OT: Spoiler Alert [Spoiler Alert ((Spoiler Alert))] (The Newly Annual Non-Pens Media Thread)

[DanielPlainview]

I'd call the books meandering brutality. It isn't confusing despite the many storylines. The ways it's written helps

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

I'm surprised I was never drawn to GoT.

Peter Dinklage should have had me at least check it out.

He was certainly great but I had only seen him in Elf and The Station Agent when I first watched GOT. For me, it was Sean Bean that got me interested in it in the first place.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Re GoT:

I don't really mind all of the outcomes, but it certainly seems like the cliff notes version of it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean HBO is the king of disappointing last seasons.

That last season of the Wire basically made me hate that show.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I mean HBO is the king of disappointing last seasons.

That last season of the Wire basically made me hate that show.

Sorry for you on that. Final episode let me wanting (nothing nearly as horrific as GoT last night), but the last season had tons of good. Loved the fold in of the Baltimore Sun, etc. There was a helluva lot of quality cleanup in S5 of The Wire I thought, as well as a lot of social examination that went over my head.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sorry for you on that. Final episode let me wanting (nothing nearly as horrific as GoT last night), but the last season had tons of good. Loved the fold in of the Baltimore Sun, etc. There was a helluva lot of quality cleanup in S5 of The Wire I thought, as well as a lot of social examination that went over my head.

McNulty being a fake serial killer and getting away with it was one of the dumbest arcs I’ve ever seen.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

McNulty being a fake serial killer and getting away with it was one of the dumbest arcs I’ve ever seen.

I thought he was always above the law in his mind, and he did get busted and retired rather than face humiliation IIRC. Not a strong arc, I agree, but ****, The Wire, essentially by itself, got me back into television. Viewed in totality, I think it was amazing. And if Omar somehow shows up in the slime with Wu in the Deadwood movie, I'll rationalize that **** too... ;-)

 

[Ogrezilla]

The last season of the wire is the weakest of the series, but it's still far better than got s8 imo. It's the opposite problem for me. Got had fine plot points but butchered the Characters to get there. The wire s5 serial killer plot was a mess, but it still handled the characters well. So I don't love what happened, but I still cared about all of the characters. I straight up didn't care what was happening to any of the main characters in got s8 after Jorah at the battle of Winterfell.

Spoiler

scenes like Mike killing snoop were far more emotional than Jon killing Dany because

The majority of the epilogue from the final got episode felt like it should have had a laugh track. That was some of the worst tv I can remember watching.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The strongest part of that last season of the Wire is how it shows the cyclical nature of the cycles of poverty and corruption- the system corrupts McNulty and he becomes exactly the kind of police officer he despised in season 1, Clay Davis gets off and brings new politicians into his circle, Carver becomes the new Daniels, Omar is killed, but another stick up boy takes his place.

Again, maybe not individually as satisfying, but totally in line with the themes and ethos of the show.

 

[HandshakeLine]

For my money, Carnivale has the worst ending of any HBO series, bar none.

 

[BladeRunner66]

For my money, Carnivale has the worst ending of any HBO series, bar none.

Wasn't it canceled tho?

I mean i liked that series but how good an end can it be when it gets cancelled. This said, when you don't have time to do it well you still can, take Angel for example.

 

[BladeRunner66]

It was generally not well-received but I've watched The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy at least two dozen times

I get that & in both cases i think InterStellar & HGttG, most people simply didn't get it & it's perfectly understandable.

Other movies i keep getting back to are Kubrick's made, like Clockwork Orange & especially 2001 which looks better than SW that was made later.

The photography in Space Odyssey is phenomenal. It still blasts me to this day.

 

[Shrimper]

Episode 3 of Chernboyl is horrifying.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Wasn't it canceled tho?

I mean i liked that series but how good an end can it be when it gets cancelled. This said, when you don't have time to do it well you still can, take Angel for example.

I mean they were all canceled except for GoT. But as much as we might have wanted more from The Wire or Deadwood, for the most part they ended them okay. Carnivale has a good premise, great visuals and cast, and totally wasted all of it.

