Post-Game Talk: Slow starts, soft goals and poor 5on5 play doom the Oilers

Trafalgar Sadge Law

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
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I can understand the whining about Keith (particularly since the trade itself was a sore spot), but people are actually giving Ceci a rough ride? Dude has been the most consistent defender on the team and is probably the 3rd best overall right now.

Ideally, the RD would have been this:

Bouchard
Ceci
Larsson (meh)

The two things about that are 1) Larsson wasn’t going to re-sign and 2) Bouchard being gifted the top offensive role would have been really risky, and as great as he’s been, he’s earned 3rd pairing minutes here and there so far. (Of course, if the f***ing coach played him last year like management was expecting, he might have been more ready and a sure thing)
Ceci has been doing a lot of heavy lifting on that defensive pairing. However, the thing that has surprised me most with Ceci was that he actually has been contributing offensively, and not just that assist in the Boston game. Lots of little things like good keep ins to extend offensive zone time, sneaky good passes to extend plays etc, he's definitely improved a lot since that infamous Toronto shot into Narnia.
 
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bucks_oil

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Aug 25, 2005
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Great points on goaltending as usual. This isn't really a rebuttal but building on what you have to say here:

While I do agree that our team needs to have the mental strength to rebound from bad goals (and they've shown this year so far that generally they do), I also think that the way the team is currently constructed, we really do need a goalie able to make those emotional saves. It's a huge reason why Smith has been such a good fit for us (contrary to my belief when we signed him, I should add) - he sometimes lets in frustrating ones, but he ALWAYS battles back and that fiery response is what our volatile team seems to thrive on. I would've loved to grab Holtby after Vancouver bought him out for the same reason tbh. He wasn't looking great, but when he's on he's a very similar type of tender.

Agree with this.

I think both Smith and Koskinen have their limitations. Smith is also prone to some very weak goals, often of his own doing... but he's also more competitive than Koskinen and more vocal. He holds himself and his team to a high standard and that's what makes him a leader on this team. Smith is an alpha-type goalie who demands as much of you as he does himself, with plenty of frank and personal accountability to go around.

My sense is that Koskinen, while also competitive, is much more beta in the sense that he'll do his best to prop you up, even when you make a mistake you won't hear about it, he'll bear that cross on his own. I don't think that's particularly helpful for the Oilers given where they are AND given Koskinen's own struggles. I think there are a lot of times where Koskinen lets in a goal that is completely not his fault, entirely on the D, and nothing gets said about it. Koskinen lets them off the hook, they can blame their weak goalie and not improve. Whereas Smith will still tell you (as a D, Forward) what you could have done to make his life easier, while still accepting his own mistake on the play.

It's a fine balance, and when you lose that balance, you lose trust.
 
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Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Agree with this.

I think both Smith and Koskinen have their limitations. Smith is also prone to some very weak goals, often of his own doing... but he's also more competitive than Koskinen and more vocal. He holds himself and his team to a high standard and that's what makes him a leader on this team. Smith is an alpha-type goalie who demands as much of you as he does himself, with plenty of frank and personal accountability to go around.

My sense is that Koskinen, while also competitive, is much more beta in the sense that he'll do his best to prop you up, even when you make a mistake you won't hear about it, he'll bear that cross on his own. I don't think that's particularly helpful for the Oilers given where they are AND given Koskinen's own struggles. I think there are a lot of times where Koskinen lets in a goal that is completely not his fault, entirely on the D, and nothing gets said about it. Koskinen lets them off the hook, they can blame their weak goalie and not improve. Whereas Smith will still tell you (as a D, Forward) what you could have done to make his life easier, while still accepting his own mistake on the play.

It's a fine balance, and when you lose that balance, you lose trust.

Even with a winning record we've seen enough from Smith-Koskinen as a tandem to confirm the worst fears about both of them.

Smith is too old and his body is breaking down.

Koskinen can't stop bleeding soft goals against that deflate the team even if he can also make some big saves at other times.

This tandem is what it is, it's time to stop dreaming that it'll grow into something better. It's not good enough to take the Oilers were they want to go, and frankly it needs to change.

