Post-Game Talk: Slow starts, soft goals and poor 5on5 play doom the Oilers

[iCanada]

Well they aren't going to fire the coach after an 11-4 start, it's silly to even discuss, but they can do something to bring in better players. I'm sure Tippett will look like a better coach if he had some of those critical elements that I mentioned.

I think the Hawks fired Savard with a winning record before their first cup victory.

I think Kane cried in a press conference, iirc.

 

[BlackDogg]

Trade Keithkinen asap

 

[TheNumber4]

Kosko has given up quite a bit of soft goals again. Goals you shouldn’t expect to go in. The fact that Kieth and Ceci were in the ice for a lot of these goals really means nothing. Routine saves need to be made.

That being said Keith /Ceci have been having some struggles. But it’s nothing you would sound the alarm about if the routine saves were made.

 

[McTonyBrar]

those 14 goals that were on 5v5 when Ceci and Keith were on... I wonder how many were soft?


Let's take our minds off of this. Go watch Spiderman NO WAY HOME trailer

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Yeah the Keith trade is slowly starting to look worse, no doubt about it. However, I am still willing to give him more time. He started off pretty decent actually, and has looked really crappy this road trip, but so has the entire team. If he was playing on the 3rd pairing LD for 13 mins a night I think he'd look a lot better. But he is playing 20 mins/night as our 2nd pairing LD and his warts are certainly showing.

Ideally he would retire at the end of the season, but that won't happen, so we are stuck with him for this year and next. Might as well cheer for the guy and hope he can turn it around.

Yes, it was a terrible trade as far as value is concerned, but that is water under the bridge at this point.

The dream scenario is that Broberg or samorukov hit the ground running after a midseason callup and force their way into the top 4. I'm willing to eat crow on Ceci he looks so much better than I imagined even offensively (I knew he was fine defensively vs non 1st liners, but had questions about his offense and what would happen vs harder competition and so far hes been a plus in both scenarios). If we could pull out a solid 2 way 2nd pairing of Broberg Ceci or a shutdown pairing like samorukov Ceci that'd be huge for us. One less problem to address at the trade deadline (please get a goalie)

 

[Snipes45]

I'd still like to see Nuge there. I think we are exactly one top-6 winger away from allowing that to happen. Perhaps Holloway or a deadline rental.

In the meantime, I'd even be ok with trying this, at least for a couple of periods:

McLeod McDavid Pulju
Hyman Draisaitl Yama
Foegele RNH Kassian

At least McLeod can keep up to McDavid and both he and Pulju can drive the net, cause chaos. I also think RNH would be pretty good as the steadying influence and playmaker with Foegele & Kassian.

Coach has to do something. He has to stop that 3rd line bleeding. He is in love with that turd Kyle Turris. We need to be able to play our 3rd line and then barely our 4th with the junk we have. Overplay our two star forwards as usual..

I can easily see Dave just trotting out the same bottom six again next game

 

[North]

those 14 goals that were on 5v5 when Ceci and Keith were on... I wonder how many were soft?


Let's take our minds off of this. Go watch Spiderman NO WAY HOME trailer

14 of them.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

I’d rather have Keith than Koskinen

Why not neither?

 

[Aerrol]

Look, I agree that last nights 1st goal was a terrible goal. I also agree that given the body of work Koskinen has put forward on this team he is not an NHL starter. That's not in debate. We need to move on from him.

That said, he has been playing quite well. You say ~ treading water. I disagree, I think it's been a bit more than that, but again... I'm not here to defend Koskinen.

I'm simply making two points:
1) We have complained about 1st shot/early goal-itis as an excuse for at least 4-5 goalies. Scrivens, Talbot, Koskinen, even Smith. First, 2nd, 3rd shots on goal go in a lot against most teams in the league. It is not an excuse to pack it in when you get scored on early. That's a losers mentality.

2) The goalie is just like any other player. He's responsible for his own mental state of mind and to compensate for mistakes made by his teammates. That's hockey.

