St Louis Blues at the trade deadline

[Lord Helix]

Are we seriously on about toughness again? If the idea is that a "tougher" d-man is going to somehow lighten the load on players, it's just flat-out wrong. A tougher d-man may be able to take the hit, but what did he do with the puck? Now the opposing team has the puck because said "tough" guy could withstand the hit, but he doesn't have the hockey IQ to have made the right play to change possession like a Pietrangelo does.

 

[BlueDream]

Are we seriously on about toughness again? If the idea is that a "tougher" d-man is going to somehow lighten the load on players, it's just flat-out wrong. A tougher d-man may be able to take the hit, but what did he do with the puck? Now the opposing team has the puck because said "tough" guy could withstand the hit, but he doesn't have the hockey IQ to have made the right play to change possession like a Pietrangelo does.

Neither extreme view is right. Yeah a tough d-man won't solve every problem, but I also think this view of acting like a tough defenseman is a complete liability is also far-fetched and extremely wrong.

I don't get why people think you need six excellent puck-movers to win. Show me a team that has that. I don't think one exists.

I bet the Los Angeles Kings sure are regretting carrying the likes of Robyn Regehr, Matt Greene, and they used to have Willie Mitchell as well. Clearly those guys couldn't move the puck good enough, and as we can see, it really costed the Kings as they didn't end up winning anything...

You won't convince me that you don't need at least some grit to win in the playoffs. And we don't have much of it on the blueline. We have a good enough defense that it's not a huge issue, but I think it could be one. People complain a lot about Bryan Bickell camping out in front of our net, and some of the Kings' guys like Regehr and Greene make it tougher for guys to do that. The idea that you can't move a guy from the crease these days without taking a penalty is also a huge misconception, especially in the playoffs. Sure the game has changed a bit, but that's just a false argument. Watch games and you'll see plenty of cross-checks still going uncalled the vast majority of the time. It doesn't take a lot to realize this.

 

[OSA]

Kelly Chase on TSN 1050 in Toronto this afternoon said that he expects the Blues to try to add a "Roman Polak-type" Dman by the trade deadline.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Are we seriously on about toughness again? If the idea is that a "tougher" d-man is going to somehow lighten the load on players, it's just flat-out wrong. A tougher d-man may be able to take the hit, but what did he do with the puck? Now the opposing team has the puck because said "tough" guy could withstand the hit, but he doesn't have the hockey IQ to have made the right play to change possession like a Pietrangelo does.

I don't think anyone is looking for any sort of neanderthal that has virtually no hockey sense or puck moving ability...nor do I think anyone wants anyone like that in place of Petro. The argument is that the Blues like d-men who are both physical/nasty while also being able to move the puck well. Finding that guy is near impossible though, which is why I think it's unlikely that the Blues fix that hole...but that doesn't mean that there isn't a hole to begin with.

BlueDream brought up some good physical d-men that have been very key for LA in the playoffs. Protecting the front of the net is paramount in the playoffs and I see that as a current weakness. Guys like Regehr, Greene, Seabrooke, Hjalmarsson, etc. make a big difference for their teams and I think the Blues could use a guy like that.

 

[Lord Helix]

I don't think anyone is looking for any sort of neanderthal that has virtually no hockey sense or puck moving ability...nor do I think anyone wants anyone like that in place of Petro. The argument is that the Blues like d-men who are both physical/nasty while also being able to move the puck well. Finding that guy is near impossible though, which is why I think it's unlikely that the Blues fix that hole...but that doesn't mean that there isn't a hole to begin with.

BlueDream brought up some good physical d-men that have been very key for LA in the playoffs. Protecting the front of the net is paramount in the playoffs and I see that as a current weakness. Guys like Regehr, Greene, Seabrooke, Hjalmarsson, etc. make a big difference for their teams and I think the Blues could use a guy like that.

Yeah, I get that we all want a cheaper version of Pronger. Of course that'd make us a better team. It's just not out there, as far as I've seen.

