Speculation: Source of the "divide" in the room

[CaptainChef]

This. A lot of wild speculation going on with tiny bits of partial information as the building blocks and cemented together with cherry picked stats. People seem to need to point fingers and put together some grand conspiracy theory of what went wrong.

When it comes down to it we were a good but not great team that lost in the 1st round in a coin flip series to a team we ended up tied with in points. Did we underachieve, yes but not to some egregious amount. Not nearly to the extent as some others most notably TB. This version of the Jets is about a 1st or 2nd round exit level team with a glaring inability to hold onto 3rd period leads. Next year's team will look a lot different and hopefully comes together to be greater than the sum of its parts. And no not everyone will be besties and yes there will be some internal conflict along the way as there is on any team.

Thats fine. But I think most on here feel that we are a very good team that underperformed to a great degree this year. Given the talent we have assembled here, there is no way we should accept a first round exit just because some other good teams did the same.

Its clear there is a divide in the room. If this isn't nipped in the bud correctly during the offseason, I can't see us going anywhere terribly fast. Most here seem to feel that its either Wheels or Maurice that are the main culprits for the divide. Since neither is about to be demoted, this team has a long uphill climb to make it back to where they were last year -- stanley cup favorites.

 

[ovythegiraffe]

I know nothing about those claimed locker room issues, but I do know potential sources for such issues:

Totally unfair disciplining / punishment culture, stupid and unfair TOI and role/opportunity distribution.

Certain veterans seems to be simply untouchable by Maurice regardless how stupid penalties they take or how lazy they defend. Younger guys get punished harsly occasionally in comparison. That's unfairness that doesn't only affect those that got mistreated, but also those who were benefactors.

Certain line combinations are not touched even if they don't work at all for an extended period, like CSW was for 10+ games in the early season for example. Only thing Maurice did change was that he increased their TOI even more, which was absurd.

It would also help if Maurice takes some responsibility and doesn't just throw others under the bus. Also PoMo, do not promise increased TOI/role, if you end up with decreasing TOI/role. That doesn't exactly build trust.

The TOI stuff is really quite absurd when looking at the numbers. For the first 50 games Scheifele was 3rd in the league in TOI among forwards. Only trailing Barkov and McDavid. Wheeler was 10th at that point.

Now there's good reasons why guys like McDavid, Barkov, Kane, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Rantanen, etc. are getting huge minutes straight from the start, but it makes no sense in the Jets. 1) Scheif isn't a McDavid level player, and 2) Jets aren't a one line team, far from it.

This comes from some kind of a mixture of inflated egos and coach having an insane favorite system, and will absolutely cause some frustration in the locker room. There needs to be a fair system that balances having trust in players and not punishing from every little mistake while still giving a chance for everyone to earn more responsibilities.

 

[Trinity]

Hey, I'm just asking for sources because yeah...people lie or infer things from sound bites all the time. People are scripting an HBO drama out of single quotes here. "not enough Mark and Blake to go around" = Blake is the GM.

I'm not a liar. If you don't believe me, then go watch it for yourself.

 

[Trinity]

The TOI stuff is really quite absurd when looking at the numbers. For the first 50 games Scheifele was 3rd in the league in TOI among forwards. Only trailing Barkov and McDavid. Wheeler was 10th at that point.

Now there's good reasons why guys like McDavid, Barkov, Kane, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Rantanen, etc. are getting huge minutes straight from the start, but it makes no sense in the Jets. 1) Scheif isn't a McDavid level player, and 2) Jets aren't a one line team, far from it.

This comes from some kind of a mixture of inflated egos and coach having an insane favorite system, and will absolutely cause some frustration in the locker room. There needs to be a fair system that balances having trust in players and not punishing from every little mistake while still giving a chance for everyone to earn more responsibilities.

Agreed, and the strength of our team is it's depth, and Maurice simply is not taking advantage of that strength.

 

[Positive]

Thats fine. But I think most on here feel that we are a very good team that underperformed to a great degree this year. Given the talent we have assembled here, there is no way we should accept a first round exit just because some other good teams did the same.

Its clear there is a divide in the room. If this isn't nipped in the bud correctly during the offseason, I can't see us going anywhere terribly fast. Most here seem to feel that its either Wheels or Maurice that are the main culprits for the divide. Since neither is about to be demoted, this team has a long uphill climb to make it back to where they were last year -- stanley cup favorites.

I don't think that's clear at all. It's fuzzy at best. I'll ask a fourth time. Who is on which side of the divide? Actual players. Don't just say 'Young guys and vets'. Too nebulous. Where are Ehlers? Connor? Perreault and Little? Bucky?

I think this team is tighter than we think, but probably just not as good as we think.

 

[Mooche]

The "hands off" approach from Maurice not only on the ice, but off the ice, is extremely detrimental to this team.

