Should Minnesota begin a full rebuild?

[PAZ]

It says "teams are given four number sequences."

Teams.

Not picks. Teams.

The number generator came back with a sequence assigned to the New York Rangers, not with a number assigned to "team holding the 6th pick."

[mod]

By your logic, it wouldn't matter if the Rangers finished 1st or 15th, they would have won the lottery and would have picked 2nd overall as the team was given a unique sequence, not the pick.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

It kinda bugs me that people think you have to sell every player on the roster to be doing a "rebuild". People understand every team, even rebuilding ones, need veteran players right? Usually those are the ones with harder to move deals.

The HF boards definition of a proper rebuild is ****in stupid, straight up. If every team HF boards thought needed to blow it up, over half the teams in the league would be icing their AHL rosters consistently.

so you cant sell Brodin Spurgeon Zucker and Staal? Sign a vet or two in FA?

nobody said you have to sell the entire team. Parise and Suter arent going anywhere

 

[tony d]

Minnesota's a middle of the road team IMO. I think that a few tweaks are needed but a full rebuild isn't needed.

 

[Machinehead]

[mod]

By your logic, it wouldn't matter if the Rangers finished 1st or 15th, they would have won the lottery and would have picked 2nd overall as the team was given a unique sequence, not the pick.

I'm not going to derail the thread any further but that's not what I said at all.

 

[AKL]

Hard to start a rebuild with that horrible Koivu contract. Smh.

The what now?

 

[BagHead]

Hard to start a rebuild with that horrible Koivu contract. Smh.

I mean, it's not great, but... of all the contracts to complain about, that's the one you're going to pick? It's only got one year left on it, and even if it had more Parise's and Rask's contracts are definitely worse.

This would be like complaining about how Beagle is overpaid on a team that also has Eriksson.

 

[Bazeek]

so you cant sell Brodin Spurgeon Zucker and Staal? Sign a vet or two in FA?

nobody said you have to sell the entire team. Parise and Suter arent going anywhere

That's essentially what we're in the middle of doing.

We've already sold Granlund, Coyle and Nino, are likely going to sell Zucker and may sell Spurgeon. We came within a hair's breadth of trading Staal and it wouldn't shock me to see Koivu available next trade deadline if the season doesn't go well. It wouldn't even shock me to see Brodin eventually on the block if we extend Spurgeon.

I imagine we'll be a player in free agency as well.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Imo they should have after 2015, 17 at the latest. They never really had a season where they were a strong favorite to go deep at a time when the central was loaded

 

[PAZ]

I'm not going to derail the thread any further but that's not what I said at all.

You said the number sequence is given to the team, not the pick. It's either one of the other.

All of a sudden you decide you don't want to respond because you don't care to explain yourself anymore? So please explain your logic than. You already posted three times on this topic, one more post won't derail anything.

 

[Machinehead]

You said the number sequence is given to the team, not the pick. It's either one of the other.

All of a sudden you decide you don't want to respond because you don't care to explain yourself anymore? So please explain your logic than. You already posted three times on this topic, one more post won't derail anything.

Each team gets a sequence of numbers which are randomly selected, and these are the NHL's words not mine. Yes, the team is given a unique sequence. That's literally what it says in the rule you posted. That implies that the combination given is not based on seeding.

What is based on seeding, of course, is the share a team gets out of the 1,001 possible combinations, but exactly what combinations they own are assigned randomly to teams. At no point, anywhere in the NHL lottery rules, does it say these numbers are assigned to slots.

To assume that the Rangers and their combination would have come up no matter what spot they were sitting in is a fallacy. Adding that variable makes it a completely different drawing.

That said, there's also no basis to assume that a different team sitting in 6th would have been assigned the same number.

It's random assignment, so assuming "whoever is the 6th seed gets this number" goes directly against what the NHL rules state.

 

[PAZ]

Each team gets a sequence of numbers which are randomly selected, and these are the NHL's words not mine. Yes, the team is given a unique sequence. That's literally what it says in the rule you posted. That implies that the combination given is not based on seeding.

What is based on seeding, of course, is the share a team gets out of the 1,001 possible combinations, but exactly what combinations they own are assigned randomly to teams. At no point, anywhere in the NHL lottery rules, does it say these numbers are assigned to slots.

To assume that the Rangers and their combination would have come up no matter what spot they were sitting in is a fallacy. Adding that variable makes it a completely different drawing.

That said, there's also no basis to assume that a different team sitting in 6th would have been assigned the same number.

It's random assignment, so assuming "whoever is the 6th seed gets this number" goes directly against what the NHL rules state.

Fair enough. I appreciate the actual discussion, even though I don't necessarily agree with it.

