So now that Forsberg has officially quit

plusandminus

Registered User
Mar 7, 2011
1,404
268
This is another twisted stats - trick..

Players whose career overlapped at the start dont qualify..
Players whose career overlapped at the end dont qualify..

You are comparing Foppa ONLY to players whose career started before and ended after foppas career. ( Was this time their peak or not. )

you actually drop out 80% of competition and then declare the results!

They way you reason about stats and things, I get the impression you are in need to educate yourself further on the subject. I think I can see your points, but it seems you cannot see beyond your own points. My stats showed exactly what I said, so there is nothing wrong there, and not twisted tricks. Having for example the best TOTAL +/- in BOTH regular season AND playoffs, plus also having highest +/- per game, should at least tell even you something. One definitely can draw conclusions from it. During the ten year period from 1995-2004, he arguably had the best stats of any player.

Of course, taking other time periods would bring other results. If Crosby would retire today, his stats during the time he was active would be very good compared to other players. (How good, I haven't looked up yet.)
I really dislike it when people trying to degrade players by looking to much on longevity. It's a free choice to think otherwise.

It is also true that per game player stats usually goes down if they continue to play. Gretzky is an obvious example, as he would have had a far higher points per game if he had retired earlier. Most people knows about things like these. Had Forsberg played until he was 50, his per game stats likely would have decreased.

You perhaps forget that while his points per game MIGHT have dicreased if he had full seasons instead of missing 5-20 games per season, his total stats would on the other hand have increased.

I think your attitude in this matter boils down to you just not liking Forsberg very much (as a player, I presume). It affects your way of looking at what's presented in front of you.
 

plusandminus

Registered User
Mar 7, 2011
1,404
268
After all PPGs , woulda,shoulda's and intangibles and whatever there is only one thing that REALLY matters: GOALS!

And even more so: goals in playoffs.
And even more so: goals made in SC winning team.

4 cups in a row: goals (10,17,17,17). thats why he is no: 29.

Many share the (wrong) opinion that Kurri is overrated.
5 cups : goals (14,19,15,14,10).

This is ice-hockey! There is no separate prize for:

0) "PPGs"
1) "dominating"
2) "nice passing"
3) "working hardest"
4) "back-checking like no tomorrow"
5) "having meanest look"
6) "woulda,shouldas"

Highest scoring win!!

This sounds very one-sided. Hockey is about more than scoring goals. I prefer a player with good passing ability, good back-checking, etc. that generates more goals forward than backwards. Not someone who is only out there to collect as many goals as possible, caring nothing about team play, back-checking, allowing two goals for every goal he scores forward.

But at least this post from you helped explain your viewpoint on why Forsberg is not good enough in your eyes. He should have payed less attention to back-checking, setting teammates up, produce great +/-, help his team win, etc., and focused more on simply scoring goals.
In fact, everyone should forget about everything but trying to score as many goals as possible - no matter what.
 

steveott

Registered User
Mar 13, 2011
200
1
They way you reason about stats and things, I get the impression you are in need to educate yourself further on the subject. During the ten year period from 1995-2004, he arguably had the best stats of any player.

5th in total pts, regular season
2rd in total pts, playoffs
3rd in pts per game, regular season
3rd in pts per game, playoffs
........

players playing in 95 (at the same time):
Gretzky,Lemieux,Francis,Messier,Yzerman,Oates,Sakic,Jagr etc etc..

5th in total pts?

All those guys have more than 1000 points. Howe come Foppa is 5th?
OR du you CUT DOWN stats from the players whose career overlapped at the start?
If you do that you cut down most of the competition. twisted stats.
Maybe you can educate me.

Of course, taking other time periods would bring other results.

But of course! you can take just ANY fancy time period and cut it down.. Every time you get "surprising" results. Tkatchuk might be Top scorer or John Leclair might be premier +/- man. whatever you want!

I really dislike it when people trying to degrade players by looking to much on longevity. It's a free choice to think otherwise.

