Sidney Crosby surpassing Alexander Ovechkin in career points watch (UPD: Ovechkin ahead by 6)

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Why? Nobody (outside of few select individuals) is saying Ovechkin is better producer. The fact that it's so close is kind of fun to watch. I would have guessed Sid passes Ovechkin years a go.

Same here. Every year it’s the same. It will come down to who declines faster. Crosby I believe was 25 points clear at the time of concussion

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Is Ovechkin a better player? I do think it's debatable. If you get stuck in the weeds on stats it clearly tilts towards Crosby, but I think as a whole the conversation beyond stats can be had.


But ultimately I don't think many Caps fans care about that conversation (I only see Pens fans flocking to these arguments) because at the end of the day while Crosby may be a "better" player he isn't even close to meaning as much to his franchise as Ovechkin has to DC.

Crosby can be the 8th-9th best player of all time or whatever you want to rank him. Ovechkin is, and likely always will be, the best player to ever play in DC and that to us means way more than his legacy NHL wide. One day there will likely be a statue of Ovechkin in this city, he means that much to this town and this organization. And yeah, maybe it's just another feather in the cap of Pens fans that they can simply put Crosby in a category of "just another first ballot HOFer we had" , but again Caps fans don't care.

To us their is infinitely more value in our guy who broke our cursed history, broke every record we had, and stayed with us through thick and thin over the conversation "is he the 9th best guy or the 8th best guy ever."


So in short, Ovechkin is #1 with a bullet for the best of all time in DC, and frankly that means more to us than where he stands in the all time list of NHLers.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Same here. Every year it’s the same. It will come down to who declines faster. Crosby I believe was 25 points clear at the time of concussion

I'm really not looking to go down the rabbit hole of this debate, but I always am confused as to why when this discussion comes up people are oddly willing to use Sid's injury to give him more credit. "Well he would have X,Y, and Z had he not gotten hurt..." Which leaves me begging the question, what do you people think causes other players to decline and why is Sid's legacy given a pass for that? Guys aren't given asterisk on their stats that say "*played season with sprained MCL" so I don't really get why Sid is given the "and imagine how much even better he'd be if he hadn't gotten hurt" treatment. Injuries are a part of legacy, is it fair? No, but if a guy bounces from the NHL after 3 great seasons because he had a career ending injury he doesn't get the "we're putting him in the HOF because imagine if he didn't get hurt" treatment, but weirdly people like to cosign that sort of thinking to Sid's legacy.


Sid is a great enough player where his stats stand on their own merit, his injury history shouldn't be used to bolster his story. It's a part of his overall legacy and yes, unfortunately, when you stack him against other players of the same caliber it is potentially a drawback to him, but that's hockey.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Not to be cliché here, but why can't we just appreciate the two of them. Why does one have to be "better".

These players have both accomplished an incredible amount in their NHL careers in their respective roles. Crosby is an all-around player who has adapted his game in many different roles, Ovechkin is an insanely talented goal-scorer who has also developed his game over the years.

Though, Pittsburgh had a lot of success in times before the Crosby era, both of these players (Ovi and Sid) dragged their franchises out of the pits of despair and eventually led them to the Promised Land.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I'm really not looking to go down the rabbit hole of this debate, but I always am confused as to why when this discussion comes up people are oddly willing to use Sid's injury to give him more credit. "Well he would have X,Y, and Z had he not gotten hurt..." Which leaves me begging the question, what do you people think causes other players to decline and why is Sid's legacy given a pass for that? Guys aren't given asterisk on their stats that say "*played season with sprained MCL" so I don't really get why Sid is given the "and imagine how much even better he'd be if he hadn't gotten hurt" treatment. Injuries are a part of legacy, is it fair? No, but if a guy bounces from the NHL after 3 great seasons because he had a career ending injury he doesn't get the "we're putting him in the HOF because imagine if he didn't get hurt" treatment, but weirdly people like to cosign that sort of thinking to Sid's legacy.


Sid is a great enough player where his stats stand on their own merit, his injury history shouldn't be used to bolster his story. It's a part of his overall legacy and yes, unfortunately, when you stack him against other players of the same caliber it is potentially a drawback to him, but that's hockey.

In certain comparisons it can be a draw back for him. If we’re talking about peak full seasons and that is often brought up in regards to Crosby. But in this scenario being down three points in 140-150 less games is not a draw back imo. Instead it amplifies the difference between Crosby and Ovechkin in offensive production. The fact they both started their careers in 05-06 makes it even more potent.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I'm really not looking to go down the rabbit hole of this debate, but I always am confused as to why when this discussion comes up people are oddly willing to use Sid's injury to give him more credit. "Well he would have X,Y, and Z had he not gotten hurt..." Which leaves me begging the question, what do you people think causes other players to decline and why is Sid's legacy given a pass for that? Guys aren't given asterisk on their stats that say "*played season with sprained MCL" so I don't really get why Sid is given the "and imagine how much even better he'd be if he hadn't gotten hurt" treatment. Injuries are a part of legacy, is it fair? No, but if a guy bounces from the NHL after 3 great seasons because he had a career ending injury he doesn't get the "we're putting him in the HOF because imagine if he didn't get hurt" treatment, but weirdly people like to cosign that sort of thinking to Sid's legacy.

