Should Todd Bertuzzi been banned for life?

[deckercky]

It depends on the severity, but yeah Assault and Battery can result in a sentence up to 15-17 years.

I think the fact that that not only was it premeditated but also an incredibly purposeful punch to the back of the head and followed by driving it into the ice is pretty insane.

I get that it's in a sport and that line is blurred sometimes, but this was very much something that could and should be considered a crime regardless of the arena and space.

It literally was. Bertuzzi received criminal sanctions for the incident. Those sanctions were likely on the light side, but don't apply American standards for criminal penalties to this incident, and remember that the Crown was faced with the possibility that he would be found not guilty due to the blurred line for the incident's occurrence in the game. If you take away the injury and it turns into a brawl with a beat up but otherwise healthy Moore at the bottom of the pile, is anyone considering it a criminal matter? While the result was worse, the act of Bertuzzi's attack was not as obviously over the line as McSorley's slash to Brashear's head. A guilty plea, even with a light sentence, provided a public statement of deterrence for these types of attacks within the game.

It is worth noting that among the purposes of sentencing under the Canadian Criminal Code (https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-718.html) include deterrence, assisting in rehabilitating offenders, and promote a sense of responsibility in offenders, and acknowledgment of the harm done to victims or to the community. For all you will criticize Bertuzzi for, he took ownership of his fault in the incident and the harm caused, then changed how he behaved after the incident.

My take on the events:

Moore's hit was legal, but probably over the line of what was considered a reasonable hit in that era (hence the outrage), but his hit doesn't justify what happened to him. In hockey, the 'code' means that the repurcussions for that type of hit is a fight. Right or wrong, the Canucks felt that the Cooke fight didn't meet the standard and kept going after Moore, who refused to engage in anything further. Bertuzzi went after Moore - his intention was probably to hurt, but not injure Moore. What Bertuzzi ends up doing is despicable - throwing a punch from behind at an unsuspecting recipient is not acceptable. Bertuzzi's punch catches Moore just right and everything goes pretty much as badly as it could, short of killing Moore, from that point onward. It doesn't matter if other players caused the worst injuries by piling on - them piling on was a natural result of Bertuzzi's attack and Bertuzzi is responsible.

Bertuzzi received criminal sanction for the incident, faced a lengthy suspension (which prevents him from playing any organized hockey for over a year), and faced civil consequences (it seems he was largely indemnified from this).

Lifetime ban would have been unwarranted (the NHLPA probably would have successfully challenged the length of any such ban).

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Banned and thrown in jail.

Guys always been an asshole. f*** you Todd Bertuzzi!

 

[Kale Hulls]

Realized he was vulnerable? It's ice hockey and it's a really fast sport. You make it seem as though Moore had a couple of hours to comtemplate.

Never mind the fact that Naslund became vulnerable when he reached for the puck at the last second. And let's not forget that Naslund was then waist level to Moore who was already committed to the hit...

So what would you have had him to do? He wouldn't have had time to avoid Naslund even if he totally bailed out and tried to jump over him - and what NHL player would do that any way? Not one who wants a job in the NHL.

It seems as though this always comes down to one silly concept. A concept that deep down says that Naslund should not be hit because he was a star player. That is false.

The point I was trying to make is that if you can't or don't get the puck, get the man. I grew up playing hockey and this is taught to every kid.

 

[Tom Polakis]

McSorely was a two-handed baseball swing to Brashear’s head. That’s a far cry from a slash to the hands.

It was unfortunate that Brashear's helmet came loose and his head hit the ice, but that "baseball swing" wouldn't have put a ball past the pitcher. Nowhere near the same league as what Bertuzzi did.

And I don't care about any of the four teams that were involved in the incidents.

 

[JLo217]

It literally was. Bertuzzi received criminal sanctions for the incident. Those sanctions were likely on the light side, but don't apply American standards for criminal penalties to this incident, and remember that the Crown was faced with the possibility that he would be found not guilty due to the blurred line for the incident's occurrence in the game. If you take away the injury and it turns into a brawl with a beat up but otherwise healthy Moore at the bottom of the pile, is anyone considering it a criminal matter? While the result was worse, the act of Bertuzzi's attack was not as obviously over the line as McSorley's slash to Brashear's head. A guilty plea, even with a light sentence, provided a public statement of deterrence for these types of attacks within the game.

