So what now?

[Bomber0104]

I have explained thoroughly (which you can read back and see), and there is information widely available to you, if you wish to understand and learn.

You don't get to decide that though.

Everyone else does.

And they're not buying it, at all, as you can see.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You don't get to decide that though. Everyone else does.

No, me explaining thoroughly is a fact. Whether or not individuals choose to read through, and whether or not they seek to actually understand and learn and improve their evaluation of the game, is their decision.

 

[Bomber0104]

No, me explaining thoroughly is a fact. Whether or not individuals choose to read through, and whether or not they seek to actually understand and learn and improve their evaluation of the game, is their decision.

Again, everyone here can make their own determinations on what's facts and what is right and wrong,

You don't get the privilege of deciding that for everyone luckily, and the trail you've left has made that choice incredibly easy.

 

[HolyCrap]

Again, everyone here can make their own determinations on what's facts and what is right and wrong,

You don't get the privilege of deciding that for everyone luckily the trail you've left has made that choice incredibly easy.

My determination is Leafs need a retool. We’re the laughing stock of the NHL. And the team deserves every bit of criticism they get.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I have explained thoroughly (which you can read back and see), and there is information widely available to you, if you wish to understand and learn.

I don't believe you have. I'm sure I'm not alone

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don't believe you have. I'm sure I'm not alone

Then that's based on your own decision to not read through, because the information is there.

 

[Bomber0104]

My determination is Leafs need a retool. We’re the laughing stock of the NHL. And the team deserves every bit of criticism they get.

We'll see Springer.

You really want Dubas to do that though?

 

[HolyCrap]

We'll see Springer.

You really want Dubas to do that though?

Nope. I don’t to be honest. I want a change from top to bottom.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Then that's based on your own decision to not read through, because the information is there.

I read your words, yet I don't believe you've explained anything. You may do though?

 

[Bomber0104]

Nope. I don’t to be honest. I want a change from top to bottom.

Well then that needs to be the priority.

Doubt it happens but one more failure and they're gone.

Apparently our latest "this will fix everything" strategy is to trade our starting goalie

 

[HolyCrap]

Well then that needs to be the priority.

Doubt it happens but one more failure and they're gone.

Apparently our latest "this will fix everything" strategy is to trade our starting goalie

I think we’re on same page Pal. It’s hard to follow along on some threads as I have a few of the trolls on ignore here. Regardless I’m like a dog pooping razor blades thinking about next season.

 

[Bomber0104]

I think we’re on same page Pal. It’s hard to follow along on some threads as I have a few of the trolls on ignore here. Regardless I’m like a dog pooping razor blades thinking about next season.

Good to have you on board Springer.

You're a true Leafs fan through and through

 

[biotk]

I would use 8 defenders and 10 forwards ... or 7 defenders and 11 forwards.

Run Matthews, Tavares, Nylander down the middle and give each line ~20 minutes per game.

Then we can use a guy like Marincin for 5 minutes a game on the PK.

Why? Anyone can PK. The Leafs' found that when they used Dermott on the PK he did very well, but they pretty much always refused to use him.

 

[biotk]

My determination is Leafs need a retool. We’re the laughing stock of the NHL. And the team deserves every bit of criticism they get.

Yup, they need a retool and, yes, this team deserves to be the laughing stock.

If anyone said back in the spring of 2017 or the spring of 2018 that come the 2019/20 season the Leafs would be out of a playoff spot for most of the season and end up missing the playoffs people would have assumed that you were nuts. There was no way that things could go that badly for this team. But they did. Horrendous contracts, entitled players, a lack of heart, no interest in standing up for each other on the ice, bad trades, an ill-conceived philosophy and much more.

MLSE has the money to do things for their players that other teams couldn't dream of. (and yet that buys no good will from this entitled bunch)
The ability to front load the hell out of contracts and give the money out through massive bonuses - along with massive amounts of money they can make by being in this market. (and yet that buys no good will from this entitled bunch).
The money to have a better scouting department than other teams (Resulting in Robertson, Sandin).

