St Louis Blues at the trade deadline

[STL fan in MN]

Well I will definitely have to agree to disagree that our D's handling of the forecheck has been weak in the playoffs. It absolutely was in 2012 against LA. No disagreement on that series.
It wasn't close to a problem in 2013 when we actually dominated the Kings in puck possession(just not goals) and I'd say we had a slight edge last year. Considering we were going up against the best two teams in hockey the last two postseasons, I'm not concerned at all with the way the D handled the forecheck. I was actually impressed.

If it has seemed weak this year it is probably because Bouwmeester missed 7-8 games and Gunnarsson has missed about 20 games. Both guys are crucial to our ability to transition the puck up ice.

Improving the top 4 vs. improving the 3rd line comes down to wanting to improve over Carl Gunnarsson while solidifying the 3rd pairing or wanting to improve over Patrik Berglund and solidifying the 3rd line.

Gunnarsson isn't a problem on the 2nd pairing and Hitchcock was adamant about that yesterday. I agree that in an ideal world, he'd be more physical. Then we'd really be set. However, Gunnarsson is fine as is. Nothing special. Simply fine.

Berglund may not be a problem on the 3rd line either. He is working well with Stastny. I've seen this before, though. I can't trust Berglund. He comes and goes way too often.

Our strength in the playoffs is going to be our ability to roll three good to great forward lines. The opponent's top 2 pairings will focus on the STL and SOB lines. The third pairing will get Stastny's line. We need to exploit the hell out of that matchup.

As for strengthening the 3rd pairing, I'm not too against Chris Butler or Petteri Lindbohm sticking in that spot. I'm pretty much done with Cole. I still wouldn't mind a puck mover for the spot. Whoever it is will be playing with Jackman and he isn't very good against the forecheck. An agile skater and good passer would be more important qualities for Jax's partner than snarl IMO. If we can find someone with all three attributes, go get him. It'll likely cost us, though.

Yeah, thus why I doubt it happens. Petry is a right-handed d-man that will almost certainly be traded by the deadline but he's going to have a lot of teams after him and my gut tells me that EDM will get better offers than what the Blues would be willing to give up to get him.

I think that the Blues as constructed, are capable of winning the Cup but I would put about 5 teams as more likely, that's all. They're a good team but just a smidge outside of elite still IMO. One or two key tweaks could make all the difference...or they could turn into nothing and be costly, ie., the Miller trade. You never know for sure how anything's going to turn out.

I guess I'm just still unconvinced that this team is truly built for playoff hockey. Wins against the Canes, Oilers, Yotes andSJ without Thornton are nice but that doesn't really tell us much on how they'd fare against teams like CHI, LA, NSH or ANA 7 games in a row.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

I guess I'm just still unconvinced that this team is truly built for playoff hockey. Wins against the Canes, Oilers, Yotes and SJ without Thornton are nice but that doesn't really tell us much on how they'd fare against teams like CHI, LA, NSH or ANA 7 games in a row.

True. Just like how a 6-4 loss to LA without Schwartz/Gunnarsson and with Brodeur in net or a 4-1 loss to Chicago without Bouwmeester doesn't tell us too much either.

I wish we were playing LA, Chicago, Nashville, Anaheim right now with this 100% healthy lineup. We'd get all the answers we need!

FWIW, the one game we played against Nashville with this healthy lineup...we won. In the three losses, we were missing at least 2 key players(some combo of Schwartz, Bouwmeester, Elliott, Oshie, Gunnarsson)

I would agree we are just a smidge below Chicago, LA, and the other elite contenders. With that said, we are as close to the elite as we have been in, perhaps, the last 20-25 years. The gap has been closed significantly. Have we closed it enough? We'll see. It certainly wouldn't hurt to add a certain player here and/or there. I would guess most are against another Ryan Miller-esque mega deal, though. Unless it is a no brainer.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Question for the folks wanting a physical D man.

How do you see that impacting the games? If the forechecking in the playoffs is affecting the current top 4 guys, how does adding more muscle to the third pairing play out in that scenario? I'm feeling like the team is married to this top 4 for the immediate future, and it's a reflection of a deliberate strategic choice by Armstrong and Hitchcock.