When a goalie blows it on a play, (as Koskinen did) he's responsible to not blow it on the next play and get his head in the game. Koskinen's mental lapse on that play (it was a mental lapse, he's clearly capable of making that save... that's why we think it was a weak goal) is just that. A mental lapse.

It's no different than a defenseman taking his eye off the puck and having it bounce his stick at the blue line leading to a breakaway against. Zero difference except that the goalie will have a chance to bail out the defenseman, and usually a goalie gets no such luxury.

Given that higher-stakes consequence, it is completely unreasonable to ALSO make the goalie responsible for his teammates' ability to recover from a goal on subsequent plays. That is on them to shake it off.

IF you think it is ok for a whole teams' worth of players to not overcome that weak goal/injury to the psyche, then it would follow that the goalie doesn't need to worry about stopping a breakaway when player X makes the same repeat mistake at the blue line. Teams that think that one guy's momentary lapse in concentration is any worse than the next guy's lapse in concentration are not TEAMS.

Now... that said, players that consistently make errors in judgement and mental mistakes are not the types of players that should be holding down primary jobs at the NHL level. Physical talent can of course overcome some of those mental errors, but ultimately the balance has to be in favor of positive performance/winning. With Koskinen it is not (though I would argue his deficit is at least as much physical as it is mental... his reflexes do him no favors).

Great points on goaltending as usual. This isn't really a rebuttal but building on what you have to say here:

While I do agree that our team needs to have the mental strength to rebound from bad goals (and they've shown this year so far that generally they do), I also think that the way the team is currently constructed, we really do need a goalie able to make those emotional saves. It's a huge reason why Smith has been such a good fit for us (contrary to my belief when we signed him, I should add) - he sometimes lets in frustrating ones, but he ALWAYS battles back and that fiery response is what our volatile team seems to thrive on. I would've loved to grab Holtby after Vancouver bought him out for the same reason tbh. He wasn't looking great, but when he's on he's a very similar type of tender.

 

[Aerrol]

Re: Keith, I have to say that he's definitely regressed into more of the player I've feared he'd be over the past couple of games, but he still is making generally good decisions with the puck. Overall though, when I watch him all I can think is: "Why the f*** did this same GM buy out Sekera and then trade for a more expensive version?". Honestly, Keith looks a lot like Sekera did to me when he last played here and that buyout continues to piss me off.

 

[SwedishFire]

Fans are tiresome. The team is the best team they have iced in many many years. Holland hasnt donr a bad job, he has aquired a lots of good players, and cleaned almost the house after Chiarellis disastroud management with money and contracts. Holland has drafted well to boot.

• The only flaw is bottom 6ers. Turris, MacLeod, Benson, Perlini just isnt 3nough to fill out. MacLeod can be if he follow the growthcurve. The D is actually stacked finally with NHLers, except the last D spot. Lagesson did not exceed, wich is for me a major dissapointment.

Puljujärvi is a special case, as qucik he gets critism or feedback on his game, he seems to take it very deep, in a very emotional way.

Tippet has done an OK job. Not the McLellan blender, that created unsecurity and doubt. But he could have tested someone other on 2nd line, until Yamamoto find his goalscoring.

What Turris even doing above 4th line, I dont know.

Were waiting for Arch, Holloway and Samurukov to comeback. To press out Turris, Perlini, snd lazy play out of the lineup.

This team still misses a solid 3C, and those costs. Should Nuge be the 3C? Why not?

Hyman McDavid Pulj??
Holloway Draisaitl Yamamoto
Foegle Nuge Kassian
Ryan MacLeod Archibald

 

[SwedishFire]

Re: Keith, I have to say that he's definitely regressed into more of the player I've feared he'd be over the past couple of games, but he still is making generally good decisions with the puck. Overall though, when I watch him all I can think is: "Why the f*** did this same GM buy out Sekera and then trade for a more expensive version?". Honestly, Keith looks a lot like Sekera did to me when he last played here and that buyout continues to piss me off.