Even with all those advantages they still ended up where they are now. That's incredible.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't say "not all" at any point in what you quoted/bolded, and my comment had nothing to do with the abilities of different people.

This was your original statement, note the words "cannot" and "all":

The eye test is flawed, and cannot be used exclusively to accurately evaluate all teams and players.

So if not "all teams", then "some teams"? I don't see how this makes any sense so perhaps you could clarify what you meant to say.

Eye test + using additional tools, statistics, and information available to you >> eye test. Every time.

It never hurts to have additional information. That said, even if all you have is the eye test then if you know your stuff and you observe long enough, you'll do just fine. I don't think there was much in the way of stats when Bobby Orr was scouted yet they said he was something special and guess what, they were right.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No, me explaining thoroughly is a fact. Whether or not individuals choose to read through, and whether or not they seek to actually understand and learn and improve their evaluation of the game, is their decision.

(Mod)

Let's be honest here, you have a habit of stating your opinions. You act like you're some kind of dictator who gets to decide what is or isn't a fact and it's one of the main reasons that so many people don't want to discuss anything with you. Try a little humility for a change.

 

[Cleetus]

wow this thread is still going strong!, bet the original poster Craig Davies probably read this thread, and will never return lmao impressive!

 

[Dekes For Days]

So if not "all teams", then "some teams"?

Huh? As in people don't watch every game for every team, so there is no ability to effectively compare... There will always be a skew, often significant, no matter how good you think you are at avoiding all inherent human biases.

It never hurts to have additional information.

Then it's weird that you're fighting so much against it.

That said, even if all you have is the eye test then if you know your stuff and you observe long enough, you'll do just fine.

Funny how even the flames GM you quoted earlier, who has been in the hockey world for decades, disagrees with you:

"it helps remove some of the subjectivity you get watching live."

"As long as you’ve been in the game you try to be objective when you watch, but it’s hard.”

I don't think there was much in the way of stats when Bobby Orr was scouted yet they said he was something special and guess what, they were right.

What an odd argument. They had stats. Certainly more basic stats, but it's not like Bobby Orr was bad in basic stats... It's not like Bobby Orr being good was some revelation.

You act like you're some kind of dictator who gets to decide what is or isn't a fact

Lol. It doesn't make me a dictator just because I'm well aware when I've explained something. I'm the one doing it. Not everything is a matter of opinion.

so many people don't want to discuss anything with you.

I dunno, you seem to love it.

 

[Maple Leaf]

So why did Dubas trade our first round pick for a bag of pucks?

 

[biotk]

So why did Dubas trade our first round pick for a bag of pucks?

You are mistaken. Carolina refused to include a bag of pucks in that trade.

 

[Polaris1010]

So why did Dubas trade our first round pick for a bag of pucks?

Since he is smarter than anyone else, that is what smart people do.

 

[Gary Nylund]

In red.

Huh? As in people don't watch every game for every team, so there is no ability to effectively compare... There will always be a skew, often significant, no matter how good you think you are at avoiding all inherent human biases.

You're completely missing the point. I'm not going to take the time to give you a lesson in basic English comprehension as I suspect you're just being willfully ignorant here.

Then it's weird that you're fighting so much against it.

I'm not fighting against anything, this is another example of you making things up.

Funny how even the flames GM you quoted earlier, who has been in the hockey world for decades, disagrees with you:

You mean he disagrees with himself? You're really reaching now my friend.

Nothing in those quotes contradicts his earlier quote - stats are severely limited. The GM watches the game, then looks at the stats, then watches the game again. Why do you think he watches the game again? He watched it already, then he has all the stats, is he just wasting his time?

It's pretty obvious that there's a lot you can see that the stats don't tell you. Protest all you want but there it is.

