Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training V1.0 - The Jay Bruce almost became a Blue Jay Edition

[Eyedea]

Sure. I dont doubt that he can do it once in while. But his numbers are still much better as a RF than CF and i know that isnt news to anyone. But he got that contract based off of what he can bring to the table offensive and defensively. If he was a league average defender then he probably isnt getting more than 50-60M based on his bat. He was and is an elite RF, why mess with that. Let him play the position he knows and maybe spend time working on his offensive rather than a new position which could lower his value. Though i can get on board that he could bring more value to the team as a whole as CF i just dont think his body would hold up over the course of a season. Seems too big to play CF long term. Too much ground to cover.

I just never seen a 6'5 250 pound player play an elite CF or CF for a long period of time and have success - i guess that's my main concern. I think the Cubs are playing with fire if they put him CF as it could affect his long term value (health). I guess there is no harm or foul if they dont like the fit as nothing is stopping him from moving back. But when you invest that kind of money in player then i think you should let him continue with what he was good at.

It is a moot point as it sounds like the Cubs are going with Fowler in CF which i think is the right choice.

My point is that he's so far and away the best defensive RF that he would still be elite in CF. Plenty of articles have surfaced over the years questioning why managers and organizations have refused to fully transition him to CF. Part of that reason is because his body profile is more suited to the corner, but his route efficiency and range is more than suitable or average for the position. Mike Trout is what, 6'2 230? I'm sure there's several other examples that I can't really bother to look up right now.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

He has good numbers leading off an inning so I don't see why its far fetched for him batting leadoff . It actually makes sense

Giving the most plate appearances to a player with a .310 wOBA seems like a poor choice no matter how you spin it.

 

[Discoverer]

He has good numbers leading off an inning so I don't see why its far fetched for him batting leadoff . It actually makes sense

With none out and none on, he has a .364 career OBP. That's seriously impressive. It's also based on a 184 plate appearance sample and a .355 BABIP, so...

I assume it's a matter of Tulo preferring not to hit leadoff, in which case you kind of have to work with what you have, but... Pillar?

Whatever, though. It should only be for a short time, and ultimately it won't make much of a difference over a month or so. Still... Martin. Martin!

 

[theaub]

I'm not really understanding the Martin hype. His OBP was marginally better and I think there is something to be said for having a bit of speed at the top of the order.

If Tulo's not hitting leadoff then Pillar's probably the best option (outside of going straight to the Donaldson/Bautista/Edwin/Tulo lineup)

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

With none out and none on, he has a .364 career OBP. That's seriously impressive. It's also based on a 184 plate appearance sample and a .355 BABIP, so...

I assume it's a matter of Tulo preferring not to hit leadoff, in which case you kind of have to work with what you have, but... Pillar?

Whatever, though. It should only be for a short time, and ultimately it won't make much of a difference over a month or so. Still... Martin. Martin!

If Tulo is uncomfortable, I vote for the zombified corpse of Michael Saunders against right handed pitching.

Come back soon, DeVo.

 

[theaub]

Also that 2-5 is groin grabbingly good damn

 

[KuleminFan41]

With none out and none on, he has a .364 career OBP. That's seriously impressive. It's also based on a 184 plate appearance sample and a .355 BABIP, so...

I assume it's a matter of Tulo preferring not to hit leadoff, in which case you kind of have to work with what you have, but... Pillar?

Whatever, though. It should only be for a short time, and ultimately it won't make much of a difference over a month or so. Still... Martin. Martin!

Giving the most plate appearances to a player with a .310 wOBA seems like a poor choice no matter how you spin it.

I don't know, I see potential in those numbers, especially seeing as he's 27 only. It's not as if they just said "screw it". I can see it working out at the very least he would be a capable lead off hitter. No one thought he'd take over CF last year, give the guy a shot you never know

 

[Discoverer]

I'm not really understanding the Martin hype. His OBP was marginally better and I think there is something to be said for having a bit of speed at the top of the order.

If Tulo's not hitting leadoff then Pillar's probably the best option (outside of going straight to the Donaldson/Bautista/Edwin/Tulo lineup)

I recommend Martin if if Tulo really doesn't want to. But no matter who ends up hitting leadoff, I recommend Martin hits in that spot every single time a lefty starts.

He has a .418 OBP against lefties the last two years.

Overall, though, he's still a much, much better hitter than Pillar.

 

[TootooTrain]

Goins is worse. Colabello will be platooned with Smoak to an extent so you won't see him every day. Seems like they want Tulo in the middle. In my opinion you don't want to have your catcher on his feet that much. Pillar/Saunders is pretty much the default until Travis gets back.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Goins is worse. Colabello will be platooned with Smoak to an extent so you won't see him every day. Seems like they want Tulo in the middle. In my opinion you don't want to have your catcher on his feet that much. Pillar/Saunders is pretty much the default until Travis gets back.