It is worth noting that among the purposes of sentencing under the Canadian Criminal Code (https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-718.html) include deterrence, assisting in rehabilitating offenders, and promote a sense of responsibility in offenders, and acknowledgment of the harm done to victims or to the community. For all you will criticize Bertuzzi for, he took ownership of his fault in the incident and the harm caused, then changed how he behaved after the incident.

My take on the events:

Moore's hit was legal, but probably over the line of what was considered a reasonable hit in that era (hence the outrage), but his hit doesn't justify what happened to him. In hockey, the 'code' means that the repurcussions for that type of hit is a fight. Right or wrong, the Canucks felt that the Cooke fight didn't meet the standard and kept going after Moore, who refused to engage in anything further. Bertuzzi went after Moore - his intention was probably to hurt, but not injure Moore. What Bertuzzi ends up doing is despicable - throwing a punch from behind at an unsuspecting recipient is not acceptable. Bertuzzi's punch catches Moore just right and everything goes pretty much as badly as it could, short of killing Moore, from that point onward. It doesn't matter if other players caused the worst injuries by piling on - them piling on was a natural result of Bertuzzi's attack and Bertuzzi is responsible.

Bertuzzi received criminal sanction for the incident, faced a lengthy suspension (which prevents him from playing any organized hockey for over a year), and faced civil consequences (it seems he was largely indemnified from this).

Lifetime ban would have been unwarranted (the NHLPA probably would have successfully challenged the length of any such ban).

I appreciate your research but the guy ruined another players life and ability to essentially work. Bertuzzi continued to make millions for years.

In my mind he still got off easy. Then again he has to live with himself and his decisions for the rest of his life. That’s probably like being in jail anyways.

 

[RandV]

My problem with incident is more with Bertuzzi riding Moore down with his hand on the back of his neck or helmet, ensuring he hit head first. He may not have even thought about it, but that, IMO, was worse than the sucker punch. It may have been what caused the neck injury, but if so, that is just the realization of a foreseeable danger with that fine move.

That gave him a neck injury and put him in a neck brace, but that injury healed up in a few months. It was the concussion/punch that did the long lasting damage and ended Moore's career.

 

[King Mapes]

It was a blow out, but isn't it pretty standard to put your 3rd and 4th line guys out there to finish the game? It's considered "unclassy" to put your star players out there in a blow up to "run up the score".

Considering the circumstances, no. He was targeted the whole game. Having him out there is a massive target​

 

[deckercky]

I appreciate your research but the guy ruined another players life and ability to essentially work. Bertuzzi continued to make millions for years.

In my mind he still got off easy. Then again he has to live with himself and his decisions for the rest of his life. That’s probably like being in jail anyways.

I'm not sure you can say Bertuzzi 'got off easy'.

The harm to Moore is the subject of the civil suit. The point of a civil suit is compensate the aggrieved party for their loss (obviously, it's not perfect and there are things that it does not effectively compensate). We don't know details of how that ended up being resolved, but there was a settlement that covers Moore's loss and it was good enough that Moore, with the benefit of legal advice, accepted the settlement. We don't know if Bertuzzi got off easy here.

The criminal sanctions to Bertuzzi, as mentioned, ended with a plea bargain and no criminal record. That represents a compromise between Bertuzzi and the Crown, approved by the Court, and likely factors in the risk to the Crown of being unable to obtain a conviction. Obviously Bertuzzi got off easy compared to a loss in the criminal matter, but if it went to trial, he may have won and come off without criminal sanction.

The professional sanctions to Bertuzzi (the 'ban for life' being sought in this thread) are separate to the compensation to Moore and the criminal sanctions to Bertuzzi. It is unlikely that a ban that was significantly longer would have withstood scrutiny on appeal (and a longer ban, in all likelihood, would have been successfully appealed).

While Bertuzzi is not the victim, it's obvious that his stupidity caused him significant personal and financial harm. He probably cost himself $10M+ in salary due to the incident - although he was able to get a number of contracts following the incident, he obviously had a tarnished reputation, and was a shell of the player he was before the incident.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

How about no.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

That gave him a neck injury and put him in a neck brace, but that injury healed up in a few months. It was the concussion/punch that did the long lasting damage and ended Moore's career.