What an odd argument. They had stats. Certainly more basic stats, but it's not like Bobby Orr was bad in basic stats... It's not like Bobby Orr being good was some revelation.

He was a lot better than you'd know by just looking at the numbers.

Lol. It doesn't make me a dictator just because I'm well aware when I've explained something. I'm the one doing it. Not everything is a matter of opinion.

The point is that not every opinion you have is a fact. You have a habit of stating opinions as if they were facts, it's not an intelligent look.

I dunno, you seem to love it.

I can only you assume you haven't even the foggiest clue as to what love is and the simple fact that so many people are fed up with you should tell you something. Note the correct use if the word "fact".

 

[Dekes For Days]

You're completely missing the point.

Then you're not explaining the point very well, because I answered the question that you asked.

I'm not fighting against anything

I don't know what you call arguing for multiple pages and multiple threads.

You mean he disagrees with himself?

No, he doesn't disagree with himself. You're just misrepresenting what he's saying. Again.

Nothing in those quotes contradicts his earlier quote

No, I already showed you the quotes that contradicted your suggestion based on your cherry picking of one quote in the article, on the previous page. This was in response to your other claim that just being in the game for a while means you can exclusively use the eye test. That is false, as the Calgary GM clearly states. Even for somebody that has been in hockey for decades, and is currently in the NHL, he knows how much the eye test can warp what actually happens and how subjective it can be, so he makes sure to spend millions on creating statistics, and then utilizes those statistics constantly, making sure to re-watch when armed with the statistics and information, to get much more accurate observations and conclusions. Because in complete contradiction of your claim, just being around the game for a while isn't enough.

He was a lot better than you'd know by just looking at the numbers.

He was quite dominant in his statistics. It was obvious that he was going to be great. Again, your argument makes no sense. Statistics existed, and reflected the quality of Bobby Orr, and Bobby Orr being good was not some revelation that only eye test people saw.

The point is that not every opinion you have is a fact

Once again, this was not something that was a matter of opinion. It was a fact that I knew because I'm the one that did it. The only one demanding that their opinion is fact here is you.

I can only you assume you haven't even the foggiest clue as to what love is

Oh, I know very well what love is. What I don't know is why you're following me around everywhere and endlessly replying to me if you "don't want to discuss anything with me". Your actions speak louder than words.

 

[Chr1988]

I think there only option at this point is make all the meatheads who got a big fat paydays accountable. run matthews/tavares/nylander to drive there own line. i think getting a #1 defender will do nothing as sandin/lili is coming up soon and dont trade away anymore draft picks. this team has lost alot of there futures for bad mistakes(marleau). this team might get lucky and have a good run on matthews last contract year but thats a long shot.

 

[Superstar]

One thing I can't get behind is the feeling the Toronto Maple Leafs are on a crusade to prove they're smarter than everyone else and are more skilled than everyone else. Winning is the only way.

This was a nice piece describing the feeling in this city towards the organization:

Leafs president Shanahan takes the blame as doomsday clock begins to tick for GM Dubas

This excerpt is shocking! Even Dubas doesn't know how Marner needs to grow as a hockey player on the ice...wtf did he pay the guy so much money then?! I don't need him to tell us how Marner is a great person and does great work in the community...that doesn't win playoff hockey games.

Someone asked what sort of player he would like Mitch Marner to “become.”

“What kind of player do we want Mitch Marner to become?” Dubas said incredulously. For a second you did not catch the sarcasm, because Dubas does not do sarcasm.

“Just what he is now. I don’t get the criticism of Mitch Marner,” Dubas said. “Everything he does wrong, people jump all over him about.”
Dubas went on in this vein for a few seconds and then rounded back.

“I don’t know where this all started with the criticizing of Mitch Marner. For me, it’s one of the most idiotic things that I see done here.”

Marner scored zero goals in the Columbus series. He is paid as much as Columbus’s lockdown defensive pairing, Seth Jones and Zach Werenski, combined. But yeah, sure, what’s to criticize?