Sekera had muliple injuries that followed him, and when he came back, it was a blender of mixed performances. He had a lot of qualities before all injuries. After the buyout, he has really regressed.

The bad with Kieth and Holland is that Holland seems to think that every 38 year old defenceman is like Larry Murphy (who was a horse).

With goalies Chiarelli really backtied his exceedors hand really good with all very expensive contracts; Sekera 5,5m, Lucic 6m, Koskinen 4,5(!) Million added with a NMC(!!), K Russell 3,9 millions was insane lot of money locked on contracts, there eCh one could mKe a case of being the worst of them all. Holland had freed up close to 10milliln in cap of bad contracts in just 2 years, and completly changed the culture and got fresh air, and hope into the team.

The Turris signing and awful AA trade is the only bad ones, byt Koskinen was chiarellis deathkiss to Oilers, not Hollands fault, after this year, Hollands hands are untied.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Duncan Keith? More like Deckan Chairth.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

Fans are tiresome. The team is the best team they have iced in many many years. Holland hasnt donr a bad job, he has aquired a lots of good players, and cleaned almost the house after Chiarellis disastroud management with money and contracts. Holland has drafted well to boot.

• The only flaw is bottom 6ers. Turris, MacLeod, Benson, Perlini just isnt 3nough to fill out. MacLeod can be if he follow the growthcurve. The D is actually stacked finally with NHLers, except the last D spot. Lagesson did not exceed, wich is for me a major dissapointment.

Puljujärvi is a special case, as qucik he gets critism or feedback on his game, he seems to take it very deep, in a very emotional way.

Tippet has done an OK job. Not the McLellan blender, that created unsecurity and doubt. But he could have tested someone other on 2nd line, until Yamamoto find his goalscoring.

What Turris even doing above 4th line, I dont know.

Were waiting for Arch, Holloway and Samurukov to comeback. To press out Turris, Perlini, snd lazy play out of the lineup.

This team still misses a solid 3C, and those costs. Should Nuge be the 3C? Why not?

Hyman McDavid Pulj??
Holloway Draisaitl Yamamoto
Foegle Nuge Kassian
Ryan MacLeod Archibald

The only flaw is bottom 6!?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Duncan Keith? More like Deckan Chairth.

That was bad...even for you

 

[KlefDown]

you can't hate on Koskinen but defend guys like Keith, Barrie, Ryan or literally anyone on the squad, you just can't.

Haven't seen a oilers player get thrown to the wolves more than Koski since Taylor Hall.
Yes, Koskinen is bad but so are many others. Blame Holland. everyone knows what to expect from koskinen and now we are bashing him because he's playing the exact way we expect him to?

 

[McTonyBrar]

Duncan Keith? More like Deckan Chairth.

Okay we got it. You hate Keith

 

[Oilhawks]

I can understand the whining about Keith (particularly since the trade itself was a sore spot), but people are actually giving Ceci a rough ride? Dude has been the most consistent defender on the team and is probably the 3rd best overall right now.

Ideally, the RD would have been this:

Bouchard
Ceci
Larsson (meh)

The two things about that are 1) Larsson wasn’t going to re-sign and 2) Bouchard being gifted the top offensive role would have been really risky, and as great as he’s been, he’s earned 3rd pairing minutes here and there so far. (Of course, if the f***ing coach played him last year like management was expecting, he might have been more ready and a sure thing)

 

[KlefDown]

Okay we got it. You hate Keith

Okay we got it. You hate Koskinen.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I can understand the whining about Keith (particularly since the trade itself was a sore spot), but people are actually giving Ceci a rough ride? Dude has been the most consistent defender on the team and is probably the 3rd best overall right now.

