Should Theo Fleury be in the HOF?

[Walkingthroughforest]

To be fair, only Iginla/McDonald/Vernon have received that honor. MacInnis doesn't even have his number retired.

That’s not technically true. The Flames decided for a few years to opt out of retiring numbers and use the Toronto system of “honouring” them and called it “Forever a Flame”. They did this for MacInnis and Nieuwendyk.

They’ve since scrapped this program and gone back to full on jersey retirements, but I’m sure those numbers will actually be retired eventually.

However, Fleury was never honoured with Forever a Flame.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

The present-day equivalent of having Joe Nieuwendyk in over Fleury is putting Marleau in before Thornton, or Toews ahead of Kane, or Marner before Matthews, or Tkachuk over Gaudreau.

Fleury was unquestionably Calgary’s deadliest threat, money player, and heart and soul from the second he established himself as a star in 1990-91. He outproduced Nieuwendyk in every season and playoffs as teammates between 1991-1995, and Niewendyk was still under 30. He was also an excellent penalty killer and one of the game’s best short-handed scorers.

The fact that Niewendyk, Ciccarelli, AND Andreychuk are in and Fleury isn’t is one of many examples why the system needs a second set of eyes.

Citing online behavior as a reason to keep ANYONE out of ANY hall of fame is nothing short of pathetic.

Here’s an idea — if you’re going to be online, why not watch old games and read old articles about how a player played and was perceived during his career instead of obsessing over what he’ll tweet. I know, I know, it’s hard work.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

The present-day equivalent of having Joe Nieuwendyk in over Fleury is putting Marleau in before Thornton, or Toews ahead of Kane, or Marner before Matthews, or Tkachuk over Gaudreau.

Fleury was unquestionably Calgary’s deadliest threat, money player, and heart and soul from the second he established himself as a star in 1990-91. He outproduced Nieuwendyk in every season and playoffs as teammates between 1991-1995, and Niewendyk was still under 30. He was also an excellent penalty killer and one of the game’s best short-handed scorers.

The fact that Niewendyk, Ciccarelli, AND Andreychuk are in and Fleury isn’t is one of many examples why the system needs a second set of eyes.

Citing online behavior as a reason to keep ANYONE out of ANY hall of fame is nothing short of pathetic.

Here’s an idea — if you’re going to be online, why not watch old games and read old articles about how a player played and was perceived during his career instead of obsessing over what he’ll tweet. I know, I know, it’s hard work.

Fleury has used his online platform for hate, misinformation, and harm. To me, that disqualifies him from being enshrined in a hall which has character as a prerequisite.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Theo Fleury comes across as a pretty ignorant person, but he was an excellent hockey player and I think he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. For a player of that size to excel to the level he did in that era is pretty impressive. Even in the less physical NHL of today it is rare for a player of that size to make the NHL, not alone be as much of an impact player that he was. I think if he had over 500 goals he would be in it. Most guys from his era have 500 goals and 1000 points as kind of the old threshold to make it. His erratic behavior off the ice with the Rangers and Chicago to end his career likely makes a bit of an impact as well. He is one of the few small players where his size never seemed to negatively affect his game at all.

 

[Voight]

That’s not technically true. The Flames decided for a few years to opt out of retiring numbers and use the Toronto system of “honouring” them and called it “Forever a Flame”. They did this for MacInnis and Nieuwendyk.

They’ve since scrapped this program and gone back to full on jersey retirements, but I’m sure those numbers will actually be retired eventually.

However, Fleury was never honoured with Forever a Flame.

Small correction, the Leafs switched back to jersey retirements when they had their 100th season, retired all numbers of honored players.

Do you know how long ago Calgary switched? Just wondering because you'd think retiring MacInnis' number would be a priority.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Small correction, the Leafs switched back to jersey retirements when they had their 100th season, retired all numbers of honored players.

Do you know how long ago Calgary switched? Just wondering because you'd think retiring MacInnis' number would be a priority.

Oh I didn't realize that.