Even Smith ... I think I'm done with him. Last season was great, but we all knew it was kind of a small miracle to have a regular season like that at his advanced age. Pushing it for another year was always playing with fire.
 
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Missing smitty

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Oct 1, 2018
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I don't get how anyone is defending Koskinen. If people got their heads out of their Excel spreadsheets they'd see that that first goal is absolutely, inexcusable. People will dump all over a d-man for making a mistake and say it cost them a game, but when Koskinen let's in a goal that my 7 year old could stop, it's all "but he made other saves" or "they need to bounce back".

Guys are clearly gripping sticks. They're probably afraid to make a mistake, which means forcing things, which leads to mistakes.

TLDR: Bad goal once in a while, ok. Bad goal every game is a back breaker.
 
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bucks_oil

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Aug 25, 2005
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Even the second goal Kosko should have saved IMO. Why does the team all stop skating and playing thinking there is an auto call (which it should have been when Ryan was hit from behind). That shot by Ehlers does not even get taken if Ceci or Keith keep playing.

That one pissed me off too. The whole team quit on that play.

I can tell you as a goalie, you notice that shit... it's deflating for us too!... and then you have a millisecond to block that negative thought from your mind before the puck goes in, but if you don't get there in time it is too late.

When they say goaltending is a mental game, that's what they mean. You have to be so "ON" in your state of mind that no matter what bone-headed stuff happens in front of you, or not matter how crappy you are feeling about the last goal... you just can't.

Koskinen was clearly distracted on that (albeit very good) shot. Maybe he stops it if his team didn't quit on the play. Maybe he stops it if he hadn't already let in a weak one.

This is exactly my point... players need to stay in the fight, when you aren't it has consequences on your teammates and it works in both directions.
 

redgrant

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Nov 2, 2013
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Social media defending Koskinen to no ends lmao..

He’s 9-2!!!! It’s Keith’s fault for koskinen allowing a beer league wrist shot on the first shot on net!! It’s Keith’s fault that Koskinen got scored on by a slapshot on the blue line with no screen!!

Koskinen doesnt deserve any media defense and he doesnt get any. Duncan Keith hasnt been called out once by the media yet.

Hes made some 5 alarm turnovers he never would 10 years ago.

The issue are people like you who are in an either or camp. Its both of them. Both of them are a steam of hot mess.
 

McTonyBrar

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Apr 2, 2018
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Koskinen doesnt deserve any media defense and he doesnt get any. Duncan Keith hasnt been called out once by the media yet.

Hes made some 5 alarm turnovers he never would 10 years ago.

The issue are people like you who are in an either or camp. Its both of them. Both of them are a steam of hot mess.
That's because the whole defence has played like crap. Not just him. Did you ever consider that man?

What I also find funny is, the last 5 games or on this roadtrip, the defence has played like crap with Koskinen but, with Skinner, they've been okay
 

CycloneSweep

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That's because the whole defence has played like crap. Not just him. Did you ever consider that man?

What I also find funny is, the last 5 games or on this roadtrip, the defence has played like crap with Koskinen but, with Skinner, they've been okay
What are you even talking about??
In the Detroit game we got absolutely wrecked. High danger chances were 24-11 for Detroit and we got outshot 34-25 5v5.
Buffalo was a bit closer but the defense was abysmal in the first 50 minutes, the final 10 is the only time they showed up.
The Detroit game was arguably the worst our team has played this year.
 
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McTonyBrar

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What are you even talking about??
In the Detroit game we got absolutely wrecked. High danger chances were 24-11 for Detroit and we got outshot 34-25 5v5.
Buffalo was a bit closer but the defense was abysmal in the first 50 minutes, the final 10 is the only time they showed up.
The Detroit game was arguably the worst our team has played this year.
Yeah but I was going off the GAA of both goalies. The Detroit game was our worst I agree.
 

K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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Him and Nurse have been terrible for that all season.

Yep, Nurse has to stop it as well.

The dumb puck decisions and laughably inaccurate outlet passes mostly left Nurse's game last year, but unfortunately they have come back in full force. He needs to figure it out now.
 

McDNicks17

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So the massive step down from Jordan Staal to Derek Ryan doesn't make a difference? It's all Tippett's fault? Come on guys. This is blatant hating on a guy saying that he couldn't do shit with a real #3C when he has proven that he can.