Ideally, the RD would have been this:

Bouchard
Ceci
Larsson (meh)

The two things about that are 1) Larsson wasn’t going to re-sign and 2) Bouchard being gifted the top offensive role would have been really risky, and as great as he’s been, he’s earned 3rd pairing minutes here and there so far. (Of course, if the f***ing coach played him last year like management was expecting, he might have been more ready and a sure thing)

Yeah with how bad Keith has been playing and the fact that Ceci hasn't also been bad shows the level of his play right now imo

 

[Oilhawks]

Yeah with how bad Keith has been playing and the fact that Ceci hasn't also been bad shows the level of his play right now imo

He’s been better defensively than I expected. The crazy assist and goal he had in Boston are something we never saw with Larsson either. I guess Larsson has him beat with physicality

 

[K1984]

Keith's problems don't primarily stem from positioning or skating which you would expect would be the problem for an older player, they come from horrid puck management.

It popped up here and there prior to the road trip, but wasn't too big of a deal. Then on the trip he had a great game in Boston before imploding in each game since. All the mistakes start with him doing something incredibly stupid with the puck.

 

[Snipes45]

Look, I agree that last nights 1st goal was a terrible goal. I also agree that given the body of work Koskinen has put forward on this team he is not an NHL starter. That's not in debate. We need to move on from him.

That said, he has been playing quite well. You say ~ treading water. I disagree, I think it's been a bit more than that, but again... I'm not here to defend Koskinen.

I'm simply making two points:
1) We have complained about 1st shot/early goal-itis as an excuse for at least 4-5 goalies. Scrivens, Talbot, Koskinen, even Smith. First, 2nd, 3rd shots on goal go in a lot against most teams in the league. It is not an excuse to pack it in when you get scored on early. That's a losers mentality.

2) The goalie is just like any other player. He's responsible for his own mental state of mind and to compensate for mistakes made by his teammates. That's hockey.

When a goalie blows it on a play, (as Koskinen did) he's responsible to not blow it on the next play and get his head in the game. Koskinen's mental lapse on that play (it was a mental lapse, he's clearly capable of making that save... that's why we think it was a weak goal) is just that. A mental lapse.

It's no different than a defenseman taking his eye off the puck and having it bounce his stick at the blue line leading to a breakaway against. Zero difference except that the goalie will have a chance to bail out the defenseman, and usually a goalie gets no such luxury.

Given that higher-stakes consequence, it is completely unreasonable to ALSO make the goalie responsible for his teammates' ability to recover from a goal on subsequent plays. That is on them to shake it off.

IF you think it is ok for a whole teams' worth of players to not overcome that weak goal/injury to the psyche, then it would follow that the goalie doesn't need to worry about stopping a breakaway when player X makes the same repeat mistake at the blue line. Teams that think that one guy's momentary lapse in concentration is any worse than the next guy's lapse in concentration are not TEAMS.

Now... that said, players that consistently make errors in judgement and mental mistakes are not the types of players that should be holding down primary jobs at the NHL level. Physical talent can of course overcome some of those mental errors, but ultimately the balance has to be in favor of positive performance/winning. With Koskinen it is not (though I would argue his deficit is at least as much physical as it is mental... his reflexes do him no favors).

Even the second goal Kosko should have saved IMO. Why does the team all stop skating and playing thinking there is an auto call (which it should have been when Ryan was hit from behind). That shot by Ehlers does not even get taken if Ceci or Keith keep playing.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Keith's problems don't primarily stem from positioning or skating which you would expect would be the problem for an older player, they come from horrid puck management.

It popped up here and there prior to the road trip, but wasn't too big of a deal. Then on the trip he had a great game in Boston before imploding in each game since. All the mistakes start with him doing something incredibly stupid with the puck.

Him and Nurse have been terrible for that all season.

 

[Marty McSurly]

He’s been better defensively than I expected. The crazy assist and goal he had in Boston are something we never saw with Larsson either. I guess Larsson has him beat with physicality

Larsson is better at breaking the cycle and Ceci seems better at everything else.

Upgraded that slot IMO. So far anyway lol.