I also have a hard time justifying re-signing Jackman after this contract, even though I like him as a player and think he has value on the 3rd line.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Question for the folks wanting a physical D man.

How do you see that impacting the games? If the forechecking in the playoffs is affecting the current top 4 guys, how does adding more muscle to the third pairing play out in that scenario? I'm feeling like the team is married to this top 4 for the immediate future, and it's a reflection of a deliberate strategic choice by Armstrong and Hitchcock.

I also have a hard time justifying re-signing Jackman after this contract, even though I like him as a player and think he has value on the 3rd line.

Completely agree. Toughness would be nice but hockey sense, good passing, and quick skating gets the puck moving up ice. Army and Hitch know this, too, which is why we have chased Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson in trades the last two years.

As for Jackman, I'm still a big fan and love everything he has done for us. However, we have to move on. We need to use his 3+ million elsewhere and Petteri Lindbohm will likely be ready for 82 games next year.

 

[KirkOut]

I'm not necessarily against McQuaid I just want somebody to help me understand the fixation. Isn't the fact that the Boston fans are essentially willing to give him away for free a red flag?

 

[Frenzy31]

I'm not necessarily against McQuaid I just want somebody to help me understand the fixation. Isn't the fact that the Boston fans are essentially willing to give him away for free a red flag?

Should be, IMO.

But sometimes the grass is always greener. And, quite frankly, there can be a bit of parroting on this board. Someone tosses a name out, and a some other people jump on board without watching the player or checking out threads discussing him.

 

[Lord Helix]

I wouldn't mind seeing a realistic list of players that will be available. We're focusing on names right off the bat instead of looking at the entire sample size. Even if it's only 20 names between forwards and d-men, I want to see the options. Then, we can move on about what players are the best fit versus the cost in assets. Not "I want player X because he makes forwards pay the price when they're standing still in scoring areas."

Just my opinion, but I'm a sucker for lists.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I'm not necessarily against McQuaid I just want somebody to help me understand the fixation. Isn't the fact that the Boston fans are essentially willing to give him away for free a red flag?

I think it's more their distaste for Kelly, and possibly their desire to get rid of McQuaid's contract to make room for a blow-up than it is for their distaste for McQuaid.

 

[Dbrownss]

They have depth to replace Mcquaid. And that was just one poster during the Bruins bad streak. It's a case of depth being able to absorb the loss and he's a UFA, may not be able to keep him past this year. He's a competent PO vet that plays well in his end. I couldn't get a handle on how he was with his outlet pass. I'd ask Bruins fans, but I'm sure they'd talk him up. I too wonder about how effective he'd be with stone hands Jax

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Either way, I wouldn't mind picking him up for next year in replacement of Jax. Maybe give him a spot on staff? I love his devotion to the Blues, but his play is starting to decline, and we can't afford 3M+ on a 6/7th Dman.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Completely agree. Toughness would be nice but hockey sense, good passing, and quick skating gets the puck moving up ice. Army and Hitch know this, too, which is why we have chased Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson in trades the last two years.

As for Jackman, I'm still a big fan and love everything he has done for us. However, we have to move on. We need to use his 3+ million elsewhere and Petteri Lindbohm will likely be ready for 82 games next year.

I'm not saying I oppose getting an upgrade in the 3rd pairing. But unless you decide to break up the top 2 pairs, I don't see that guy getting many minutes or making a very big impact (maybe in the PK) in games. All that assumes a healthy D corps, which may not be the case.

I see people describing a perceived weakness, but I don't think a trade actually addresses it.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

"Rattie and Berglund is fine for Doan and Michalek. I'd prefer a pick be thrown in there from the blues - nothing high - for the sake of snapping up two desirable playoff assets. Z would be retained at 50%."

-Phoenix Trade Board

Vermette would require a 1st, according to Phoenix fans, due to his skyrocketing trade value. I REALLY want that extra center depth.

