Should They be Hall of Famers Someday?

[adsfan]

With Rose, it's that it's the Hall of Fame, not the hall of nice/ethical people or good sportsmanship. Moreover, he earned it before he began cheating.

For steroid users like Bonds, McGwire, etc., again...ethics. Other steroid users are probably already in the HoF and others used greeenies. The league knew and let them get away with it, and many used steroids that were allowed until MLB and the PA instituted mandates to change that. Let them in, but make note of their transgressions, if they've been confirmed.

Except for the fact that it was illegal under US laws without a prescription.

What Rose did should keep him out of the HOF during his lifetime. He knew the punishment for betting on baseball. He is probably a gambling addict. Pete met wife #1 at a horse track.

What Bonds and McGwire and company did should keep them out of the HOF forever, IMO. They broke the law and BALCO helped them cover it up.

Notable players linked to performance-enhancing drugs

Bud Selig should NEVER have been voted into the HOF. He allowed the drug problem in MLB to continue for about 10 years with no action on his part.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Ortiz has more on him than Bonds does. Ortiz has failed tests and Bonds hasn't (despite the test not saying what Ortiz took).

*Disclaimer: This doesn't mean I'm saying Bonds was clean....but neither was Hank Aaron etc...

No, he hasn't. Ortiz never failed a test, and he was tested constantly.

He was on the 2003 survey list. Which tested for everything including non banned substances like creatine and didn't specify what the positives were for

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

This is an HF baseball forum mental health issue that I've never seen anywhere else. PEDs were not even available to players during Aaron's career. Hank and Maris still hold the legit HR records. It's very well documented that Canseco was the first player to use PEDs. I've ridiculed this in the Bruins forum and no one has ever disagreed with me.

Wrong.

They were all jacked up on amphetamines. Steroids absolutely existed then too, the 70s were peak roided out Arnold and body building

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

No, he hasn't. Ortiz never failed a test, and he was tested constantly.

He was on the 2003 survey list. Which tested for everything including non banned substances like creatine and didn't specify what the positives were for

Which is why I said they didn't specify what he had.

I'm sick of guys like Ortiz getting a break from the public while a guy like Bonds doesn't. It's hypocritical bullshit. Especially since Bonds never even failed anything, including a survey test.

 

[ZMan17]

Except for the fact that it was illegal under US laws without a prescription.

What Rose did should keep him out of the HOF during his lifetime. He knew the punishment for betting on baseball. He is probably a gambling addict. Pete met wife #1 at a horse track.

What Bonds and McGwire and company did should keep them out of the HOF forever, IMO. They broke the law and BALCO helped them cover it up.

Notable players linked to performance-enhancing drugs

Bud Selig should NEVER have been voted into the HOF. He allowed the drug problem in MLB to continue for about 10 years with no action on his part.

I don't think the comparison between the sport and U.S. law is totally solid. For example, marijuana is illegal under U.S. federal law yet as of today none of the four major U.S. sports ban it.

Certainly, Selig shouldn't be in the HoF for turning a blind eye. Aside from revenue, what were his contributions to the game? I don't think HoF inductions should be based on bottomline contributions to the game. They should be based on stats or such sports-related contributions. Not revenue.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Some of the best sluggers among modern players are:

OF Barry Bonds
OF Manny Ramirez
OF Mike Trout
SS A-Rod
C Mike Piazza
3B Chipper Jones/Mike Schmidt
2B Jeff Kent
SS Troy Tulowitzki

 

[Voight]

With Rose, it's that it's the Hall of Fame, not the hall of nice/ethical people or good sportsmanship. Moreover, he earned it before he began cheating.

For steroid users like Bonds, McGwire, etc., again...ethics. Other steroid users are probably already in the HoF and others used greeenies. The league knew and let them get away with it, and many used steroids that were allowed until MLB and the PA instituted mandates to change that. Let them in, but make note of their transgressions, if they've been confirmed.

Regardless of how one feels, Bonds technically was never proven to use roids.

& if I'm not mistaken, players in the 40s and 50s also used them?

 

[Voight]

F*ck Pete Rose and f*ck Curt Schilling.

Once Bud Selig got in then every player embroiled in a steroid scandal should also get in. Knew exactly what was happening, profited from it, then feigned ignorance and moral outrage.

He should be removed for the simple reason of lobbying for Manfred to be his successor.

But in all seriousness you couldnt be more right.

Ortiz has more on him than Bonds does. Ortiz has failed tests and Bonds hasn't (despite the test not saying what Ortiz took).

*Disclaimer: This doesn't mean I'm saying Bonds was clean....but neither was Hank Aaron etc...

Could not agree more. Everybody forgets that Ortiz went from a middling player to a 40/50 home run guy as soon as he went to Boston.... I wonder why

Which is why I said they didn't specify what he had.

I'm sick of guys like Ortiz getting a break from the public while a guy like Bonds doesn't. It's hypocritical bullshit. Especially since Bonds never even failed anything, including a survey test.

Sure, because he plays for the Red Sox and was a media darling they will never remind anyone that he failed a test. Just look at the outpour when he was shot in the DR.... you'd of thought an ex-president was the one who got shot with all the media attention and support he got.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

He should be removed for the simple reason of lobbying for Manfred to be his successor.

But in all seriousness you couldnt be more right.



Could not agree more. Everybody forgets that Ortiz went from a middling player to a 40/50 home run guy as soon as he went to Boston.... I wonder why



Sure, because he plays for the Red Sox and was a media darling they will never remind anyone that he failed a test. Just look at the outpour when he was shot in the DR.... you'd of thought an ex-president was the one who got shot with all the media attention and support he got.