You can start on HHOF selection committee and Hockey News journalists

I think your attitude in this matter boils down to you just not liking Forsberg very much (as a player, I presume). It affects your way of looking at what's presented in front of you.

I love that guy!
 

Pear Juice

Registered User
Dec 12, 2007
807
6
Gothenburg, SWE
I don't think the discussion about Lidström vs. Forsberg in Sweden can be argued through stats, accomplishments or anything else usually used to describe players careers. I don't really know why, but like it or not, Peter Forsberg is one of the most beloved sportsmen EVER in Swedish sports. He gets his share of criticism for not giving up the career earlier, but overall, the love for the man knows no limits. On a list of important Swedish sports personalities, Forsberg is to the generation born in the 80s what Ingemar Stenmark (alpine skiing) and Björn Borg (tennis) was to those born in the 60s. Both these two names are generally considered among the top 5 absolute best performers ever in their respective sports. Lidström doesn't stand a chance to those names when it comes to popularity, whereas Forsberg actually does. To the generation born in the 80s, Peter Forsberg is very likely the greatest Swedish sports personality during their youth.

Any reasonable hockey fan will tell you that Lidström has a better career and more accolades. But there's just this thing about Forsberg that can't be argued away by reasonable thinking. It's a love relationship between him and the Swedish fans, and love relationships seldom are entirely reasonable. Lidström might be considered a better player than Forsberg even in Sweden if you give it a couple of years, but he will never hold the same status when it comes to popularity.

Just my honest opinion on the case of Lidström and Forsberg.
 

TheGoldenJet

Registered User
Apr 2, 2008
9,470
4,580
Coquitlam, BC
:laugh:

Obvious troll is obvious.

2 games is good enough for a sample size for you?
What about in 2008 then, he didn't have any points in his first 2 games in that comeback either.
But he had 14 points and a +7 rating in the other 7 games he played (remainder of the season).

He would've won the scoring title that year pretty easy in that rate, playing on one foot.

Forsberg quit because he couldn't play at the level HE wanted to (even though most of the players/coaches/experts said he was among the best players on the ice in those games).

So a handful of games at the end of the regular season, when teams are resting their best players, is enough for you? What about the playoffs that year?

5 points in 7 games, just 1 goal. A far cry from his usual self. And the Olympics? 0 goals and just 1 assist in 4 games?

His career on and off the ice was on a downward spiral in a big way, to deny that is to lie to yourself.
 

Infinite Vision*

Guest
So a handful of games at the end of the regular season, when teams are resting their best players, is enough for you? What about the playoffs that year?

5 points in 7 games, just 1 goal. A far cry from his usual self. And the Olympics? 0 goals and just 1 assist in 4 games?

His career on and off the ice was on a downward spiral in a big way, to deny that is to lie to yourself.

Please tell me you see the irony in what you just posted. If not, troll on!
 

Merya

Jokerit & Finland; anti-theist
Sep 23, 2008
2,279
418
Helsinki
I'd really like to know why Forsberg would get into the HHoF while Lehtinen won't. Is triple Selke and a cup worse than Foppas's awards? Fame?
 

JackSlater

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
18,080
12,733
I'd really like to know why Forsberg would get into the HHoF while Lehtinen won't. Is triple Selke and a cup worse than Foppas's awards? Fame?

Forsberg was likely the best player in the world for a year or two, and was in the conversation for quite a few years beyond that. Lehtinen was never really close to being the best player in the world. As far as awards go, I would rate a player with an Art Ross and a Hart over someone with three Selke trophies if I didn't know anything lse about them.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,981
Brooklyn
Forsberg was likely the best player in the world for a year or two, and was in the conversation for quite a few years beyond that. Lehtinen was never really close to being the best player in the world. As far as awards go, I would rate a player with an Art Ross and a Hart over someone with three Selke trophies if I didn't know anything lse about them.

Especially when you consider that forberg had some high finishes in selke voting himself
 

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