Should Minnesota begin a full rebuild?

[AKL]

They're fine. They have a top 3-5 prospect Kaprizov. They just need to find an identity and stick to it. That's what Fenton is trying to do.

I believe that Fenton is trying his hardest to build around Kaprizov. He's trying to target players 25 and under who will be, in theory, in their primes when Kaprizov comes over. The only thing he needs to do, besides finding the right guys, is find the center who will lead the team in a couple years. Hopefully he can do that this summer in the draft or by signing Duchene.

 

[AKL]

There are plenty of teams who had aging vets, looked like they were burning out, did a re-tool on the fly, and are now back into Cup contention territory. Washington and San Jose come to mind. Many people thought years ago they should trade off guys like Ovechkin, Backstrom, Thornton, Couture, Pavelski.

Strictly speaking, trying to do the same thing with a young core of Fiala, Donato, Kaprizov, 12oa 2019, in addition to the guys in place like Dumba, Brodin, Suter, etc, is a much better strategy given the current makeup of the team, than trying to sell off every valuable asset for picks and hoping you can hit on those picks.

 

[Machinehead]

To be fair, the Rags lucked out by winning the lottery in a strong draft. You guys were very much on your way to have the same formula of having good depth without a franchise-level forward. One more win or OT point this season you'd be picking #7/8 instead of #2.

Eh, that's not really how the lottery works. The Rangers got picked, not the #6 spot.

Yeah, there's an element of luck, but that luck never happens if the Rangers aren't a bad team.

And the Rangers are going to be dismal for at least another two years and picking up more lottery picks.

 

[OmazingGrace]

As one of the biggest Wild fans in the state of hockey, the Parise/Suter signing probably wasnt a good idea in my opinion. Suter probably, Zach not so much.

 

[AKL]

Eh, that's not really how the lottery works. The Rangers got picked, not the #6 spot.

Uh, no, not exactly.

 

[PAZ]

Eh, that's not really how the lottery works. The Rangers got picked, not the #6 spot.

Yeah, there's an element of luck, but that luck never happens if the Rangers aren't a bad team.

And the Rangers are going to be dismal for at least another two years and picking up more lottery picks.

What do you mean the Rangers got picked? Unless you're implying the lottery is rigged, whatever team was in the #6 spot would have been picking #2.

It really depends on what type of impact Kakko has next season, along with the development of your youngsters. If Kakko has a Matthews level impact, the Rags might be closer to the 9-12 range.

 

[biturbo19]

I dont get this. They are in a rebuild. They are not trading Parise and Suter because they cannot find buyers that wont send crap returns, or ask for a lot of retention most likely. This isnt EA NHL where you can trick the opposing franchises into taking your expensive contracts. Similar to Detroit, they are handcuffed by some contracts signed under previous CBA.

Exactly. People get so carried away with this notion that teams can just flip a switch and go into "full rebuild" mode at the drop of a hat. It doesn't work that way in the real world, in a league where cap space is exceptionally valuable and teams are tied to long-term contracts that are virtually untradeable. It's the exact flip side of why Vegas was able to become competitive so quickly.

It's the same sort of thing that happened with Detroit, and Vancouver, and is probably in the process of happening with Anaheim...and the list could go on. They're stuck in a sort of limbo due to contract considerations.

Rebuilding for teams in that situation is a long, ugly process that generally starts well before the "team tank" fans are willing to acknowledge it. You can't just instantly race to the bottom unless your players absolutely fall off a cliff. Which leaves teams in that awkward limbo where in a league with as much parity as we have today...you might as well give 'er a shot for an extra couple years while you wait for your contract situation to tick down the years. Draft well, develop well...and you'll have collected a handful of good young players with NHL experience learning from quality vets in a "competitive" environment to lead your next wave when you finally do really jump fully in the tank and have your books cleared of your biggest anchor contracts.

 

[Oddbob]

They have done absolutely nothing with this core, it is definitely time for a massive overhaul with that team.