 

[Dbrownss]

We know the top 4 is locked....Jackman is a crease clearer. He may not be the best but I seen a lot of wings eating ice last night. I still think Zidlicky with Jackman would be best. It would also give us another weapon on the PP. Pietrangelo - Zidlicky on the 2nd

 

[2 Minute Minor]

We know the top 4 is locked....Jackman is a crease clearer. He may not be the best but I seen a lot of wings eating ice last night. I still think Zidlicky with Jackman would be best. It would also give us another weapon on the PP. Pietrangelo - Zidlicky on the 2nd

Jackman has quietly been playing well for a stretch lately. He isn't being put in bad situations, and he's making his presence felt for the opponents when he IS out there.

 

[Meatball]

We're probably going into the playoffs with the defense as is. Despite my gripe with the philosophy, I still get it.

It's the Stastny line that we need to focus on. Make the upgrades there and I can live with the defense.

 

[Quaz]

We know the top 4 is locked....Jackman is a crease clearer. He may not be the best but I seen a lot of wings eating ice last night. I still think Zidlicky with Jackman would be best. It would also give us another weapon on the PP. Pietrangelo - Zidlicky on the 2nd

I like the idea of Zidlicky. Maybe the Blues could move Berglund and Cole for Zidlicky and Ryder. Not sure if they can make that work and stay under the cap. Ryder would look good on a line with Stastny and Jaskin. NJ may not be able to resign both of these guys so they would probably be open to dealing them, and the Blues could let these two guys walk as UFA's at the end of the year and fill those positions with upcoming prospects.

I'm also hoping Lindbohm can make the team next year as puck mover that is a physical presence on the blue line. Parayrko could also eventually fit this bill as well.

 

[c-carp]

Kelly Chase on TSN 1050 in Toronto this afternoon said that he expects the Blues to try to add a "Roman Polak-type" Dman by the trade deadline.

That would be of great help

 

[2 Minute Minor]

That would be of great help

Where do you put a Roman Polak right now? Will you break up the top 4? (I know, after last night we're going to throw Gunnarson out of there, right? But what about in a couple games when he's playing up to his more typical level?)

Pietro, Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk.....I wouldn't take ice time from any of them to plug in Roman Polak types. Gunnarson either, if he's healthy. So then you end up playing the dude on the 4th line. What kind of impact would that have? I don't understand how its a "great help".

I think if this top 4 fail, then you have to blow that up. Ship out Bouwmeester and plug in your "physical crease-clearing D-man" who has a higher ceiling than Polak, a top-pairing caliber guy. But they won't make changes like that until we've seen this group have a shot. And they've been all healthy together so little so far, I'm still not sure we've seen what this team will be like at their baseline.

 

[KirkOut]

Where do you put a Roman Polak right now? Will you break up the top 4? (I know, after last night we're going to throw Gunnarson out of there, right? But what about in a couple games when he's playing up to his more typical level?)

Pietro, Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk.....I wouldn't take ice time from any of them to plug in Roman Polak types. Gunnarson either, if he's healthy. So then you end up playing the dude on the 4th line. What kind of impact would that have? I don't understand how its a "great help".

I think if this top 4 fail, then you have to blow that up. Ship out Bouwmeester and plug in your "physical crease-clearing D-man" who has a higher ceiling than Polak, a top-pairing caliber guy. But they won't make changes like that until we've seen this group have a shot. And they've been all healthy together so little so far, I'm still not sure we've seen what this team will be like at their baseline.

exactly this. If we bring in a bottom pairing defenseman, he will be paired with Jackman. We all know what a disaster Polak-Jackman was when they were together. So I don't think that's the type of player we should be plugging in to that spot

 

[EastonBlues22]

I think that's a good question 2MM.

I don't see Jackman's pairing getting exploited around the net all that often. Usually their weakness is making errors in transition that lead to chances, or getting exploited on the rush, or some other mistake away from the net.

The pairings that could use more help around the net are the top two pairings, and the PK. You probably don't want whoever we can afford to bring in to face the quality of competition that Pietrangelo's pairing faces, which essentially leaves Gunnarsson's slot as the sole remaining possibility. I generally think he's played a pretty good all-around game, so I'm not sure who would replace him and do better for a reasonable cost.

It might make sense to bring in someone to pair with Jackman with the intention of bolstering the PK, but if he isn't a good transition player, that pairing is going to be consistently hemmed in and exploited at ES by teams with a good forecheck...just like the Jackman/Polak pairing in the past. Jackman's pairing works much better at ES when there's someone who can transition the puck effectively.

