Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread V

[Gecklund]

I know Cherki's hyped at that level, but he has to deliver at some point to warrant consideration at the very top. Cherki doesn't have a goal or assist all season. Wirtz has 5G+5A. Cherki is probably somewhere in the next tier after the top tier. I think the top tier is reserved for the players who are making a big impact right now like Wirtz and Bellingham. Musiala would be the one exception, as he's not playing a huge role, but it's not exactly easy to break into that starting lineup. When he's played, I've been very impressed. I've only briefly seen Elliott play, but it looks like he's having a pretty good season, albeit at a lower level.

You also have to look at the team Cherki is on. Lyon are not good and their manager is even worse.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I don’t think anyone can accurately claim who’s the best prospect out there considering most only watch a drop in a bucket from the sea of talent.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don’t think anyone can accurately claim who’s the best prospect out there considering most only watch a drop in a bucket from the sea of talent.

I agree, but I think most are talking about guys from the big leagues. I’m sure there are plenty of guys in lower leagues that are very good.

 

[Evilo]

I know Cherki's hyped at that level, but he has to deliver at some point to warrant consideration at the very top. Cherki doesn't have a goal or assist all season. Wirtz has 5G+5A. Cherki is probably somewhere in the next tier after the top tier. I think the top tier is reserved for the players who are making a big impact right now like Wirtz and Bellingham. Musiala would be the one exception, as he's not playing a huge role, but it's not exactly easy to break into that starting lineup. When he's played, I've been very impressed. I've only briefly seen Elliott play, but it looks like he's having a pretty good season, albeit at a lower level.

That would be particularly stupid.
Rating someone according to his playing time without looking at the context.
Besides I repeat that Bellingham performance in the 1/5 trashing was one for the ages.... In the negative sense.

 

[cgf]

It depends on what you're rating them on. Are we talking about realistic potential in their primes or current performances? You'll get two radically different lists based on which you use and criteria that is relevant to one discussion can be meaningless to the other.

 

[Evilo]

Using PB's logic, Mbappe is/will be twice the player Cristiano is because at the same age, Ronaldo was trying to establish himself.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

That would be particularly stupid.
Rating someone according to his playing time without looking at the context.
Besides I repeat that Bellingham performance in the 1/5 trashing was one for the ages.... In the negative sense.

A bad game where the whole team sucked and the coach got fired for it.

You could find a bad game from any player.

Anyways, I also think Wirtz has been incredible this season

 

[Evilo]

And?
He was directly responsible for 3 goals against. That's not really just a bad game.
Meanwhile it's enough (his other 15 games) for some here to claim he's a better prospect than some others because they don't play.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That would be particularly stupid.
Rating someone according to his playing time without looking at the context.
Besides I repeat that Bellingham performance in the 1/5 trashing was one for the ages.... In the negative sense.

I've stopped responding to your posts, as you may have noticed, but I can't help but respond to this ridiculous post that I stumbled upon after seeing that not everything with the discussion was adding up.

Bellingham, like nearly every other player on the team, played a bad game in a 5-1 loss. So what? And he wasn't that bad compared to some of his teammates. Players like as Guerreiro, Akanji, Can, Witsel, Reus were shambolic. Bellingham was bad, but somewhere in the middle of the team, in terms of performances for that game. To make a big point over that game makes no sense, to begin with. What was your thoughts about how he played on Tuesday? I'm sure you have no thoughts because you probably didn't watch the game. Did you even watch him play on Saturday or are you guessing that Bellingham was bad in a big loss? To answer that initial question, Bellingham played very well on Tuesday, like usual.

Second of all, I didn't say anything about Cherki's playing time. I said he's not producing, which is probably why Cherki doesn't play very much. If you are an attacking midfielder and can't score goals or assist them, you likely won't play very much in a good team. I never said that Cherki isn't a big talent or won't be very good eventually, but yes, he is absolutely not impacting games right now anywhere near what Wirtz or Bellingham are. There are one or two others in the top leagues who are impacting games more from that age group.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Speaking of the best prospect in history Pedro is playing in roughly 30 mins. After that game this should settle this crazy debate.

 

[Evilo]

I've stopped responding to your posts, as you may have noticed, but I can't help but respond to this ridiculous post that I stumbled upon after seeing that not everything with the discussion was adding up.

Bellingham, like nearly every other player on the team, played a bad game in a 5-1 loss. So what? And he wasn't that bad compared to some of his teammates. Players like as Guerreiro, Akanji, Can, Witsel, Reus were shambolic. Bellingham was bad, but somewhere in the middle of the team, in terms of performances for that game. To make a big point over that game makes no sense, to begin with. What was your thoughts about how he played on Tuesday? I'm sure you have no thoughts because you probably didn't watch the game. Did you even watch him play on Saturday or are you guessing that Bellingham was bad in a big loss? To answer that initial question, Bellingham played very well on Tuesday, like usual.

Second of all, I didn't say anything about Cherki's playing time. I said he's not producing, which is probably why Cherki doesn't play very much. If you are an attacking midfielder and can't score goals or assist them, you likely won't play very much in a good team. I never said that Cherki isn't a big talent or won't be very good eventually, but yes, he is absolutely not impacting games right now anywhere near what Wirtz or Bellingham are. There are one or two others in the top leagues who are impacting games more from that age group.

I didn't talk about Cherki, so no idea why you bring him up.

If you think Bellingham wasn't worse than any other BVB player, you simply are lying. Or maybe you didn't watch the game, which is highly possible. You often comment on players you don't watch.

