St Louis Blues at the trade deadline

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Ladd > Doan.

Also not a fan of .doan and his nasty play. Just personal taste, and not saying it wouldn't help win a cup/protect our players. Also not saying the opposite. Might be worth debating.

 

[Dbrownss]

We would benefit from Doan's antics, and the fact that he gets away with it often.

I dont see why Winnepeg would deal with us. Whats the situaion on Ladd?

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

http://jets.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=89839

Winnipeg actually has a place on their website listing contract dates. Cool.

Ladd is UFA after next season, so unless we really payed for him (especially since he's in our division), I doubt we could acquire him. Would be cool though, if he would be cheap (he won't be).

Doan's 'antics' can cost someone their career/future quality of life. I'm personally not interested in that. I hated that we picked up Lapiere, and was furious when he was suspended. Now that he has cleaned up his act significantly, I'm happy we have him, but I don't think Doan is or ever will be on the right side of the line when it comes to how he 'plays the game'.

I certainly wouldn't want to give up assets to have that guy get us our first Cup in our history. I'm just imagining a replay of last year, except with Kane instead of Backes, and Doan instead of Seabrook. I don't want that on the same cup with Tarrasenko and Schwartz. No asterisk, please.

Maybe I'm over-reacting and over-thinking the what-ifs, but if any of that came true, I think it would take away some of the pride I'd have for the cup coming to STL.

 

[Dbrownss]

http://jets.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=89839

Winnipeg actually has a place on their website listing contract dates. Cool.

Ladd is UFA after next season, so unless we really payed for him (especially since he's in our division), I doubt we could acquire him. Would be cool though, if he would be cheap (he won't be).

Doan's 'antics' can cost someone their career/future quality of life. I'm personally not interested in that. I hated that we picked up Lapiere, and was furious when he was suspended. Now that he has cleaned up his act significantly, I'm happy we have him, but I don't think Doan is or ever will be on the right side of the line when it comes to how he 'plays the game'.

I certainly wouldn't want to give up assets to have that guy get us our first Cup in our history. I'm just imagining a replay of last year, except with Kane instead of Backes, and Doan instead of Seabrook. I don't want that on the same cup with Tarrasenko and Schwartz. No asterisk, please.

Maybe I'm over-reacting and over-thinking the what-ifs, but if any of that came true, I think it would take away some of the pride I'd have for the cup coming to STL.

The nobility is admirable, but fact is...Bickell's name is on the cup, Dustin Brown's name is on the cup. You almost need the dirt bags...for better or worse. As for Lappy's suspension, I seen a difference between intent and accidental. You couldn't convince me that he wanted that to happen. It was the shove plus Boyle losing an edge right on the dasher.

Now I'm not saying we HAVE to have that edge to our game....but....yea.

 

[BlueDream]

I'm not so sure of that. Minnesota sucks right now and Colorado and Dallas are average at best. Calgary is falling off a bit, so if Winnipeg can just keep playing competitively they could easily grab a playoff spot.

I also don't think they will trade their captain to a team in their division.

Regarding the debate, I think Doan is a dirty but hell yeah I'd take him on this team. Also, after what Seabrook did last year I wouldn't mind seeing a Blackhawk getting blown up this year. Not saying go out and injure them, but all I want is a cup. If what it takes is one of our guys destroying Patrick Kane then so be it. I'd have no sympathy for Chicago.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

The nobility is admirable, but fact is...Bickell's name is on the cup, Dustin Brown's name is on the cup. You almost need the dirt bags...for better or worse. As for Lappy's suspension, I seen a difference between intent and accidental. You couldn't convince me that he wanted that to happen. It was the shove plus Boyle losing an edge right on the dasher.

Now I'm not saying we HAVE to have that edge to our game....but....yea.

I agree that Lapiere's hit is questionable at best, but I did not enjoy having him suspended in the first (half, IIRC) year after we believed him to be reformed.

As for Doan, I subjectively believe him to be dirtier than both Brown and Bickell, but that's just me.

Also, Doan is a UFA the same year as Ladd (2016), so he's not likely to be had unless we give a big payment. I'd personally be more interested in Vermette, and only interested in Doan if we got Vermette to go with him.

