty to guys like Bob Pulford that played a large part in the Hawks past failures. He always came back to that guy, results or not. It’s the same thing all over again.

Pulford was the one guy Bill liked. But my point is that Bill was willing to move on from people, especially players, because he didn't want to pay him. There was next to no loyalty.

With Rocky, we had Toews and Kane signed to what had been the biggest cap hits in the league, Seabrook got a contract he was never going to live up to, and Bowman has become one of the longest tenured GMs in the league. Rocky seems like he might overvalue loyalty.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Many value my opinion, and I don’t really care if some don’t value it cause my words might not be politically correct enough to your or their liking. I am a harsh critique, you are a soft critique, that’s what it comes down to. You are still ok with him staying and I am fully blown fire this guy now he’s completely 100% absolute zero doubt useless horrendous GM! That’s facts right there.

I'm okay with him staying?!? No, I accept the fact that he's staying, despite it being the wrong decision. I'm not going to have a childish hissy fit everyday over something I don't control.

And who values your opinions? Your mother? Even BWC and Fiddy probably think your batshit crazy. At least both of them can be somewhat objective, or at least I assume Fiddy can be objective, some of his posts are very hard to make out.

I give your post here 1 out of 5 stars; 1 being the lowest caliber of post. See, I can be a harsh critic (the word your looking for is critic by the way, not critique).

 

[Blackhawks]

I'm okay with him staying?!? No, I accept the fact that he's staying, despite it being the wrong decision. I'm not going to have a childish hissy fit everyday over something I don't control.

And who values your opinions? Your mother? Even BWC and Fiddy probably think your batshit crazy. At least both of them can be somewhat objective, or at least I assume Fiddy can be objective, some of his posts are very hard to make out.

I give your post here 1 out of 5 stars; 1 being the lowest caliber of post. See, I can be a harsh critic (the word your looking for is critic by the way, not critique).

Oh no a Stan fan gives me 1 out of 5 stars, how am I gonna sleep tonight ? You love Stan the Man and thats the main reason why you are so pissed about my comments lol

 

[CallMeShaft]

Oh no a Stan fan gives me 1 out of 5 stars, how am I gonna sleep tonight ? You love Stan the Man and thats the main reason why you are so pissed about my comments lol

Wait, I'm pissed about your comments? I'm a Stan fan? You sleep like a normal human being?

Oh, and rereading your previous 1 star post, you call him a "useless horrendous GM" and claimed it as a fact, which it was technically an opinion and not in fact a fact, so I'm going to have to lower my score for that post to a 0 out of 5, because the lowest threshold somehow became lower with you.

 

[Blackhawks]

Wait, I'm pissed about your comments? I'm a Stan fan? You sleep like a normal human being?

Oh, and rereading your previous 1 star post, you call him a "useless horrendous GM" and claimed it as a fact, which it was technically an opinion and not in fact a fact, so I'm going to have to lower my score for that post to a 0 out of 5, because the lowest threshold somehow became lower with you.

Dude calm down lmao

 

[Putt Pirate]

One thing Stan is yet to prove is building a team on his own. He can manage a peak roster and add nice pieces. But he is a historic overpayer. Even Toews and Kane at the time were a million or two over what people expected. Especially with what Sid was making. Then the Bickell over payment...Seabrook. He has made his own bed with your current roster being what it is. Of those 3 overpays only 1 is living up to it (Kane). The other two are not even close.

As I have said before. A good GM makes his $ knowing when to cut bait with a player. You don't overpay and keep guys into their late 30s/early 40s. Especial a few of them on big deals on your team and expect to compete. They want that money you trade and reload and let some other suck overpay. He has not learned that lesson and has put us where we are today. Yes, he has made some nice trades. But he has also made many blunders (Bickell/TT, Ladd #2, Sharp #2, Brandon Manning (but made that one back), Joker, Panarin, Shaw #2, Rundbla, Weiss/Fleischmann, Scuderi).

 

[Blackhawks]

Remember when Stan gave away TWO seconds for Timmonen? Just this summer 2nd and 3rd for Shaw, he keeps making mistake after mistake, maybe now he will know the value of picks cause he certainly didn’t just a few months back or years back.

Remember when I was being ridiculed for complaining about the 10.5M overPayment of Kane and Toews contracts cause Stan acted on a supposed projection of a cap raise, keep in mind Toews and Kane were given those contracts when the cap was a mere 70M and even the projection was 75M but no competent GM should work on projections, I was told they would have gotten 13.5M in open market when to this day 6 years later and the highest cap hit is 12.5 to McDavid at that LOL

I am the one getting lessons on credibility lol