Also Treme’s 4th season kinda sucked at the time,, but I ended up really liking it after a rewatch, so YMMV.

 

[LOGiK]

Episode 3 of Chernboyl is horrifying.

As in the episode sucks or the situation of the episode is bad?

I'm about to watch it in a few minutes I sure hope episode 3 isn't a waste of an hour, but after got finale, nothing can be as bad.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Spoiler

GoT ending is trash. The show was too great to end this way, **** whoever approved this mess.

I’m putting this on Morehouse

f*** the spoiler tag, it's Tuesday, if you haven't seen it yet, tough nuts.

The show ended fine, the biggest issue people have is that they built it up into something they wanted it to be and hoped it would be and made it into a giant spectacle into their own heads. Then there was a long break and people sort of forgot what the show really was like, Season 8 rolls around, a little rushed, but basically the same crap and people freak the f*** out.

It ended likely no better nor worse than how GRRM will end things. People seem to really forget his books, if people crap on the last few seasons, I really wonder if these same people ever read the books at all or pretend to read them and have a hive mentality for claiming the fan boys own opinions as their own. The books are not great, they're decent, but they also meander a hell of a lot more than they should for a guy that wanted to make his own LOTR but with incest and random murders.

I can't help but laugh at the countless people that wanted to cancel their subscriptions like morons and whined about this finale so much.

Go outside, get a life, it's a show...there will be many more that will build up your hype and then crush you because you made it into something it never was.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You're allowed to like the show. We are allowed to dislike it. The problems are much deeper than being a little rushed, at least with the finale. Everything from the counsel scene onward was just nonsensical.

I think the books are much better than the last two seasons. That includes the last two books. Seasons 5 and 6 are worse than the first four, but that's when the books went downhill too. That's not my issue. A lot of the plot changes made perfect sense for the show. Sending Sansa to Ramsay was a good idea. Cutting fAegon was a good idea probably. My issue isn't with it being different than the books, it's being so different than the show it used to be.
And the show absolutely was something different for a while. We didn't forget because of the long break. The show drastically changed after season 6 I'd say. That's when it fully committed to spectacle and shock value over world building and character development.

It's not the worst ending ever. The main points up through the throne room scene are fine. But the stuff after that was legit bad, not just rushed. It's not ruining my life, but it's still a badly written ending.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

GOT:

Spoiler

Once Jon killed Dany, the whole thing was nonsensical. Jon is captured but not killed, okay, they want to use him as a bargaining piece, I get it. But, he gets sent to the Night's Watch? Is there still a Night's Watch? There's a huge hole in the wall at Eastwatch, nobody left the protect the realm against with wildlings now living in peace with everyone else and the white walkers defeated. Plus, Sam is still a member of the Night's Watch....he can't just leave to a be a Grand Maestor in the Capital. Wait, how did he become a Grand Maestor so quick? Plus Grey Worm ***** off anyway so if Sam is clearly free of his vows (both Maestors and Night's watch members can't have wives or father children), what's to stop Jon from just leaving to wherever he wants? Is Grey Worm going to find out and come back?

Bran is made King because....he has a cool story, bro? Plus everyone agrees just like that? What has Bran ever shown in the show that would make him a good ruler? Sansa says the North would never accept another king and should be free (despite the fact that king would be Ned Stark's eldest son, you know, their actual leader) so she gets independence, like there always was before the Targs. Yeah, every other major house in the seven kingdoms had their own king too, you dimwit. That's why they were called the 7 KINGDOMS. Yet, nobody else objects or asks for their own independence? Not Dorne? Not the Iron Islands? Seriously?

 

[billybudd]

GOT:

Spoiler

But, he gets sent to the Night's Watch? Is there still a Night's Watch?

Spoiler

No, but the only person of influence who understands the Night's Watch enough to realize that there can never be a Night's Watch is Sansa (and possibly Tyrion). She pulled a fast one on the anti-Jon factions by suggesting this as a compromise.

