Stan Bowman thread (mod warning post 965)

ChiHawk21

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I guess it all depends on what "top prospect" means to you. To me its a guy around Jokers level. Joker was what our 3rd or 4th best prospect at the time of the trade? Basically every team has at least a couple guys of comparable worth and to me it doesn't make sense to expect Stan to get back a first in addition to a prospect of a similar caliber.

I think a team like the capitals trade a 1st plus someone like alexeyev for jokiharju. window is tight as the stars get older they need NHL defenseman now who can fit under the cap. I see what you are saying tho. Alexeyev may be too good of a prospect in some peoples eyes for that trade.
 

LDF

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last week Car gm stated that they need a goalie and a d-man and in rtn the Car would sacrifice one of the 2 - 1st rounders.
 
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ChiHawk21

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Blake Coleman makes peanuts and does everything. He hits, he scores, he PKs and for a team like Tampa, it’s huge to get a contributor like that, at that price with cost certainty. He has way more value than you think.
we know his value a 1st and a top prospect. I know hes good.
 

ChiHawk21

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Yeah and you’re saying it like “dude Blake Coleman got THIS”
"A 1st AND a top prospect??? On no planet does jokiharju return that. Duncan Kieth doesn’t even return that in a trade.

Argue about the return all you like, but that isn’t realistic in the slightest"

It was in response to this ^

I think jokiharju duncan keith and blake coleman are are worth at least 1st and a prospect...

I think duncan keith would be worth more then blake coleman to a contender.
 
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ColdSteel2

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Agree that Keith would get a 1st+. Teams with a short window and a glaring need on D would be all over that. Florida and Toronto come to mind immediately. Hell, Kimmo coming out of semi-retirement got 2 2nds as a rental.
 

Section88

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Thinking Jokiharju at the time of the trade could return a first and a top prospect is just stupidity. He was barely a top prospect himself depending on how you define the term.
 

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Jokiharju has not once proven he's worth that. He had a promising stretch of games here last season and then got sent down. He wasn't then, nor is he now, worth a 1st and a top prospect. Coleman already had two full NHL seasons under his belt prior to this one. Jokiharju had 30. You trade a 1st and a top prospect for a sure-thing. Not a 20 year old who hasn't proven much.

From all accounts reading the Sabres board, he's looked fine. Not great, not bad, but a good 5-6 Dman for them.
 

RememberTheRoar

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Jokiharju has not once proven he's worth that. He had a promising stretch of games here last season and then got sent down. He wasn't then, nor is he now, worth a 1st and a top prospect. Coleman already had two full NHL seasons under his belt prior to this one. Jokiharju had 30. You trade a 1st and a top prospect for a sure-thing. Not a 20 year old who hasn't proven much.

From all accounts reading the Sabres board, he's looked fine. Not great, not bad, but a good 5-6 Dman for them.

Was Jokiharju worth more than Nylander?
 

RememberTheRoar

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I think that’s the main point of Zawaski’s argument. I’d probably agree that he (or whoever in the org. that is feeding him that line) was going overboard with the 1st and top prospect comment, but I don’t know if that takes away from his other valid points.

The trade was a mistake for the several reasons he listed, and people below Stan knew it right away and made sure the narrative got in the media via Zawaski.
 

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I think that’s the main point of Zawaski’s argument. I’d probably agree that he (or whoever in the org. that is feeding him that line) was going overboard with the 1st and top prospect comment, but I don’t know if that takes away from his other valid points.

The trade was a mistake for the several reasons he listed, and people below Stan knew it right away and made sure the narrative got in the media via Zawaski.

Zawaski said "AT LEAST a first and a top prospect" as well by the way. Not just a 1st and top prospect, but at least that.

Also, you think that people in the front office were upset with the trade and started talking shit about it to the media? The Hawks brass have made it a point to keep things in house to the best of their ability. I sincerely doubt that people are leaking things like that to Jay so they can stick it their boss Stan freaking Bowman. MAYBE I could see this stuff leaking out if/when Bowman is no longer GM. But currently no, I don't think that's what's going on here.

I'm not trying to pick on you with this, but you post a lot of Zawaski podcast stuff and almost every time it seems wildly speculative. He's a professional reporter and not some Barstool Chief douche bag with an agenda, but the way he talks about things that are apparently unknown to everyone else covering this team makes me question basically everything he says. Chicago Blackhawks media coverage has been mindblowingly bad the last 11 years so there's already a lack of professional standard to begin with, but when I hear most of what this guy is saying it comes across as a reporter running with his own opinions.
 

RememberTheRoar

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Zawaski said "AT LEAST a first and a top prospect" as well by the way. Not just a 1st and top prospect, but at least that.

Also, you think that people in the front office were upset with the trade and started talking **** about it to the media? The Hawks brass have made it a point to keep things in house to the best of their ability. I sincerely doubt that people are leaking things like that to Jay so they can stick it their boss Stan freaking Bowman. MAYBE I could see this stuff leaking out if/when Bowman is no longer GM. But currently no, I don't think that's what's going on here.

I'm not trying to pick on you with this, but you post a lot of Zawaski podcast stuff and almost every time it seems wildly speculative. He's a professional reporter and not some Barstool Chief *****e bag with an agenda, but the way he talks about things that are apparently unknown to everyone else covering this team makes me question basically everything he says. Chicago Blackhawks media coverage has been mindblowingly bad the last 11 years so there's already a lack of professional standard to begin with, but when I hear most of what this guy is saying it comes across as a reporter running with his own opinions.


He has people in the organization that talk to him, and others in Chicago media don’t. This is all but proven as he has been right on multiple things long before others in Chi media even get a whiff of it.

That’s why I give his comments more attention than others. It’s the closest we have to an insider.
 

RememberTheRoar

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Can you extrapolate a little bit with what you mean on this?

Which part?

Zawaski reported right away the people in the organization thought Jokiharju was worth more than Nylander.

As far as the trade being a mistake, I’ve laid out why I personally believe that many times on this board. I’ve basically hit a BWC level of hate for the trade.
 

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Which part?

Zawaski reported right away the people in the organization thought Jokiharju was worth more than Nylander.

As far as the trade being a mistake, I’ve laid out why I personally believe that many times on this board. I’ve basically hit a BWC level of hate for the trade.

What did Zawaski specifically report in regards to people in the organization thinking their boss didn't get appropriate value for Jokiharju?
 

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