He has his guys (Wheeler, Buff, etc.) and he let's them dictate the room. Unfortunately, in doing so, he creates factions within the room. When you put the veterans on a pedestal on and off the ice problems tend to snowball. That's not a recipe for success in any business.

I know a lot of people feel comfortable about settling their head firm in the sand and brushing these reports off. However, where there is smoke there is likely fire and things have seemingly have escalated in the room.

Chevy has a tall order this offseason. He not only has to figure out things financially for this club, but must address the issues (coach, players) and get down to the bottom of the issues that exist within this group.

 

[Trinity]

I could see Chevy making a bold move this offseason by trading Buff for draft picks, and using that money to re-sign Trouba to a long-term contract. It'd be a smart move from a longer term perspective (Buff is getting older and is injured more), and could help to fix the locker room too.

 

[Gotaf7]

Definitive source, please? I don't believe that was ever said.

I'll ask a third time. Which youngsters? Tanev, Copp, Lowry are all the same age or older than Scheifele. The other ones getting bottom-six minutes are Perreault and Little. Who are 31. Who in this story are the complaining young guys?

Young guy not guys = Laine!

 

[CaptainChef]

Not accurate. Have a gander at Jonathon Marchessault. King of the 'hats.

After last night's loss to SJ, he actually said this:

"They called five minutes for that? Why don't you have hockey replay or something? It changed the whole outcome of the game," forward Jonathan Marchessault said. "Seriously. What is that? It's so disappointing. . The game is not even close, it's 3-0. Call the two, OK, but a five? With something you don't even see? You just called the outcome. It's a joke, that's what it is. It's embarrassing."

++++++++

On so many levels, these comments are asinine. This is a treatise, a poster child of all things brainless and brutal. What's really revealing and embarrassing is Marchessault's indignance. Fact - Pavelski's head is badly damaged. After the brutal crosscheck by Eakin, wherein he hit the ice off-balance, he was knocked out cold, blood all over the ice. Not pretty. And the coach, players and fans of the VGK complain about the call. And oh hey, how about this: try to defend and not get scored on 4 times in five minutes? Absolutely self-servicing tripe dished up by this player/genius.

Try this thought experiment: Insert Wheeler for Marchesssault and have him say the same things. Context is important, but in general, hockey players are not sought out for their overarching wisdom, sagicity and solemnity in the face of a bad loss.

Really! I don't mind Marchessault's comments one bit. Did you see the hit, by itself it didn't even justify a 2 minute penalty the way they call penalties in the playoffs. Cross checking a guy in the chest when he has the puck is not at all warranted for a 5 minute major. It was Pavs getting dangled up with Stastny that did all the damage. And that didn't deserve anything either. Just a terrible result from an ordinary cross-check.

I don't care how much we enjoy Vegas getting the short end of the stick, a 5 minute major at that stage of the game was just terribly gross. All Vagas players and fans have to feel so ripped off. Something had to be said & he said it

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

I am truly shocked anyone thinks Trouba wants to stay here a minute longer than what is necessary. He needs to be traded and we need to move on.

 

[CaptainChef]

TSN had an article the other day quoting Wheeler that basically he’d go through a wall for Maurice and that Maurice was beyond reproach. That bugged me, because your captain is basically telling your GM, players, fans, and media that Maurice shouldn’t be touched. Maybe other players don’t feel the same way?

It was a little much for me, and if there are players who don’t dig Maurice, they will feel like Wheeler doesn’t have THEIR backs.

Therein lies the problem for sure. Maurice loves Wheels, and Wheels loves the freedom Maurice gives him. But how it done and the resultant favortism is rubbing many players the wrong way no doubt about it. Of course Wheels will say Maurice is the best coach ever

 

[Board Bard]

Definitive source, please? I don't believe that was ever said.

I'll ask a third time. Which youngsters? Tanev, Copp, Lowry are all the same age or older than Scheifele. The other ones getting bottom-six minutes are Perreault and Little. Who are 31. Who in this story are the complaining young guys?

I can't imagine Tanev has any complaints, Maurice has given more ice time than he could have expected. Copp was pissed off at being yanked for the last playoff game last year and he clearly likes center more than wing, so he's a possibility. Lowry gets lots of ice time, too much to complain about and he probably likes his role. Roslovic is possible but I think he's too green to be expecting much. How can Connor complain with all his opportunities on the first line and PP1? That pretty much leaves Ehlers and Laine, if in fact it's young guys who are complaining. Do they have a case? I think the answer depends on how one feels about their performance and potential, and Maurice as a coach. Personally I think Maurice could have taught them better and used them better.