The number sequence computer-generated will always be a constant, as it doesn't matter what teams are in the lottery and the numbers are assigned afterwards. It's random assigned, but there is always going to be the same numbers generated. In a hypothetical situation where the Rangers won 1 more game, the only effect it would have is changing the position if Edmonton and the Rangers. Since the rest of the teams were randomly assigned numbers and had the same odds, they would all still have been assigned the same numbers.

Yes, there isn't a basis to assume that a different team sitting in 6th would be assigned the same number, but logically I don't see why an algorithm would change the assigned numbers to a given team. At the end of the day, the name of a team is just text, and it's assigning a random number sequence of numbers to that given text.

Anyways, if you want to continue this discussion I agree we should take it to PM at this point.

 

[flyfysher]

Minnesota's a middle of the road team IMO. I think that a few tweaks are needed but a full rebuild isn't needed.

Yeah, a few tweaks to make the POs. I don't think the Wild are constructed to go beyond the second round though. It's hard to say because picking up the right FA or having a rookie step up can make all the difference. The real problem the Wild will have are their contracts and aging vets.

 

[Kamiccolo]

If they were, Wild fans should hope they fire their GM before he makes any sort of trade and other fans should hope he is the guy in charge of selling off the assets.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Yes they should, and they should fire BB and get a new coach to lead the rebuild.....


so we can hire him........

Just hire Randy Carlyle he'll help them Tank really gooooooood.....i mean look at the Ducks after firing Carlyle & replacing with GM that never coached before & wound up with 9th overall pick instead of #2nd overall that Carlyle was leading them towards.

 

[alko]

Full rebuild is good, but only for Manager games.

 

[Voight]

suter is a much better player, and defensemen age better than forwards

While correct, he still has like half the length of his contract remaining. Nobody is going to pay him 7 million for another 6 or 7 years, MIN's best chance is to retain. However they should keep him so he can take over the C / mantle from Koivu.

 

[57special]

Hard to start a rebuild with that horrible Koivu contract. Smh.

completely ignorant, or just a troll? Hmm...

 

[57special]

Bottom line is that MN is undergoing a rebuild. Trading Coyle, Nino, Granlund, and soon, Zucker, is tearing apart large swathes of the team no matter how you slice it, for better or worse.
Koivu and Staal have small amounts of money owed them over the next two years, relative to their contributions, so they are not going to hold back a rebuild. Suter and Parise do have large chunks of cash coming their way( though no longer the king's ransom it appeared, relative to the new high end contracts being handed out), but Suter is worth it. Parise is when he is healthy, not so much when playing hurt.
The top 4 is one of the league's best, which hurts them in some ways when it comes to a rebuild. You can only bottom out so much when you have Suter, Spurgeon, Dumba, and Brodin. Last year's fall was partly attributable to Dumba missing over 60% of the year.

 

[57special]

While correct, he still has like half the length of his contract remaining. Nobody is going to pay him 7 million for another 6 or 7 years, MIN's best chance is to retain. However they should keep him so he can take over the C / mantle from Koivu.

Teams would line up to pay him that. Not all, but some. 7M used to be an outrageous amount. Now Evander Kane is making that. Lucic is making just a bit less. By the end of Suters contract, middle pairing Dmen will be making 7M. Suter has outplayed his contract, and will likely still earn it going forward. He still played the most minutes of any Dman last year, and scored a personal best in points. All this after spending the previous summer on crutches due to ankle surgery. Now that he has a healthy and long summer off to heal and condition himself, he will be back to playing the shutdown D he is known for.

 

[Binister]

Should've done a full rebuild while ago. /thread

 

[MikeK]

I don't see how they can do a rebuild with contracts like Parise and Suter on the hook. I don't see any team taking either of those deals.

 

[DANOZ28]

we'd have a much better team if our last gm didn't go for it several times trading away our draft picks like Halloween candy. i really think its too late for a full rebuild. i would like to see us tank this year then slowly start tweaking & adding pieces after kaprizov gets here. currently i don't have any confidence the new gm fenton is the right person for the job. i really like our D core and hope we keep them together. im not a dubnyk fan and i think we should try and upgrade goaltending. we obviously need some goal scoring. a full rebuild could take 5 years and i doubt our fan base / sth would support that.

 

[Al Lagoon]

The popular opinion is that Suter might play out his contract, and Parise won't. I'm not sure ... healthy ZP looked pretty good last season. He won't be worth 7.5 per in the final years, but could still provide some value as opposed to being a total loss.

 

[thadd]

When you look at all the pieces you've got, on paper you should be able to get more for your players than what the Rangers got.
The big question is --- Do you have faith in your team's ability to scout undrafted players, scout young professional and drafted players and make trades that push the needle in the right direction?

If the answer to one of those is no, a rebuild might be rather painful and you might just be better off trying to tread water.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Full rebuild on their roster, jersey's, color scheme, name, logo, etc.

Minnesota should be one of the most attractive hockey markets in the USA and they aren't even close.