Schwartz Lehtera Tarasenko
Steen Backes Oshie
Doan Stastny Jaskin
Ott Lapiere Reaves

Bouwmeester Pietrangelo
Gunnarsson Shattenkirk
Jackman/Cole/Butler Michalek

This doesn't look too bad, although my pride is a little hurt, and losing Berglund+Rattie+Pick might sting. I think this would be a sick lineup if we could make it happen.

We drop Vermette after the season and trade Doan for assets?

--------
Also, I think I'll work on compiling that list for availables. It's an excellent idea and something that I've been meaning to sit down and do for a while.

 

[c-carp]

I'm not necessarily against McQuaid I just want somebody to help me understand the fixation. Isn't the fact that the Boston fans are essentially willing to give him away for free a red flag?

They have a young D man who's last name is Miller that can fill McQuaids role

 

[c-carp]

I like that deal w Phoenix but will Doan waive his NTC?

 

[DatDude44]

As much as i like butler.

I'd love to add Braden Coburn or Willie Mitchell on the backend.

and berglund for a guy that may be the same value wise...but fits better...like a Tommy Wingels or something.

 

[Ranksu]

What makes Husso untouchable? Our future is pretty set at goalie with Allen, and Binnington coming up looks good too.

He's played well, sure, but if Rattie isn't untouchable than Husso shouldn't be either. And he was a mid-round pick, it's not like he's a future all-star.

Husso is going to in 3-4 years Blues 2nd goalie. This is big statement, but I seriously think what I have seen this kid have bright future in NHL. If Blues won't give him deal next summer I'm gonna be a little bit suprised. He has developed big steps. Last year Saros was better then Husso and current season Husso has step up ahead of Saros. I'm just saying it's crazy to say Husso arent untouchable piece. He got easily better future in NHL then Binnington if he is going developed same way like now.
I think that also would be great if next season Husso could go AHL Chicago and get use to smaller ring and coaching stuff could give him better view what need to improve and he would be ready for NHL in couple years.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

How can anyone say we know enough now to project Binnington and Husso relative to each other?

Pick your favorite and pump up his expectations.

 

[Ranksu]

How can anyone say we know enough now to project Binnington and Husso relative to each other?

Pick your favorite and pump up his expectations.

Make a quick call to Don Cherry maybe he knows how to pump up.

 

[bluesman11]

I think the Blues biggest weakness come playoff time is that their d-men get very agitated by a heavy forecheck so ideally, I would like to add a physical, nasty top-4 LD to pair with either Petro or Shatty.

Agree

 

[Meatball]

Couldn't of said it better myself. Maybe McQuaid isn't the answer, though. Still, a good example what I personally think we should go for.

I've said from the beginning that I get what this regime wants to do with the defense. Thwart the forecheck in the first place. It makes perfect since. Playoff hockey is unpredictable though, and sometimes Plan A gets thrown out the window.

 

[STLBloosiers]

As much as i like butler.

I'd love to add Braden Coburn or Willie Mitchell on the backend.

and berglund for a guy that may be the same value wise...but fits better...like a Tommy Wingels or something.

highly doubt Mitchell leaves Florida. They're having a great season for themselves and the way Luongo is playing they can clinch a spot in the east


as for the Doan trade. He would fit perfectly plus brings leadership like Jagr would also

 

[Frenzy31]

As much as i like butler.

I'd love to add Braden Coburn or Willie Mitchell on the backend.

and berglund for a guy that may be the same value wise...but fits better...like a Tommy Wingels or something.

What about Michalek out of Arizona?

 

[MissouriMook]

Couldn't of said it better myself. Maybe McQuaid isn't the answer, though. Still, a good example what I personally think we should go for.

I've said from the beginning that I get what this regime wants to do with the defense. Thwart the forecheck in the first place. It makes perfect since. Playoff hockey is unpredictable though, and sometimes Plan A gets thrown out the window.

How does the saying go? "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

 

[c-carp]

How does the saying go? "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

Mike Tyson coined that during his heyday! Love that quote

 

[2 Minute Minor]

How does the saying go? "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

No battle plan survives contact with the enemy.