Doan also seems to love it in Phoenix, and may evoke his (some form of) NTC, which he has, according to my knowledge.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/puck-daddy/shane-doan-signs-four-21-2-million-deal-212019958--nhl.html

Schwartz Lehtera Tarasenko
Steen Backes Oshie
Doan Stastny Vermette
Ott Lapiere Reaves

While this would look pretty sweet, we would have to essentially go all-in: giving up Rattie, picks, and a few other prospects plus Berglund to even make this possible. Cap-wise, I'm not even sure if it's possible since Capgeek left us. R.I.P. But, I would imagine that it wouldn't work, and most definitely wouldn't work with Tarasenko getting his first payday. Maybe Vermette walking and Doan being traded at the draft would circumvent that, but again, I'm very skeptical of Doan to the Blues at all.

 

[Dbrownss]

Where's Stastny? Lol

I'd love Vermette but I think his price would be through the roof. If we had to take Doan. It would be Vermette - Stastny- Doan.

ARI wanted rattie and Berglund for a Vermette deal with Michalek. Maybe swap out for Doan. But I'd still like to get a RHD for the 3rd pairing. That's why Michalek interested me

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Where's Stastny? Lol

I'd love Vermette but I think his price would be through the roof. If we had to take Doan. It would be Vermette - Stastny- Doan.

ARI wanted rattie and Berglund for a Vermette deal with Michalek. Maybe swap out for Doan. But I'd still like to get a RHD for the 3rd pairing. That's why Michalek interested me

Hah. Oops. Just caught that, too. Fixed.


But we could totally trade Stastny to acquire Shea Weber for our 3rd pairing.

 

[BlueSinceBirth]

I know the popular opinion is a winger for Stastny, but I really think we need another dman. I don't want Butler/ Cole/ Lindbohm in the top 6 when the playoffs start.

 

[Meatball]

3rd line left winger.
3rd pairing right handed dman.

Done.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

So....Adam McQuaid and Antoine Vermette?

 

[c-carp]

Ladd > Doan.

Also not a fan of .doan and his nasty play. Just personal taste, and not saying it wouldn't help win a cup/protect our players. Also not saying the opposite. Might be worth debating.

That's exactly why I was hoping the Oshie for Lucic rumors were true, this team could use a dose of nasty, to me they aren't nasty enough, a mean nasty SOB up front or on the Blueline would help this team a ton

A Lucic-Doan type up front or a McQuaid-Stoner type on the Blueline, where do I sign

 

[c-carp]

So....Adam McQuaid and Antoine Vermette?

Love McQuaid if the Bruins would move him

 

[Meatball]

And the McQuaid bandwagon grows.

 

[Dbrownss]

Love McQuaid if the Bruins would move him

I inquired about him some time ago. Poster was being sarcastic to an extent but he was free if we took Kelly lol.

A middling draft pick would snag Mcquaid imo

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

The big need is a 2nd line quality winger to put with Stastny. The winger would actually play with Stastny on our 3rd line but we need to get someone of better quality to put with Stastny. Put a 45-50 point winger on our 3rd line and it's going to be impossible to stop us at full health.

I'm a little surprised that one or two people said a top 4 d-man is our top need. Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester aren't being broken up nor should they be. They're playing very well since Christmas. Shattenkirk is firmly entrenched on the 2nd pairing as he should be. That leaves Gunnarsson as the odd man out and Hitch just yesterday called him a top 4 dman...which he is.

These 4 guys lack physicality but they do a great job handling the forecheck as they are very good at moving the puck up and out of the zone. Since 2012, Hitch and Army have seemingly put a premium on dmen that can transition the puck. I say "since 2012" because that is when LA suffocated our D with their relentless forecheck.

I can see wanting a guy that can step in and replace Gunnarsson in case he gets hurt again. That is more of a luxury, though.

Finding a right handed 3rd pairing dman to go with Jackman would be very nice. It'd have to be someone that can move the puck though. Can't put a physical dman with Jax. He needs a puck mover.

 

[Dbrownss]

When I say top 4. I say top 4 quality to put on the 3rd pairing. The actual top 4 doesn't change

 

[STL fan in MN]

The big need is a 2nd line quality winger to put with Stastny. The winger would actually play with Stastny on our 3rd line but we need to get someone of better quality to put with Stastny. Put a 45-50 point winger on our 3rd line and it's going to be impossible to stop us at full health.

I'm a little surprised that one or two people said a top 4 d-man is our top need. Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester aren't being broken up nor should they be. They're playing very well since Christmas. Shattenkirk is firmly entrenched on the 2nd pairing as he should be. That leaves Gunnarsson as the odd man out and Hitch just yesterday called him a top 4 dman...which he is.