 

[Oddbob]

Parise and Suter are untradeable with their contracts. They're stuck like Detroit was with Zetterberg/Datsyuk until they're off the books.

We weren't stuck with anybody and we also won a Cup and were a game away from 2 Cups, so not even close to the same. Minnesota has done nothing and have had this core for a lengthy time and done nothing in that time.

 

[Nharris31]

They have done absolutely nothing with this core, it is definitely time for a massive overhaul with that team.

You know they traded Granlund, Nino and Coyle right?

 

[JoemAvs]

IMO barring a lottery win or a steal of a pick in the mid-teens like Rantanen or Pastrnak or Barzal or Chabot, they look like a quintessential treadmill team to me. Probably stuck in the mid-teens for the next 2-3 years with a ceiling of losing in the 1st round (or getting pummled in the 2nd atleast) and a floor of picking around #10.

Afterwards they will probably fall off hard once Suter, Parise, Koivu, Staal will age out and cripple their cap. There is a decent chance that their next wave of talent (Kaprizov, #12, etc) will keep them at that level but I think that will be hard to achieve. I see 3-4 years of mediocrity followed by 4-5 years of agony (aka being forced into a real rebuild).

And given that their top guys have little value on the trade market, there really is not all that much they can do about it anyways. Unless they just want to go full on tank right now to speed up the process but I don't see that with what they have right now.

IMO Minnesota is in possibly the worst spot of all current NHL teams right now ( if you just purely look at their roster makeup and ignore other factors like ownership,etc.).
They are stuck in mediocrity for good and need to pray for an unlikely lottery win or a complete home run pick defying all the odds to bail them out..

 

[Machinehead]

What do you mean the Rangers got picked? Unless you're implying the lottery is rigged, whatever team was in the #6 spot would have been picking #2.

It really depends on what type of impact Kakko has next season, along with the development of your youngsters. If Kakko has a Matthews level impact, the Rags might be closer to the 9-12 range.

That's not how the lottery works.

Teams get selected, not slots.

If the Rangers are 7th instead of 6th, it's a completely different draw.

 

[GOilers88]

But does that really make much sense?

Im not saying tank tank tank, but youll be picking 12-17 over and over if you keep trying to be competitive. Look at Detroit, they did this and now theyre falling off hard for a few years and are getting high picks for it.

Why extend how long it takes to rebuild when you can just bite the bullet and move some of your better guys for better assets and speed it up - even if the falloff is quick and harsh?

It kinda bugs me that people think you have to sell every player on the roster to be doing a "rebuild". People understand every team, even rebuilding ones, need veteran players right? Usually those are the ones with harder to move deals.

The HF boards definition of a proper rebuild is f***in stupid, straight up. If every team HF boards thought needed to blow it up, over half the teams in the league would be icing their AHL rosters consistently.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think Minnesota should do both a rebuild and contention until they're truly a bad team, then they go and do a full rebuild.

 

[57special]

I think the Wild should change their colors to Orange and Pink, and wear Dayglo painted skates and helmets.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Koivu is probably on his way out (retirement or a one-year bridge contract and possibly a trade to finish out his career with a Cup contender). Staal is another bridge so that we can find a reliable number 1 center. Eriksson-Ek and Kunin took a pretty good step forward. We'll see next year. Ultimately though, Fenton cleared a ton of cap space from the books (14.2 million) in three trades. Not to mention, Granlund was looking at an extension between 7-9 million, if I remember correctly.

The biggest issue Minnesota has had is with their development and scouting teams. They haven't done a great job of getting value outside the 1st round. But Fenton has started changing that, and I loved the Olofsson for Bitten trade. Army was impressed with Bitten as well. I understood the rational behind the el Nino for Rask trade as well, even if it was poorly executed. In the end though, Fenton knows that he can't move four - five players (Suter, Parise, Koivu and Dubnyk...maybe Staal), but he has 18 other players he can work with.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Koivu is probably on his way out (retirement or a one-year bridge contract and possibly a trade to finish out his career with a Cup contender). Staal is another bridge so that we can find a reliable number 1 center. Eriksson-Ek and Kunin took a pretty good step forward. We'll see next year. Ultimately though, Fenton cleared a ton of cap space from the books (14.2 million) in three trades. Not to mention, Granlund was looking at an extension between 7-9 million, if I remember correctly.