If Bizarro Ryan Goins shows up in camp, then he actually would be a decent leadoff man. But I'm assuming regular Goins shows up, and he should bat no where above 8th in the order.

 

[Discoverer]

Screw it, I vote for a Saunders/Martin platoon at leadoff.

Who hits there for a couple months won't make a huge difference, but intentionally giving extra at bats to one of your worst hitters just isn't a good strategy (and I say that fully understanding that Pillar could make some minor improvements to become a solid hitter).

 

[Eyedea]

Saunders/Pillar platoon at leadoff isn't a terrible temporary solution. We've seen teams (Royals) win with much worse at the top.

 

[Fantomas]

Oh, NM. Misread.

 

[p.l.f.]

tulo won't lead off
wilner is outraged lol

 

[zeke]

My point is that he's so far and away the best defensive RF that he would still be elite in CF. Plenty of articles have surfaced over the years questioning why managers and organizations have refused to fully transition him to CF. Part of that reason is because his body profile is more suited to the corner, but his route efficiency and range is more than suitable or average for the position. Mike Trout is what, 6'2 230? I'm sure there's several other examples that I can't really bother to look up right now.

It's not always that clearcut though.

Guys like Victorino, Suzuki, Winn (even Saunders) were able to put up excellent RF ratings in the same years that they were unplayable in CF by the numbers.

 

[zeke]

Would you rather trade Tulo and keep both EE and Bautista? Or keep Tulo and keep only 1? Do you like this team with Tulo+only 1 of EE/Bautista. Or EE+Bautista-Tulo?

keep Tulo.

He's still rating excellent defense at an elite defensive position, which will give him very good value even if his bat drops to mediocre. And he's only just past age 30, which should mean he has plenty of production left. And he's signed for cheaper than what either of them will cost.

my idea to save money (after signing price) was always just to let one of Joey or EE go....but I wouldn't have made that decision until seeing what they did this season. Losing one of their offense next year would hurt but we could make up plenty of their value defensively with a pompey-pillar-alford ridiculous defense OF.

 

[zeke]

And I still say Pompey steals the starting LF and leadoff spot in spring.

 

[Discoverer]

keep Tulo.

He's still rating excellent defense at an elite defensive position, which will give him very good value even if his bat drops to mediocre. And he's only just past age 30, which should mean he has plenty of production left. And he's signed for cheaper than what either of them will cost.

my idea to save money (after signing price) was always just to let one of Joey or EE go....but I wouldn't have made that decision until seeing what they did this season. Losing one of their offense next year would hurt but we could make up plenty of their value defensively with a pompey-pillar-alford ridiculous defense OF.

That's an outfield you can really dream on, considering none of them is/projects to be a black hole offensively, either.

Prediction: Anthony Alford adds a bit of power in the first half of the season and starts to show up as a borderline Top-10 prospect in baseball by the time mid-season updates come out, and gets some MLB action in September.

 

[zeke]

I still can't quite believe that a crazy raw athlete like Alford has such a natural batting eye and strike zone instincts. I was totally expecting a free swinger. He can be a great player even without the power but if more power comes damn he looks good.

 

[Discoverer]

And I still say Pompey steals the starting LF and leadoff spot in spring.

While I expect him to start in Buffalo, I'm still really high on him, so I would be completely OK with this.

 

[Discoverer]

I still can't quite believe that a crazy raw athlete like Alford has such a natural batting eye and strike zone instincts. I was totally expecting a free swinger. He can be a great player even without the power but if more power comes damn he looks good.

Yeah, that's why I have such high expectations. You hear about athletic, project-type guys all the time, and you assume they have great tools and just need to hone the approach a little bit. His approach, especially for his age, is already amazing. The inexperience just makes it that much more impressive.

 

[Apotheosis]

I think that Sanchez has that potential to be a top of the rotation starter.

I still think he needs more actual pitching variation to be a top of the rotation guy. Could you imagine how ridiculous our team would have been last year with Noah and Stroman at the top?

OT: Hypothetically speaking (PURE HYPOTHETICALS; I am not saying to do this trade, just bored and wondering his value) if the Jays came out and said they wanted to trade for Noah, who would you be willing to give up on the current roster and what would your hypothetical trade look like?

 

[Apotheosis]

Would you rather trade Tulo and keep both EE and Bautista? Or keep Tulo and keep only 1? Do you like this team with Tulo+only 1 of EE/Bautista. Or EE+Bautista-Tulo?

Tulo and EE. Age plus we can compensate thanks to Donaldson and Martin. If we can move Bautista for elite pitching, I do it.

 

[Apotheosis]

What's the scouting report on this Alford guy? I hadn't of heard about him, but out of nowhere he's our top prospect?

 

[p.l.f.]

any leadoff hitters avail with one yr left on their contracts who can play lf?