These 4 guys lack physicality but they do a great job handling the forecheck as they are very good at moving the puck up and out of the zone. Since 2012, Hitch and Army have seemingly put a premium on dmen that can transition the puck. I say "since 2012" because that is when LA suffocated our D with their relentless forecheck.

I can see wanting a guy that can step in and replace Gunnarsson in case he gets hurt again. That is more of a luxury, though.

Finding a right handed 3rd pairing dman to go with Jackman would be very nice. It'd have to be someone that can move the puck though. Can't put a physical dman with Jax. He needs a puck mover.

The original question was, "what do you think you need to add to your roster to make a deep playoff run?", and I think the Blues defense and lack of snarl on the blueline is their current biggest weakness come playoff time.

The Blues currently have the #1 offense in the Western Conference. Upgrading Bergy's position would be nice but it's by no means the top priority IMO. Let's just say that I respectfully disagree that our current top-4 handles a heavy forecheck well. They're fine in the regular season but in the playoffs, when the whistles get swallowed and the competition gets fiercer, this team is lacking at D IMO. Again, I think there's a near zero chance that the top-4 is upgraded to add a physical, nasty d-man as Army is clearly going for the pure puck moving D so that's the hill he's going to die on but that doesn't change what I think needs to be done to be a legit Cup contender.

Perhaps if adding a physical top-4 D isn't possible, then perhaps adding a 3rd pairing physical RD would be more possible. Both Butler and Cole are fine but having an actual righty shot in the position would be better. And again, I'd want that guy to bring a good amount of snarl/nastiness as well if possible. Of course, there are some teams in the league with 0-1 right-handed d-men so RDs are going to be at a super premium (like they always are) so getting that 3rd pairing RD is likely harder than many imagine.

 

[Stopsight]

A replacement for Berglund is a luxury, he has been playing well as of late and he is on pace for 30 points with a career low shooting percentage so that will probably go up a bit.

 

[Frenzy31]

I agree that our top need right now is a Scuderi/Stuart (Winn) type of dman. Kinda big and mean for the 3rd pairing. I don't know who else fits that bill or even if those guys are available.

I don't see a reason to mess with the PBJ line. Very silly to spend quality assets - which we don't have a ton of, for minor upgrade if that.

Let me put it back to you this way, you can't take player X and expect him to produce at his same productive rate while changing a lot of variables.

Take Vermette out of Phoenix, give him no PP time, 3 line playing time (19 minutes to 16), stick him on the wing and his production would be very similar to Berglund. (1/2 of his goals on the PP and over a 1/3 of his total points).

I am not saying that Berglund is better, up until Vermette's arrival in Phoenix, I would say they are similar players. But if we are upgrading the 3rd line, what do you expect out of the winger coming in. He likely, based on icetime wouldn't out produce Berglund.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I agree that our top need right now is a Scuderi/Stuart (Winn) type of dman. Kinda big and mean for the 3rd pairing. I don't know who else fits that bill or even if those guys are available.

I don't see a reason to mess with the PBJ line. Very silly to spend quality assets - which we don't have a ton of, for minor upgrade if that.

Let me put it back to you this way, you can't take player X and expect him to produce at his same productive rate while changing a lot of variables.

Take Vermette out of Phoenix, give him no PP time, 3 line playing time (19 minutes to 16), stick him on the wing and his production would be very similar to Berglund. (1/2 of his goals on the PP and over a 1/3 of his total points).

I am not saying that Berglund is better, up until Vermette's arrival in Phoenix, I would say they are similar players. But if we are upgrading the 3rd line, what do you expect out of the winger coming in. He likely, based on icetime wouldn't out produce Berglund.

Extremely good point. The situations a player will be put in absolutely have to be taken into account. Just look at Perron in EDM and how all of a sudden he's "amazing" now that he has the world's best player feeding him pucks. Way different situations. Similarly, Lindstrom is a depth forward for the Blues but if he was on a weak team, he'd likely be in their top-6 and getting decent PP time.