I won't argue that point. That's what the civil action and related settlement attempted to correct. But the neck injury from the fall/ride was potentially fatal. That is the basis for which I would have dropped a bigger hammer than what the league did, although not nearly as big as the OP and some others want.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

That gave him a neck injury and put him in a neck brace, but that injury healed up in a few months. It was the concussion/punch that did the long lasting damage and ended Moore's career.

He fractured 3 vertebrae, damaged vertebral ligaments and stretched his brachial plexus nerves (they lead to the arms, hands, shoulders and chest). I don't know that "a neck injury" really does justice to the severity of it all, and I'd be surprised if he still doesn't have some lasting effects from it.

But, yes, the concussion has probably had more severe long term effects.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Using which rule, exactly? The rule that didn't get instituted until six years later after Savard's career was ended by Matt Cooke?

I also question how exactly it was head hunting when it was Moore's hip that made contact with Naslund's face. If Naslund stays on his skates, it's a clean hit.

Naslund didn't have possession of the puck, it was certainly interference and because of that intent to injure. I don't expect you to understand that since every post you have made in this thread has been tainted by some sort of Colorado bias.

 

[8LX7psQ]

Any chance you can show me video of this alleged "headshot"? I can only find video of Naslund falling into Moore's elbow, which was tucked near his side.

Any chance you can show me video of this alleged "pre meditated neck breaking"? I can only find video of Avalanche Players falling on to Moore's neck.

 

[CHGoalie27]

If he should have been banned for life, then so should have Byfuglien.



Don't care for punishing based on the extent of the injury rather than the action

You actually think that's the same thing? Or even remotely close? Or are you being internet sarcastic and i cant tell because its a screen...

 

[DANOZ28]

it wasn't a hockey play with a bad result IT WAS INTENT TO INJURE. the nhl should have banned him & he should have gone to jail for a long time.

 

[TrontoIrish83]

Great discussion, but why debate a lifetime ban for a retired played?

 

[IndustryLeech]

Yes, he should have been banned for life. Intent to injure AFTER a game was over, that resulted in significant actual injury. Moore already answered the bell. Bertuzzi is human garbage.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Any chance you can show me video of this alleged "pre meditated neck breaking"? I can only find video of Avalanche Players falling on to Moore's neck.

Any chance you can quote me rather than trying to build a straw man? I've never called it a "pre meditated neck breaking", and have literally said earlier in this thread that the end result of Moore breaking his neck wasn't Bertuzzi's intention.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Naslund didn't have possession of the puck, it was certainly interference and because of that intent to injure. I don't expect you to understand that since every post you have made in this thread has been tainted by some sort of Colorado bias.

And yet there was no call on the ice for interference, the league didn't call it interference or intent to injure when they reviewed it, nor did they fine/suspend/discipline Moore for it. In fact, both the NHL and Naslund himself called it a legal hit. Hmmm, who should I believe, the NHL and Naslund, or some random guy on the internet. Man, that's a tough choice.

 

[DANOZ28]

don't you think the nhl knew this was a powder keg ? the nhl only cared about their reputation & damage control. as for who you should believe, try common sense!

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

And yet there was no call on the ice for interference, the league didn't call it interference or intent to injure when they reviewed it, nor did they fine/suspend/discipline Moore for it. In fact, both the NHL and Naslund himself called it a legal hit. Hmmm, who should I believe, the NHL and Naslund, or some random guy on the internet. Man, that's a tough choice.

You're right, the NHL gets every decision right including the Todd Bertuzzi suspension. End thread.

 

[ZzZz]

You actually think that's the same thing? Or even remotely close? Or are you being internet sarcastic and i cant tell because its a screen...

Is internet sarcasm similar to regular sarcasm?

 

[CHGoalie27]

Is internet sarcasm similar to regular sarcasm?

Nope, well, yes...but sarcasm is harder to detect without body language lol

Is a softball similar to a baseball?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You're right, the NHL gets every decision right including the Todd Bertuzzi suspension. End thread.

Maybe they did get the phantom interference call wrong, but there's still no reasonable path from a missed interference call to everything that Bertuzzi and the Canucks did in response. Or should every team that feels that a call was missed get to end someone's career?

 

[DANOZ28]

ask yourself whats next should players pack heat to defend themselves?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

don't you think the nhl knew this was a powder keg ? the nhl only cared about their reputation & damage control. as for who you should believe, try common sense!

Common sense, like thinking a legal hit shouldn't result in this kind of retaliation?