The biggest issue Minnesota has had is with their development and scouting teams. They haven't done a great job of getting value outside the 1st round. But Fenton has started changing that, and I loved the Olofsson for Bitten trade. Army was impressed with Bitten as well. I understood the rational behind the el Nino for Rask trade as well, even if it was poorly executed. In the end though, Fenton knows that he can't move four - five players (Suter, Parise, Koivu and Dubnyk...maybe Staal), but he has 18 other players he can work with.

They could move Dubnyk.

 

[thestonedkoala]

They could move Dubnyk.

Maybe, but he has a NTC, his contract is fairly large and who the hell does Minnesota have in goal?

 

[OmazingGrace]

Maybe, but he has a NTC, his contract is fairly large and who the hell does Minnesota have in goal?

Stalock is a decent backup but def not a #1

 

[MessierII]

No just keep building. Fenton is shaking it up already.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

There were questions whether he'd be able to come back at all. It's wasn't just "an ankle injury". People were shocked when he was ready for the start of the season. And it clearly affected him this year. And we still don't know if it'll get better next season or if this is just the new Suter from now on.

Those questions happen with any semi-serious leg injury. But the NHL.com article from just after the injury doesn't make any indication that it could be a career ending injury for Suter. It actually specifically points out that it's not normally a career threatening injury for a hockey player, as it would be for most other athletes, because the skate boot helps protect that part of the ankle and keep everything tight.

But, with a 34 year old, you definitely have to question whether he'll return to form with any injury or change in performance level. Even without the injury, the question would still be "how much longer will he still be capable of being a 1D? If the injury changes the answer from "2-4 years", to "not anymore", he's even less likely to be traded. So, there's probably no chance for the Wild to get out from under that contract.

 

[PAZ]

That's not how the lottery works.

Teams get selected, not slots.

If the Rangers are 7th instead of 6th, it's a completely different draw.

I love how you're posting your opinion as a fact.

Here are some facts, quoted from NHL:

That there are 14 lottery balls, that each of the first three picks will be selected via four balls drawn at a time, and that there are 1,001 possible four-number combinations that can emerge, regardless of sequence. Teams are given four-number sequences, which are all randomly selected.
Not one, but two black mini suitcases of ping pong balls are here in the Lottery Room, each ball numbered and weighing exactly the same as the next.

When the winner of the first drawing is verified, the four balls drawn are released back into the machine. The same procedure follows for the second and third drawings.

Please continue to tell me how teams get selected though, not slots. The fact is that every team is given a unique four-number sequence, that are randomly selected. Whatever team was in the #6 spot would have received the same sequence. All that changes is the name.

 

[Machinehead]

I love how you're posting your opinion as a fact.

Here are some facts, quoted from NHL:





Please continue to tell me how teams get selected though, not slots. The fact is that every team is given a unique four-number sequence, that are randomly selected. Whatever team was in the #6 spot would have received the same sequence. All that changes is the name.

It says "teams are given four number sequences."

Teams.

Not picks. Teams.

The number generator came back with a sequence assigned to the New York Rangers, not with a number assigned to "team holding the 6th pick."

 

[KovalSNIPE]

That's not how the lottery works.

Teams get selected, not slots.

If the Rangers are 7th instead of 6th, it's a completely different draw.

No. Number combinations get selected, not teams. If the Rangers were designated 7th per the standings, then whoever was 6th would've gotten 2nd overall because they would've been assigned the same specific number combination that won for NYR.

If NJD didn't win their last game against FLA, we would've been in a different position in the standings and not assigned the lotto combo that won. Whoever was in the 3rd to last standing position would've been assigned that number and won (LAK if we lost in regulation.

 

[Kevs Security]

Hard to start a rebuild with that horrible Koivu contract. Smh.