The Flames introduced their new system in 2012 for Macinnis, and then used it again in 2014 for Nieuwendyk. I think it was roughly 2017-2018 that the program quietly got scrapped. In 2019 they had Jarome Iginla's full on retirement ceremony.

I think a lot of the issues ride on the Fleury politics, as Theo will likely go ballistic if Joe and Chopper are retired before he is. However as far as myself and the majority of Flames fans, and likely many people in the Flames org, that's never going to happen now.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

Theo Fleury is an embarrassment to hockey. No chance in hell should that guy be celebrated

 

[GoldenSeal]

Thankfully the stats we're interested in aren't counted outside a game. There have been many idiots, arrogant prudes and just outright bad folks who have played the sport. To not include someone because of their personal life is a crime. Inducting them is a cautionary tale and paints an accurate and honest picture of not only what the greats accomplish on the ice but also off of it. They're human and they're flawed and it seems the more talented they are, the more flawed and possibly broken they are.

To grow up to be a hockey player is not for the faint of heart. You lose much while learning and honing the craft. I'd like to see more effort into making that aspect better for the young involved overall, it definitely has an effect on them.

As for Theo, he belongs in the HHOF whether people like it or not. Future generations will not laud us for him as a person but will appreciate our unbiased honesty of the talents of a truly skilled hockey player.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Thankfully the stats we're interested in aren't counted outside a game. There have been many idiots, arrogant prudes and just outright bad folks who have played the sport. To not include someone because of their personal life is a crime. Inducting them is a cautionary tale and paints an accurate and honest picture of not only what the greats accomplish on the ice but also off of it. They're human and they're flawed and it seems the more talented they are, the more flawed and possibly broken they are.

To grow up to be a hockey player is not for the faint of heart. You lose much while learning and honing the craft. I'd like to see more effort into making that aspect better for the young involved overall, it definitely has an effect on them.

As for Theo, he belongs in the HHOF whether people like it or not. Future generations will not laud us for him as a person but will appreciate our unbiased honesty of the talents of a truly skilled hockey player.

There's a difference between being an asshole and being someone who used their significant platform to a) support domestic terrorism b) actively spread vaccine misinformation c) spread political misinformation that harms people.

This person can be remembered as a great hockey player but I feel his actions the past few years have disqualified him from being celebrated and given a platform like the HHOF.

 

[tfwnogf]

Definitely needs to be in the hall. Has a heck of a story, small player; a complete underdog rising to the top. Something about him just makes me want to root for him no matter what. Overcame addiction in much the same way, and seems to be doing well now. Saw him on Tucker and he is a well spoken guy with a lot of intensity and honesty behind his beliefs. I respect him and what he's done on the ice speaks for itself.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Theo Fleury is an embarrassment to hockey. No chance in hell should that guy be celebrated

Why?

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

k

Why?

take a peek at his twitter over the last 5 years. guy is Qannon level conspiracy theory nut

 

[ItWasJustified]

k

take a peek at his twitter over the last 5 years. guy is Qannon level conspiracy theory nut

So why does that make him a embarrassment to hockey? I fail to see the connection.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

So why does that make him a embarrassment to hockey? I fail to see the connection.

well if they brought him into the hockey hall of fame, that would be a pretty significant connection to hockey no?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah still no.

 

[Big Bobby]

It's highly unlikely that he gets inducted. I don't think the HHOF would want to deal with the shit storm that would come if Theo went off the rails during his acceptance speech. Maybe in a few years when things are calmed down a bit post pandemic he might get in.

 

[joestevens29]

Given all the crap Fleury went through with Graham James, one has to wonder if a lot of the bad the guy is known for stems from damage he can't overcome.

Wouldn't be the first person that ended up with addictions and mental problems due to a dramatic experience.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Shit personality. Burned bridges everywhere he went. Weirdo conspiracy theorist. No thanks.

What did any of that have to do with his Hall worthiness?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

There's not enough sympathy for Theo. I disagree with most of everything he says, but it's also important to look into his background. Both of his parents were substance abusers. His is Metis and his grandmother is Cree. He grew up in extreme poverty and was subject to racism. This was exactly the kind of people monsters like Graham James preyed upon.