2nd Suttgart goal was on half him, half on Guerreiro.
Directly responsible for the 4th Stuttgart goal. Managed to miss a simple pass and that turnover directly lead to the goal. Bellingham didn't even try to sprint back BTW.

So my mistake, it wasn't 3, it was 2 goals for him.
He was totally beaten by Stuttgart's pressing. Save for a couple of good moments in the first half, his performance is one for the ages, in the negative way.

 

[cgf]

Eggestein is up to 15 scorer points (12 goals, 3 assists) in as many games for LASK; who fell two points behind Salzburg after their 1-3 defeat to the reigning champs last week...a match in which Jojo scored LASK's lone goal to give them a 1-0 lead in the first half...

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Ah pedro his passing hasn’t been good today my biggest fear with these high flying wingers. That and IQ those are always the 2 questions one has to ask. The dribbles and pace are nice but if those other attributes don’t match up, you won’t have much of a player.

 

[Cloned]

Ah pedro his passing hasn’t been good today my biggest fear with these high flying wingers. That and IQ those are always the 2 questions one has to ask. The dribbles and pace are nice but if those other attributes don’t match up, you won’t have much of a player.

Adama Traore Syndrome.

 

[Cloned]

What’s a good comparable for Moukoko?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What’s a good comparable for Moukoko?

I can't think of anyone in the current game.

My description would be that he's of average height for a CF (around 5'10, but he just turned 16 and 6'0 could be a realistic expectation), and he's already pretty strong physically. He can hold off defenders in the Bundesliga, hold up the ball, and bring teammates into the play. He's pretty good at that, although I wouldn't call him a playmaker. He's pretty fast and I think he has a good first touch, but he's not really a dribbler with the ball. Not his game.

Where he excels are his goalscoring instincts. I think this is an area where its nearly impossible for a 16 year old to stand out to a great extent, but you can already see they are going to be great in another year or two. When he sees a chance, he explodes so quick to the spot where he thinks the ball will arrive. You see this with all the top CF's. He also has incredible composure with the ball in the box. He doesn't just try to shoot at the first chance he can. He'll take a step by a defender, let them fly by, or do a cutback to get a better angle. This is probably the best part of his game. So many players panic in front of goal. He's as composed as they come.

He also has a pretty powerful and accurate shot. He's able to beat goalies clean and place the ball where he wants from a pretty far distance for a central striker. He's mostly left footed, although he can shoot well enough with his right foot, as well. He looks okay on headers for a 16 year old. He'll battle physically for aerial balls, and I like his pressing without the ball. Fearlessly goes into challenges. I also think he shows good movement in behind the defense and understanding of how and when to make runs.

If he needs to improve anywhere I think he needs to sometimes play a little quicker. He loses the ball occasionally from thinking he can dribble a player that he would've been able to in youth football. He needs to make quicker, more simple decisions when the ball arrives to him, but this is a common issue for most players moving from youth football to the Bundesliga. The game is faster and the defenders are better. He'll improve on this with time. If this could be considered a criticism, he's not really a showboater type of player who'll dance with the ball or try extravagant flicks. You might expect this for such a hyped player, but Moukoko's hype is based more on being so effective.

 

[John Pedro]

What’s a good comparable for Moukoko?

Lukaku

 

[cgf]

Pele

Agreed.


EDIT:
I'm really struggling for a good current comp because he's a high caliber athlete (especially his quickness), but he's not an unreal speedster like Timo or Haaland. Though he's under-sized atm he's not tiny and should have perfectly fine size when he's done growing up.

He moves really well off the ball already, has nice link up ability, and shows quick feet with the ball in tight spaces/with a man on him...though he's not going to make his living by dribbling through crowds left & right, and is a poacher at heart.

After his goal he started popping up in every dangerous position for a bit, and that's what was so impressive about him at youth levels. The kid would be omnipresent in the final third & had the rocket to bury the chances that just would not stop coming to him, at a ridiculously high clip.

 

[YNWA14]

Lukaku

I can't tell if this is a joke, they don't seem alike at all.

 

[John Pedro]

I can't tell if this is a joke, they don't seem alike at all.

hahaha yeah I have no idea, never seen this guy play just messing around as Lukaku also had the "next GOAT" hype when he was 16yold

 

[Gecklund]

Agreed.


EDIT:
I'm really struggling for a good current comp because he's a high caliber athlete (especially his quickness), but he's not an unreal speedster like Timo or Haaland. Though he's under-sized atm he's not tiny and should have perfectly fine size when he's done growing up.

He moves really well off the ball already, has nice link up ability, and shows quick feet with the ball in tight spaces/with a man on him...though he's not going to make his living by dribbling through crowds left & right, and is a poacher at heart.

After his goal he started popping up in every dangerous position for a bit, and that's what was so impressive about him at youth levels. The kid would be omnipresent in the final third & had the rocket to bury the chances that just would not stop coming to him, at a ridiculously high clip.

I was thinking a smaller Haaland lite but I haven’t seen as much of him as you and PB.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

What’s a good comparable for Moukoko?

Ansu Fati. Though Ansu is playing closer to a forward than striker

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Adama Traore Syndrome.

He's an outlier, players from Argentina division 3 have better technical ability. I was thinking more Lavezzi. Adama is a running back that thinks he's a soccer player.

 

[Cloned]

Ansu Fati. Though Ansu is playing closer to a forward than striker

Fati is only 18 himself though. I think it would be fair to ask what’s a comparable for him, much less using him as a comparable for a 16 year old.

 

[Cloned]

He's an outlier, players from Argentina division 3 have better technical ability. I was thinking more Lavezzi. Adama is a running back that thinks he's a soccer player.

Still fits your description of pacey with no soccer IQ or passing ability though.