Good interior defensemen who can transition well are legitimate top 4 defensemen...and those are going to be contested/costly to acquire. I see the need, but I'm not sure a good solution is out there and within our means this season.

 

[Alklha]

If Chase is right in what he says, then I'd imagine that the acquisition would have to be for the third pairing. Probably with a view of being a Jackman replacement from next season onwards. In the short term this player would be on the third pair with Jax, and leave us with the same frustrations we had with the Polák-Jax pairing.

Top 4? Who fits the bill that is better than Bouwmeester or Gunnarsson? What kind of price would we have to pay for that? Armstrong has built the top-4 how he wants it, he isn't giving up on it at this point.

This just looks like someone looking at our roster and trying to find the hole to create some speculation.

 

[Dbrownss]

It is truly hard to find a physical puck mover, and that's for a reason.



It's either get a legitimate puck mover, offensive threat to play with jax....or defense is set. I don't see a "polak type" player being added

 

[Ranksu]

I just have this feeling we aren't gonna see any trades in this season. Off-season is different.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'm just happy the Lucic rumors are dead.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

It is truly hard to find a physical puck mover, and that's for a reason.



It's either get a legitimate puck mover, offensive threat to play with jax....or defense is set. I don't see a "polak type" player being added

It would be kind of uninspiring if the team traded away THE Polak, only to decide they need a guy just like him to improve the club.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I'm not convinced this team needs a crease clearer. I think we have the pieces in place to have an extremely effective defensive corps.

What I'm convinced we really need is for Gunnarsson to be 100% and to be in the lineup every night with Shattenkirk so they can continue to develop chemistry.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I would like to see us add a 3rd line winger for sure. I like Jaskin, but he's a wild card when it comes to the playoffs.

Not to mention we don't have -that- much forward depth. I'd like to be able to move Berglund or Jaskin around as needed. Lindstrom is a corpse to me at this point, I want nothing to do with him in the playoffs.

Right now we look really good b/c we're healthy. But one or two forward injuries and we all of a sudden are talking about Reaves or Ott in the top 6-9, something I don't want to see at all this playoffs.

I'd like to keep Berglund at this point. He provides solid center insurance depth, and I think he's a more consistent player then Jaskin right now. I'd really like to see us get another solid 3rd line winger option at the deadline so we can push Jaskin into a rotation during the regular season, then we can use Jaskin and Porter as our primary injury replacements during the playoffs.

 

[MissouriMook]

I'm not convinced this team needs a crease clearer. I think we have the pieces in place to have an extremely effective defensive corps.

What I'm convinced we really need is for Gunnarsson to be 100% and to be in the lineup every night with Shattenkirk so they can continue to develop chemistry.

It depends on which defensive theory you subscribe to, physicality or transition. The current coaching staff believes that if your defense is transitioning the puck out of the zone correctly and effectively, the other team only gets "one and done" chances. At that point, you have no one planting themselves in the crease to clear, therefore having a crease clearer on your D only keeps you from transitioning. Almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy that if you put crease clearers on D you will need them to clear the crease because you will have difficulty getting the puck out of your zone quite often.

Ideally, I think you would want to have a physical but mobile guy on each pairing combined with a puck mover with a good shot and high hockey IQ. I think we're built too far towards the transition model, especially for the playoffs when teams tend to get heavier on the forecheck.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Starting to feel like a trade isn't going to happen at all

 

[cardinalnation]

I have always liked Dustin Byfuglien's game. He is a beast and is quite skilled for a big guy too. I highly doubt Winnipeg would move him unless just blown away and i don't think we could fit him under the cap anyways. My point is that there are guys that fit that mold but they are few and far between. That guy would look awesome in a Blues uni though.

 

[Hooliganx3]

Starting to feel like a trade isn't going to happen at all

I don't think that's a bad thing really. Making a trade just to make a trade would be a mistake. I just don't see the trade out there that will 100% make us a better team.

 

[Meatball]

Starting to feel like a trade isn't going to happen at all

Which would be disappointing. I can live with our personnel on defense, but we definitely could use more scoring up front, specifically on the Stastny line.

Going into the playoffs as is (up front) would be a mistake, honestly.