Apart from the young guys, maybe Perreault is dissatisfied with what his situation has become. Didn't Buff complain in his own inimitable way that one game when Trouba stayed on the PP? Little might have a beef about the carousel he's been on or some of his linemates, but I don't think he's prone to disruptive behaviour.

 

[razorsedge]

Divide is probably just frustration over losing more than winning after last season. Wheeler seems like an emotionally charged player that might of rubbed a few players the wrong way this season.

If there is a divide, I would think the coach would be at the center of it.

 

[King Woodballs]

I am truly shocked anyone thinks Trouba wants to stay here a minute longer than what is necessary. He needs to be traded and we need to move on.

The jets needed to move on two+ years ago.....

 

[Analyst365]

It's pretty much flat earther stuff on here now. People are just going to believe their own version of the truth, and explain away anything in the contrary.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I think we need to start putting together something like this so we can track who is feuding with whom as rumours become available.

 

[DashingDane]

Definitive source, please? I don't believe that was ever said.

I'll ask a third time. Which youngsters? Tanev, Copp, Lowry are all the same age or older than Scheifele. The other ones getting bottom-six minutes are Perreault and Little. Who are 31. Who in this story are the complaining young guys?

This is all speculation from everyone so far so no one really knows...
My guess would be Wheeler and Scheifele on one side and Laine and Ehlers is on the opposite. Not sure where everyone else would land in that equation. I suspect Connor would be with the vets and someone like Frenchy with the Euros.

 

[Robinson2187]

I could see Chevy making a bold move this offseason by trading Buff for draft picks, and using that money to re-sign Trouba to a long-term contract. It'd be a smart move from a longer term perspective (Buff is getting older and is injured more), and could help to fix the locker room too.

Well sure I agree but you need buy-in from Trouble to stay which is likely the part missing.

 

[Robinson2187]

Really! I don't mind Marchessault's comments one bit. Did you see the hit, by itself it didn't even justify a 2 minute penalty the way they call penalties in the playoffs. Cross checking a guy in the chest when he has the puck is not at all warranted for a 5 minute major. It was Pavs getting dangled up with Stastny that did all the damage. And that didn't deserve anything either. Just a terrible result from an ordinary cross-check.

I don't care how much we enjoy Vegas getting the short end of the stick, a 5 minute major at that stage of the game was just terribly gross. All Vagas players and fans have to feel so ripped off. Something had to be said & he said it

Yup. Could you imagine the salt storm in here if they called that shit on the Jets? It was a brutal call especially at that stage of the game. I would have been fine with a minor as it looked like a pretty forceful crosscheck.

 

[traffic cone]

I don't know that using Toronto as an example strengthens your argument. Go ask any leafs fan how they feel about Babs

They can feel whatever they want. The only reason they blame the coach is because it would suck for them to admit that the roster isn’t there yet - it’s still a team of the future. Winnipeg’s time is now.

Not that I’d take the opinions of Toronto fans or media seriously anyway.

 

[Trinity]

Well sure I agree but you need buy-in from Trouble to stay which is likely the part missing.

I think Trouble would sign with the Jets if Chevy gave him 8x8.

 

[Halberdier]

I think Trouble would sign with the Jets if Chevy gave him 8x8.

That's possible, if that situation with his GF is changed somehow. I think she needs him in Florida.

 

[Duke749]

They can feel whatever they want. The only reason they blame the coach is because it would suck for them to admit that the roster isn’t there yet - it’s still a team of the future. Winnipeg’s time is now.

Not that I’d take the opinions of Toronto fans or media seriously anyway.

Babcock is so overrated. We’d be saying the exact same things if he was here.

 

[Robinson2187]

I think Trouble would sign with the Jets if Chevy gave him 8x8.

Who knows. Impossible to get a read on the guy.....so aloof.

 

[Positive]

I can't imagine Tanev has any complaints, Maurice has given more ice time than he could have expected. Copp was pissed off at being yanked for the last playoff game last year and he clearly likes center more than wing, so he's a possibility. Lowry gets lots of ice time, too much to complain about and he probably likes his role. Roslovic is possible but I think he's too green to be expecting much. How can Connor complain with all his opportunities on the first line and PP1? That pretty much leaves Ehlers and Laine, if in fact it's young guys who are complaining. Do they have a case? I think the answer depends on how one feels about their performance and potential, and Maurice as a coach. Personally I think Maurice could have taught them better and used them better.

Apart from the young guys, maybe Perreault is dissatisfied with what his situation has become. Didn't Buff complain in his own inimitable way that one game when Trouba stayed on the PP? Little might have a beef about the carousel he's been on or some of his linemates, but I don't think he's prone to disruptive behaviour.

This is a very good post from you.

It asks questions and challenges the thread. Though the thread is compelling, when you look at the individuals...I'm just not sure it holds water. Need to ask if there is truly a divide and where it is, before determining cause.