In practice, Jon's "punishment" was to give up his claims to the 6 Kingdoms and the North and join the Free Folk as their King Beyond the Wall (which he already was when he rode south). This explains why Val gets so much ink dedicated to her in the books. Val allows Jon to end the story by becoming Mance Rayder.

It's true that there's nothing structural to stop Jon from just heading back to Winterfell, in that only the North has always enforced NW desertion policies and Sansa wouldn't enforce such a thing against Jon, but, in his heart, Jon's a wildling and wouldn't pursue that course of action.

As far as Bran goes, leaving aside the abruptness and ridiculousness of the nature of his election, he's a disinterested party who is incapable of engaging in medieval clan cronyism and is uninterested in the particularities of ruling. He can't be bribed by any faction for favoritism, which, combined with his lack of engagement in current affairs, distributes power between the various interests, at least in theory. He's representative of a decentralized federalist system. Now, this new system of federalized, decentralized elective monarchy isn't going to work past Bran's lifespan (Bronn would end up as the next King and all the corrupting forces Bran was installed to blunt would come back with a vengeance under his administration), but that's a whole other topic of discussion.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Jon walking back in to Castle Black

 

[LOGiK]

Jon walking back in to Castle Black

Too bad he didn't have Ygritte to spend all his time with... but he does in real life since Kit married her... I don't blame him one bit.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

GOT:

Spoiler

Once Jon killed Dany, the whole thing was nonsensical. Jon is captured but not killed, okay, they want to use him as a bargaining piece, I get it. But, he gets sent to the Night's Watch? Is there still a Night's Watch? There's a huge hole in the wall at Eastwatch, nobody left the protect the realm against with wildlings now living in peace with everyone else and the white walkers defeated. Plus, Sam is still a member of the Night's Watch....he can't just leave to a be a Grand Maestor in the Capital. Wait, how did he become a Grand Maestor so quick? Plus Grey Worm ***** off anyway so if Sam is clearly free of his vows (both Maestors and Night's watch members can't have wives or father children), what's to stop Jon from just leaving to wherever he wants? Is Grey Worm going to find out and come back?

Bran is made King because....he has a cool story, bro? Plus everyone agrees just like that? What has Bran ever shown in the show that would make him a good ruler? Sansa says the North would never accept another king and should be free (despite the fact that king would be Ned Stark's eldest son, you know, their actual leader) so she gets independence, like there always was before the Targs. Yeah, every other major house in the seven kingdoms had their own king too, you dimwit. That's why they were called the 7 KINGDOMS. Yet, nobody else objects or asks for their own independence? Not Dorne? Not the Iron Islands? Seriously?

I honestly like Last Kingdom and Knightfall a lot more than game of failures.

 

[3074326]

Spoiler

No, but the only person of influence who understands the Night's Watch enough to realize that there can never be a Night's Watch is Sansa (and possibly Tyrion). She pulled a fast one on the anti-Jon factions by suggesting this as a compromise.

In practice, Jon's "punishment" was to give up his claims to the 6 Kingdoms and the North and join the Free Folk as their King Beyond the Wall (which he already was when he rode south). This explains why Val gets so much ink dedicated to her in the books. Val allows Jon to end the story by becoming Mance Rayder.

It's true that there's nothing structural to stop Jon from just heading back to Winterfell, in that only the North has always enforced NW desertion policies and Sansa wouldn't enforce such a thing against Jon, but, in his heart, Jon's a wildling and wouldn't pursue that course of action.

As far as Bran goes, leaving aside the abruptness and ridiculousness of the nature of his election, he's a disinterested party who is incapable of engaging in medieval clan cronyism and is uninterested in the particularities of ruling. He can't be bribed by any faction for favoritism, which, combined with his lack of engagement in current affairs, distributes power between the various interests, at least in theory. He's representative of a decentralized federalist system. Now, this new system of federalized, decentralized elective monarchy isn't going to work past Bran's lifespan (Bronn would end up as the next King and all the corrupting forces Bran was installed to blunt would come back with a vengeance under his administration), but that's a whole other topic of discussion.