Because his injury happened when he was smack dab in the middle of his prime when he was pretty much the unanimous best player in the league by a good margin. It wasn't one of those kinds of injuries where he got hurt, healed, and came back. The nature of his injuries was pretty complicated.

Kind of how Mario get's that same treatment. The nature of the injuries (in Mario's case, illness) was so unusual that it's a little more than just a broken hand or a strained MCL.

I disagree with your assessment that I italicized though... God Forbid, if McDavid had a career-ending injury today, he would likely make the Hall of Fame with just over 3 full seasons across 4 years.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Supposedly Crosby is going to start playing with Bjugstad, so you can expect Ovechkin to blow right by him.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

This took longer than I expected so props to OV.

 

[mrv52]

In certain comparisons it can be a draw back for him. If we’re talking about peak full seasons and that is often brought up in regards to Crosby. But in this scenario being down three points in 140-150 less games is not a draw back imo. Instead it amplifies the difference between Crosby and Ovechkin in offensive production. The fact they both started their careers in 05-06 makes it even more potent.

Soooo, you want to apply context to one side but ignore the context of the thread. Got it.

 

[shtorm2005]

Who knows, if Crosby would have lower peak, he might not get injured.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Who knows, if Crosby would have lower peak, he might not get injured.

Yeah cause a slap shot to the face and a blindside hit with the puck on the other side of the ice would change if Crosby was worse

 

[shtorm2005]

Yeah cause a slap shot to the face and a blindside hit with the puck on the other side of the ice would change if Crosby was worse

Slap shot - yes, it's an accident, but if not this, maybe something else would happen later because he's still a primary target to opponent team
Blind side hit - with less care of production, his awareness likely to increase.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Slap shot - yes, it's an accident, but if not this, maybe something else would happen later because he's still a primary target to opponent team
Blind side hit - with less care of production, his awareness likely to increase.

I don’t understand. So if Crosby wasent a superstar he wouldn’t get injured as much is what your saying?

 

[shtorm2005]

I don’t understand. So if Crosby wasent a superstar he wouldn’t get injured as much is what your saying?

I'm saying injuries are part of hockey. You can't simply delete them and apply point per game pace. Injuries might be consequences of your way of playing. Try to always block shots, make your opponent chasing you, lower your awareness, play highest pace of game, all this in the order to be more productive and you will get highest chances to get injured.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby’s three top 10 selke finishes beg to differ

 

[Fantomas]

The fact that there’s a thread on this and Ovechkin has played 150 more games is kind of embarrassing lol.

On the other hand, Crosby gets all those secondary assists and still can't pass Ovechkin. I'd sure hate to be you if he never does.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

On the other hand, Crosby gets all those secondary assists and still can't pass Ovechkin. I'd sure hate to be you if he never does.

Does Ovechkin have some kind of secondary assist force field in his way? Good thing Crosby has more primary points this season and a better primary ratio in his career. Next...

 

[mrv52]

Also 185 points in 160 playoff games. Top 10 all time in playoff scoring

Wrong thread.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Does Ovechkin have some kind of secondary assist force field in his way? Good thing Crosby has more primary points this season and a better primary ratio in his career. Next...

To be fair, Ovechkin doesn't get many opportunities to get secondary assists because he keeps putting the puck in the damn net. He needs to lay off a bit.

 

[TRASHCAT]

Oooh this thread backfired

 

[Caps8112]

untied, but will soon be tied again then one will go ahead and then be tied again.

Crosby fans like his PPG

Ovi fans like the Goals

Both are great.

 

[BallardEra]

Just noticed that they play each other on March 12th.

Wouldn't it be awesome if they both got point number 1,200 that night?

Is this something that Crosby and Ovechkin fans alike can agree on?

 

[illpucks]

Crosby’s three top 10 selke finishes beg to differ

All based on name recognition. If you watched the ASG this year there is a huge campaign to get him a Selke this year. He will keep moving higher in Selke voting until he wins because he is his status.

Backstrom has always been much better defensive player than Crosby but doesn't get same love from voters.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

All based on name recognition. If you watched the ASG this year there is a huge campaign to get him a Selke this year. He will keep moving higher in Selke voting until he wins because he is his status.

Backstrom has always been much better defensive player than Crosby but doesn't get same love from voters.

Backstrom better than Crosby in any aspect of hockey is laughable. There’s not a single thing in hockey he does better. Not one

 

[illpucks]

Backstrom better than Crosby in any aspect of hockey is laughable. There’s not a single thing in hockey he does better. Not one

It's laughable that you actually think Crosby deserves to even sniff the Selke, he isn't good defensively.

And Backstrom is significantly better than Crosby at defense.