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Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training V1.0 - The Jay Bruce almost became a Blue Jay Edition

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dredeye

dredeye

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zeke said:
Desclafani isn't very good, and is pretty much the prototypical NL-only pitcher, anyways.
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He's not a high ceiling pitcher but still should have a pretty respectable career. He came up quickly and is still young
 
phillipmike

phillipmike

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Eyedea said:
Heyward is a +20 defender in RF. There's a 10 run difference in positional adjustment which would still classify Heyward among the best defensive CF in the game. Fowler on the other hand is very bad.
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I dont know man. Like SS and catcher, CF is a different ball game to the other positions.

Heyward's strength was playing RF, that was why he got his money. I dont like giving big contracts to guys based on what they did and move them to a new position. Just doesnt set well with me. I didnt like it for Hanley. I dont like the move for Sano. Lawrie to 2B. Cespedes from LF to CF

If you move someone from a more labour intensive position to a less labour intensice position then i am fine with it. (i.e. Donaldson from C to 3B, A-Rod from SS to 3B, Mauer from C to 1B OR new ones expected to happen this season; Betts from CF to RF, Castro from SS to 2B) But not the other way around. If anyone can move from RF to CF its Heyward... I still dont like paying someone to play a position he hasnt played a significant amount of time at in the MLB. If he is successful at one position then keep him there. CF is a MUCH bigger animal than RF. It could have had an affect on his bat. I really hope they leave him in RF.
 
Shimso

Shimso

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I can't believe it's just about a month until it all starts! Can't figure out if I should go to the opener or to the weekend based on Stro/Price probably not going on the opening day.
 
Cor

Cor

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Jose wants 150+ million dollars while Edwin wants 40 home runs.

Tells me all I need to know
 
Eyedea

Eyedea

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phillipmike said:
I dont know man. Like SS and catcher, CF is a different ball game to the other positions.

Heyward's strength was playing RF, that was why he got his money. I dont like giving big contracts to guys based on what they did and move them to a new position. Just doesnt set well with me. I didnt like it for Hanley. I dont like the move for Sano. Lawrie to 2B. Cespedes from LF to CF

If you move someone from a more labour intensive position to a less labour intensice position then i am fine with it. (i.e. Donaldson from C to 3B, A-Rod from SS to 3B, Mauer from C to 1B OR new ones expected to happen this season; Betts from CF to RF, Castro from SS to 2B) But not the other way around. If anyone can move from RF to CF its Heyward... I still dont like paying someone to play a position he hasnt played a significant amount of time at in the MLB. If he is successful at one position then keep him there. CF is a MUCH bigger animal than RF. It could have had an affect on his bat. I really hope they leave him in RF.
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Usually that's the case, but Heyward has shown (through small samples) elite defence at CF. He has played it through the minors, he has played it in the regular season at times, and he has also been put into that situation in the postseason. If anything he should have been a full time CF a long time ago. Knowing that managers have relied on him to field that position though in the postseason also means that they are comfortable with him performing at a good rate, and he has shown that. Jim Edmonds was a case that was thrusted around his first couple of seasons playing RF, CF, LF, and even 1B. Sure enough he became one of the top all-round CFs during his career. Shane Victorino is another case.
 

hoc123

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What do you think it would take to re-sign Edwin. Most recent contracts that are close in age, performance and was (or should have been) DH's are Victor Martinez (4-68) and Nelson Cruz (4-56) and even they didn't have Edwin's consistency. I think it takes 4-80M
 
phillipmike

phillipmike

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Eyedea said:
Usually that's the case, but Heyward has shown (through small samples) elite defence at CF. He has played it through the minors, he has played it in the regular season at times, and he has also been put into that situation in the postseason. If anything he should have been a full time CF a long time ago. Knowing that managers have relied on him to field that position though in the postseason also means that they are comfortable with him performing at a good rate, and he has shown that. Jim Edmonds was a case that was thrusted around his first couple of seasons playing RF, CF, LF, and even 1B. Sure enough he became one of the top all-round CFs during his career. Shane Victorino is another case.
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Sure. I dont doubt that he can do it once in while. But his numbers are still much better as a RF than CF and i know that isnt news to anyone. But he got that contract based off of what he can bring to the table offensive and defensively. If he was a league average defender then he probably isnt getting more than 50-60M based on his bat. He was and is an elite RF, why mess with that. Let him play the position he knows and maybe spend time working on his offensive rather than a new position which could lower his value. Though i can get on board that he could bring more value to the team as a whole as CF i just dont think his body would hold up over the course of a season. Seems too big to play CF long term. Too much ground to cover.

I just never seen a 6'5 250 pound player play an elite CF or CF for a long period of time and have success - i guess that's my main concern. I think the Cubs are playing with fire if they put him CF as it could affect his long term value (health). I guess there is no harm or foul if they dont like the fit as nothing is stopping him from moving back. But when you invest that kind of money in player then i think you should let him continue with what he was good at.

It is a moot point as it sounds like the Cubs are going with Fowler in CF which i think is the right choice.
 
dredeye

dredeye

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hoc123 said:
What do you think it would take to re-sign Edwin. Most recent contracts that are close in age, performance and was (or should have been) DH's are Victor Martinez (4-68) and Nelson Cruz (4-56) and even they didn't have Edwin's consistency. I think it takes 4-80M
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I wouldn't have much issue with those dollars and term. Would hope for a little less but I'm sure that's a dream. Keeping EE guarantees Jose is gone at years end. There's only room for one of them going forward. Unless one agreed to a two year deal which we all know is never happening.
 
Suntouchable13

Suntouchable13

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Would you rather trade Tulo and keep both EE and Bautista? Or keep Tulo and keep only 1? Do you like this team with Tulo+only 1 of EE/Bautista. Or EE+Bautista-Tulo?
 
Stand Witness

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Suntouchable13 said:
I'd rather the team invest money in Bautista. I think he is the better player/hitter. Maybe some people will disagree with me, though.
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He is but for the $ amount it will be to keep Jose and the remaining useful years as a OF I think EE would be the better investment. Cheaper and they both are likely DHs in a couple years. EE is younger and not too far away from being the same hitter.
 

Discoverer

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Suntouchable13 said:
Would you rather trade Tulo and keep both EE and Bautista? Or keep Tulo and keep only 1? Do you like this team with Tulo+only 1 of EE/Bautista. Or EE+Bautista-Tulo?
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If those are your options, it's easily Tulo and one of the others. Tulo is an elite player providing great defense at an up-the-middle position. You don't pick two defensive liabilities/DH types over that.
 
theaub

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I like Edwin's answers but find it funny when he signed an extension right in the middle of 2012
 
TootooTrain

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theaub said:
I like Edwin's answers but find it funny when he signed an extension right in the middle of 2012
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Different scenario. That was his breakout campaign. He wanted to cash in as soon as possible. I think he can afford to be picky with a longer track record under his belt.
 
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