Spoiler

My biggest issue (among other issues) with Bran being king is the very short lifespan of kings and Bran's apparent importance to the world. The Night King was trying to kill Bran because he is the memory of the world. It would seem that keeping him out of sight and isolated (like the previous three-eyed raven hidden in the wilderness in a cave under a tree) would be a better idea than making him king - the literal opposite of hidden. Also, Jon was the heir to the throne and alive. And the council all liked him, told him he would be a great king. Just holes upon holes. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me.

Ultimately, the biggest issue of all is that we're left to try and piece the stories together because the show did a horrible job of telling the story of the events that were summarized for us in 6 episodes. It's kind of absurd that they spent all this time building a story and we're here after it's over trying to figure out what happened in between the moments we saw. Examples: Why are there so many Dothraki left? How did Jon become a prisoner? How did the other characters handle the murder of the queen? Did Varys get any letters out? If not, how is that possible? If so, the ending makes no sense at all. Why did everyone tell Jon how great of a king he would be just to not even mention his name during the new king discussion. One would think, at very least, his name would be brought up when discussing the new king.

I know I sound super mad. I'm not, just disappointed. My days have not been full of sorrow and anger since Sunday. Just a little frustration when GOT comes up. Overall, I can accept what happened before Dany's death. After that is a brief period of WTF.

 

[billybudd]

Spoiler

My biggest issue (among other issues) with Bran being king is the very short lifespan of kings and Bran's apparent importance to the world. The Night King was trying to kill Bran because he is the memory of the world. It would seem that keeping him out of sight and isolated (like the previous three-eyed raven hidden in the wilderness in a cave under a tree) would be a better idea than making him king - the literal opposite of hidden. Also, Jon was the heir to the throne and alive. And the council all liked him, told him he would be a great king. Just holes upon holes. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me.

Ultimately, the biggest issue of all is that we're left to try and piece the stories together because the show did a horrible job of telling the story of the events that were summarized for us in 6 episodes. It's kind of absurd that they spent all this time building a story and we're here after it's over trying to figure out what happened in between the moments we saw. Examples: Why are there so many Dothraki left? How did Jon become a prisoner? How did the other characters handle the murder of the queen? Did Varys get any letters out? If not, how is that possible? If so, the ending makes no sense at all. Why did everyone tell Jon how great of a king he would be just to not even mention his name during the new king discussion. One would think, at very least, his name would be brought up when discussing the new king.

I know I sound super mad. I'm not, just disappointed. My days have not been full of sorrow and anger since Sunday. Just a little frustration when GOT comes up. Overall, I can accept what happened before Dany's death. After that is a brief period of WTF.

Spoiler

They didn't do a good job of spelling this out, but the council did not like Jon. Gendry liked him and Sansa liked him (the North didn't vote, so Sansa's opinion on the identity of the King would be irrelevant), but that's basically it. The Ironborn and, presumably, Dorne wanted him executed. The Vale and Riverlands would have been indifferent at best. I don't recall if the Reach was represented, but they wouldn't back him either. And the Westerlands, insofar as they were represented, preferred and nominated somebody else.

Jon represents an uncompromising figure. An uncompromising figure is not necessarily someone powerful people want lording over them. Stannis, for example, had no backing except from the late Ned Stark. Tywin had to use extreme coercive measures to achieve cooperation from the lords beneath him. With Bran, from their perspective, there's a figurehead leading the realm, which better serves their interests than someone like Jon, since the real central power is vested in the council, not the crown--and all factions are to be represented on the council, presumably, eventually.

I do agree that the show did a terrible job getting from, say, the beginning of season 6 to the show's ending. Just awful. But the end state--where all the pieces end up--does strike me as logical and natural story progression (from what's in the books so far, anyway), with the notable exceptions of the Others, the Unsullied and the Dothraki. And, incidentally, I regard the episode of the war against the Others to be one of the worst hours of television I've ever sat through, so I'm also a little angry about the disservice that was done there.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Robert Baratheon should be king!