Because he actually got playing time? It's not rocket science.

He only got in 455 games and 1700 AB over 6 seasons in Minnesota

 

[EpochLink]

They are punishing Bonds because he hates the media, he was an asshole to them because of the way they treated his father. They are gonna let this shit ride until Bonds last year of eligibility and then elect him in.

I hope it doesn’t come down to that but with the old ass baseball writers you’ll never know. Same goes for Clemons, he was good to the media until that Congress embarrassment about his PED use..now they’ll punish him until his last year is up.

It’s stupid, it’s politics and it’s super frustrating.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

This is Bond's averages before he started juicing compared to 7 better hitters.

34.	Jeff Bagwell+ (15)	149	R
	Benny Kauff (8)	149	L
	Ralph Kiner+ (10)	149	R
	Joey Votto (14, 36)	149	L
38.	Elmer Flick+ (13)	148	L
	Harry Heilmann+ (17)	148	R
	Mike Schmidt+ (18)	148	R

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

.275

.380

.503

.883

147

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Bonds

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Good lord the lengths old people will go to bash Bonds.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Good lord the lengths old people will go to bash Bonds.

Not like he doesn’t deserve it. f*** A Rod while we’re at it.

 

[Cas]

This is Bond's averages before he started juicing compared to 7 better hitters.

34.	Jeff Bagwell+ (15)	149	R
	Benny Kauff (8)	149	L
	Ralph Kiner+ (10)	149	R
	Joey Votto (14, 36)	149	L
38.	Elmer Flick+ (13)	148	L
	Harry Heilmann+ (17)	148	R
	Mike Schmidt+ (18)	148	R

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

.275

.380

.503

.883

147

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Bonds

So five Hall of Famers, a possible future Hall of Famer, and a guy whose averages are inflated by dominating the Federal League and getting banned before he declined.

Add on great defense and baserunning (only Schmidt on the above list was better at defense) and you've got a really, really great player.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Not like he doesn’t deserve it. f*** A Rod while we’re at it.

Then so does 99% of every other great player.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Then so does 99% of every other great player.

Huh? You think Bonds takes heat because he’s a great player?

 

[Langdon Alger]

They are punishing Bonds because he hates the media, he was an asshole to them because of the way they treated his father. They are gonna let this shit ride until Bonds last year of eligibility and then elect him in.

I hope it doesn’t come down to that but with the old ass baseball writers you’ll never know. Same goes for Clemons, he was good to the media until that Congress embarrassment about his PED use..now they’ll punish him until his last year is up.

It’s stupid, it’s politics and it’s super frustrating.

Right, it had nothing to do with steroids. Nope, it was him being a dick to the media. That’s what’s keeping him out of Cooperstown. Sure thing pal.

 

[EpochLink]

Right, it had nothing to do with steroids. Nope, it was him being a dick to the media. That’s what’s keeping him out of Cooperstown. Sure thing pal.

Pudge Rodriguez, Mike Piazza and Jeff Bagwell have had steroid accusations for years and they went in no problem.

f*** out of here, Clemons and Bonds are going to get in but they are gonna take the ever lasting final year of eligibility.

Especially Pudge Rodriguez, who came up the Texas Rangers system with fellow injector Rafael Palmerio.

 

[Cas]

Pudge Rodriguez, Mike Piazza and Jeff Bagwell have had steroid accusations for years and they went in no problem.

f*** out of here, Clemons and Bonds are going to get in but they are gonna take the ever lasting final year of eligibility.

Especially Pudge Rodriguez, who came up the Texas Rangers system with fellow injector Rafael Palmerio.

Palmeiro came up in the Cubs organization and made his major league debut years before Rodriguez. Palmeiro never played a minor league game for the Rangers and was an MLB All Star the year before he was traded to Texas.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Right, it had nothing to do with steroids. Nope, it was him being a dick to the media. That’s what’s keeping him out of Cooperstown. Sure thing pal.

What about Schilling? You’re telling us that him being a hothead and dislikable person in general isn’t keeping him out?

 

[Langdon Alger]

What about Schilling? You’re telling us that him being a hothead and dislikable person in general isn’t keeping him out?

Maybe it is, who knows? My point on Bonds (Clemens too) is the main reason is steroids. Being unlikeable doesn’t help anything, but that’s not the reason Bonds isn’t in. Just my 0.02.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Maybe it is, who knows? My point on Bonds (Clemens too) is the main reason is steroids. Being unlikeable doesn’t help anything, but that’s not the reason Bonds isn’t in. Just my 0.02.

It certainly doesn’t help. If Bonds and Clemens were media darlings they would spin the steroids thing in a different direction to put them in a different light. Because they were both dicks, the BBWAA are using their voting power to keep them out. These are the same idiots who withhold votes for certain slam dunk players just because they don’t think they deserve to go in with 100% of the votes. I trust Trumps medical opinions on COVID more than their voting ethics.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Huh? You think Bonds takes heat because he’s a great player?

When it wasn't ped's it was amphetamines etc etc. There isn't a completely 'clean' era of baseball. People dwell on Bonds and Clemens because they were legends.

 

[Perennial]

When it wasn't ped's it was amphetamines etc etc. There isn't a completely 'clean' era of baseball. People dwell on Bonds and Clemens because they were legends.

People dwell on Bonds and Clemens because they continue to lie about it...

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

People dwell on Bonds and Clemens because they continue to lie about it...

Ironic as hell with all the Rose apologists in here...

And not disclosing what the mlb never definitively found is hardly lying. It's the testers/leagues job to prove what the player took. They don't have a moral obligation to freely disclose what they put in their bodies just to appease people.