The issues with Theo's career being cut short are also exaggerated. He was 35 when his NHL career ended, and he'd played over 1000 games. Sure, he probably would have played in a reduced role for a few more years, if not for his substance abuse problems. Once again, a large part of that was outside of his control due to his background.

All that being said, I loved Fleury growing up, but his on ice accomplishments are borderline at best for the Hall.

I think he was leading the league in points the year he went into the substance abuse program. Pretty sure he had more productive years ahead of him if not for his personal issues.

 

[blankall]

I think he was leading the league in points the year he went into the substance abuse program. Pretty sure he had more productive years ahead of him if not for his personal issues.

He was 4th in the league. But he also played another 2 seasons after that. There's also a large difference between 31 and 35 in professional hockey. Ages 35-38, he probably would have remained an effective player, but he was unlikely to remain the superstar he was in his early 30s.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Fleury has used his online platform for hate, misinformation, and harm. To me, that disqualifies him from being enshrined in a hall which has character as a prerequisite.

I don’t know. I mean, he’s always been considered a humanitarian, ran his own summer camps for lower-income kids during his playing days, was a strong advocate for juvenile diabetes, and was awarded Juvenile Diabetes Man of the Year in ALL of North America (not just hockey players). He also visits and speaks to sexual assault survivors, has paid for their therapy, and has a foundation to help kids who suffer from trauma. That’s just some of the things he does for charity, and it’s quite obvious he’s genuine about helping those he cares about.

Ok so he hates the left and the left hates him, and is overtly against the shot. Shouldn’t matter at this point. The issues keeping him out are probably drug related, not political beliefs.

 

[Ser Grogu]

The player - yes
The person - probably not

 

[Empoleon8771]

Theo Fleury is not in the HOF for the same reason Tom Barrasso is not in the HOF: he's a piece of shit that burned bridges with the journalists who vote for those kind of things.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Bobby Hull: "Hitler had some good ideas". Guess we need to remove him from the Hall.

Craig MacTavish murdered someone in a car driving drunk and stuck around the game of hockey.

Doug Gilmour banged a 13 year old, guess we need to remove him too.

I'm sure there's plenty others in the Hall with worse skeletons than opposing a shot on social media.

Bobby Hull is a violent and dangerous abuser. He has a pattern of beating women bloody and threatening their lives. He was finally removed as a Blackhawks ambassador this past year, even though it was way too late to make an impact. I do think there's a strong argument for removing a HHOF member who inspired his own daughter to become a lawyer specializing in domestic violence due to how often he beat her mother to a bloody pulp.

Craig MacTavish went to jail, did his time, and committed much of his life to atoning the best he could to that family.

100% Doug Gilmour should have been left out of the hall. There is significant evidence he raped a 13 year old girl who was his child's babysitter when he was 25.

I don’t know. I mean, he’s always been considered a humanitarian, ran his own summer camps for lower-income kids during his playing days, was a strong advocate for juvenile diabetes, and was awarded Juvenile Diabetes Man of the Year in ALL of North America (not just hockey players). He also visits and speaks to sexual assault survivors, has paid for their therapy, and has a foundation to help kids who suffer from trauma. That’s just some of the things he does for charity, and it’s quite obvious he’s genuine about helping those he cares about.

Ok so he hates the left and the left hates him, and is overtly against the shot. Shouldn’t matter at this point. The issues keeping him out are probably drug related, not political beliefs.

I’m not at all discounting the good he’s done. However the harm he’s spread on his platform, which isn’t about hating the left, overshadows that work. Spreading vaccine misinformation during a pandemic is harmful. Spreading racist conspiracies is harmful. Supporting domestic terrorism in Canada and the US is harmful.

I will always support Theo the survivor. But the guy who he’s shown himself to be the last 6 years is no one I want associated with my team and the HHOF.

 

[Whiston532]

Probably. But I dont feel bad for him