Regarding d-man, I think Scuderi is done. The Pens would LOVE for someone to take Scuds and his $3.375M annual salary that goes through 2017 off their hands. Scuds from 5 years ago would've been nice but knees are toast now. I think Winnipeg is a buyer, not a seller so I don't see them trading any of their good pieces away. Philly isn't going to make the playoffs so maybe they would entertain the idea of trading Coburn? The Blues would have to find a way to fit Coburn's $4.5M salary under their cap though. That and I don't see why Philly would want to trade him, even though they will likely be sellers at the trade deadline since he's a key cog to their defense and is signed for another year.

 

[Dbrownss]

Philly fans have offered him up but it was deals with 1 of our top 4 going their way....so idk about him by himself. I don't watch Philly games, so what's the report on him? I remember him being said to be a physical puck mover...that's what we're looking for.... what's his contract term?

 

[STL fan in MN]

Philly fans have offered him up but it was deals with 1 of our top 4 going their way....so idk about him by himself. I don't watch Philly games, so what's the report on him? I remember him being said to be a physical puck mover...that's what we're looking for.... what's his contract term?

$4.5M both this season and next season. He also has a Modified NTC so he can at least partially dictate where he goes...if he goes anywhere at all. Fans shopping him on message boards doesn't mean the Philly front office is actually looking to trade him.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

The original question was, "what do you think you need to add to your roster to make a deep playoff run?", and I think the Blues defense and lack of snarl on the blueline is their current biggest weakness come playoff time.

The Blues currently have the #1 offense in the Western Conference. Upgrading Bergy's position would be nice but it's by no means the top priority IMO. Let's just say that I respectfully disagree that our current top-4 handles a heavy forecheck well. They're fine in the regular season but in the playoffs, when the whistles get swallowed and the competition gets fiercer, this team is lacking at D IMO. Again, I think there's a near zero chance that the top-4 is upgraded to add a physical, nasty d-man as Army is clearly going for the pure puck moving D so that's the hill he's going to die on but that doesn't change what I think needs to be done to be a legit Cup contender.

Perhaps if adding a physical top-4 D isn't possible, then perhaps adding a 3rd pairing physical RD would be more possible. Both Butler and Cole are fine but having an actual righty shot in the position would be better. And again, I'd want that guy to bring a good amount of snarl/nastiness as well if possible. Of course, there are some teams in the league with 0-1 right-handed d-men so RDs are going to be at a super premium (like they always are) so getting that 3rd pairing RD is likely harder than many imagine.

Well I will definitely have to agree to disagree that our D's handling of the forecheck has been weak in the playoffs. It absolutely was in 2012 against LA. No disagreement on that series.
It wasn't close to a problem in 2013 when we actually dominated the Kings in puck possession(just not goals) and I'd say we had a slight edge last year. Considering we were going up against the best two teams in hockey the last two postseasons, I'm not concerned at all with the way the D handled the forecheck. I was actually impressed.

If it has seemed weak this year it is probably because Bouwmeester missed 7-8 games and Gunnarsson has missed about 20 games. Both guys are crucial to our ability to transition the puck up ice.

Improving the top 4 vs. improving the 3rd line comes down to wanting to improve over Carl Gunnarsson while solidifying the 3rd pairing or wanting to improve over Patrik Berglund and solidifying the 3rd line.

Gunnarsson isn't a problem on the 2nd pairing and Hitchcock was adamant about that yesterday. I agree that in an ideal world, he'd be more physical. Then we'd really be set. However, Gunnarsson is fine as is. Nothing special. Simply fine.

Berglund may not be a problem on the 3rd line either. He is working well with Stastny. I've seen this before, though. I can't trust Berglund. He comes and goes way too often.

Our strength in the playoffs is going to be our ability to roll three good to great forward lines. The opponent's top 2 pairings will focus on the STL and SOB lines. The third pairing will get Stastny's line. We need to exploit the hell out of that matchup.

As for strengthening the 3rd pairing, I'm not too against Chris Butler or Petteri Lindbohm sticking in that spot. I'm pretty much done with Cole. I still wouldn't mind a puck mover for the spot. Whoever it is will be playing with Jackman and he isn't very good against the forecheck. An agile skater and good passer would be more important qualities for Jax's partner than snarl IMO. If we can find someone with all three attributes, go get him. It'll likely cost us, though.

 

[Dbrownss]

$4.5M both this season and next season. He also has a Modified NTC so he can at least partially dictate where he goes...if he goes anywhere at all. Fans shopping him on message boards doesn't mean the Philly front office is actually looking to trade him.

Well that's kinda what we have to go on. Plus fan bases hear more rumors for their home team then the general base would.