I'll repeat what I've said for what seems like a million years now. The Oilers need a 3rd line center. Still waiting for one, since Peca. It's not Tippett's fault that an ancient Derek Ryan isn't up to the task.

With the results being so disastrous year after year, I don't see it being a situation where one player fixes anything.

Ryan was one of the best possession centers in the entire league last year at 61.05 xGF%. He's currently struggling to break 30% since the first four games of the season. I have a hard time believing that's just because Ryan is a year older.
 

CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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But then Skinner has the better numbers than Koskinen. There’s a reason for that no?
5 games on the road trip
Detroit Skinner 0.921 (bad play lost the game)
Bruins Koskinen 0.897
Sabres Skinner 0.870
Blues Koskinen 0.897
Jets Koskinen 0.846

Skinner has the far easier opponents and had 1 good game and one bad game. Even though in the good game he single-handedly gave up the game winning goal. Koskinen had the much harder starts.
Defence mostly played bad for the whole stretch and the goalies did relatively equal when you consider the other team
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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With the results being so disastrous year after year, I don't see it being a situation where one player fixes anything.

Ryan was one of the best possession centers in the entire league last year at 61.05 xGF%. He's currently struggling to break 30% since the first four games of the season. I have a hard time believing that's just because Ryan is a year older.

I think Ryan is better than his recent poor 5x5 play. But his Scoring Percentage based on real production has been dipping the past three years, 2018-19: .46; 2019-20: .43; and last year's 2020-21: .30. His shooting percentage in those years: 12.6; 9.8; and 5.4%. His box cars last year were 2G 11A 13Pts.

Now he's still dropping solid time on a high performing PK and a 57% face-off right shooting centreman. So there is decent utility with this player. But the production dip at 34 starts to look like decline with 1 point and -10 in 15 games.
 
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RegDunlop

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Nov 5, 2016
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5 games on the road trip
Detroit Skinner 0.921 (bad play lost the game)
Bruins Koskinen 0.897
Sabres Skinner 0.870
Blues Koskinen 0.897
Jets Koskinen 0.846

Skinner has the far easier opponents and had 1 good game and one bad game. Even though in the good game he single-handedly gave up the game winning goal. Koskinen had the much harder starts.
Defence mostly played bad for the whole stretch and the goalies did relatively equal when you consider the other team

Not to weigh too deeply into the subject - but I didn't think Skinner had any bad games. Not more you could ask for from a rookie in his second and third nhl game. (Except for "the play" of course!)
 

CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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Not to weigh too deeply into the subject - but I didn't think Skinner had any bad games. Not more you could ask for from a rookie in his second and third nhl game. (Except for "the play" of course!)
I mean he wasn’t bad wasn’t good either. He looked like an AHL goalie not quite ready for NHL time but played well enough not to completely drown.
 

redgrant

Registered User
Nov 2, 2013
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That's because the whole defence has played like crap. Not just him. Did you ever consider that man?

What I also find funny is, the last 5 games or on this roadtrip, the defence has played like crap with Koskinen but, with Skinner, they've been okay

It's funny you're upset because the media "protects" Koskinen but say one thing about Keith being awful (which he often has been Ie last game behind the net) and you rush to his defense. It's everyone has been bad. Lol

Skinner hasn't been good. He's faced weak comeption in Buffalo and Detroit and hasn't been impressive at all.
 

OfCorsiDid

54 goals? Must've been the money!
Mar 20, 2017
20,283
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What does that even mean?
Pageau can't play in this system? Danault can't play in this system? Gourde can't play in this system? Lowry can't play in this system? J. Staal can't play in this system? etc. etc.

Hell, a Martin Hanzal type who Tippett had in Arizona for years and when they made the Conference Finals with far less talent couldn't play in his system? Come on.

As we've established earlier, Tippett's Coyotes made the conference finals on the basis of what can only be described a hockey gods miracle.

Tippett's current system is an abject failure for any depth lines. We could have a line of Pageau, Danault and Gourde and they would still put up a 20% xGF every god damn night. The system doesn't f***ing work.
 
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