Management Should Guerin be fired?
- Thread starter thestonedkoala
- Start date
- Dec 10, 2012
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I don't know enough about the investigations to know whether or not he should be fired as a result of them.
Should he be fired because he isn't a good GM? Yes.
Should he be fired because he isn't a good GM? Yes.
Agree. I want even aware of the investigation(s) existing a couple days ago. There's been zero real info into the details.
I do know his moves are handcuffing the team to old role players though, which is a terrible plan.
Old country club turned into new country club.
BagHead
Registered User
Ignoring the investigations as I don't know who is at fault for what, I think he's been a mediocre GM. He's done some truly inspired things, like last year's trade deadline (sounds like credit may actually belong to the guy we just fired), but he's also made some really questionable decisions, like re-signing a bunch of 30+ year olds to multi-year contracts.
I think the correct answer here is maybe. "Yes" if you have someone better to hire, "no" if you don't.
I think the correct answer here is maybe. "Yes" if you have someone better to hire, "no" if you don't.
- Dec 10, 2012
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I also don't know how much a new GM will matter. I think we all know the directive is coming from Leipold to make the playoffs every year. Even if we're not serious contenders. Even if it's at the expense of extra future assets or higher quality future assets. We'll probably just get another guy who makes similar moves to keep the team competitive when the team itself is begging for a tank year. But maybe the next guy won't be as interested in keeping the picks and prospects we already have, like Guerin has.
Circulartheory
Registered User
I know creating these type of threads before anyone else does seem enticing but I/we have no info on what type of abuse we are talking about. This thread isn't going to go anywhere the other main BG thread isn't already discussing.
Verbal abuse. Friedman and Russo has some pretty good information..
I think it's a discussion about if firing Guerin is in the cards and what GMs are out there.
Circulartheory
Registered User
I trust Friedman and Russo but all they have said was investigation was done on verbal abuse and BG offered no comments.
I need more info like when Fenton was fired and I trust Russo in providing that info. Racial slurs? Threatening physical harm comments? I don't need to know exactly what was said but I do need to do know the extent of harm we are talking about.
In cases of *** abuse, it tends to be many accusations from many people that help paint the story. Here we have one employee to start, so we need more info on what is happening.
Firing BG is in the cards if abuse took place - no place for that in the workplace - but at the moment, its all a wait and see stance. IMO, this might be an interesting thread but you aren't going to get any reasonable answers today.
BagHead
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The one thing Friedman commented on that we didn't already learn from Russo (which isn't much) is that he's heard some of the players may be unhappy with the situation involving Guerin and Heydt. Which is still pretty vague. But if the players (and staff) start to turn on Guerin, Leipold may have to take action, even if what Guerin said or did wasn't fireable to begin with.
And as others have said already, where there's smoke, there's usually fire. Is Guerin a ticking time bomb at this point?
And as others have said already, where there's smoke, there's usually fire. Is Guerin a ticking time bomb at this point?
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I don't think we're as handcuffed (after this summer) as others might, even with the 3 extensions.
We could still potentially have room in the summer of 2025 to add two ~$7M players. 1 top 6 forward to add to Kaprizov, Boldy, Rossi, Yurov and Zuccarello. And 1 top 4 defenseman to add to Brodin, Faber and Spurgeon.
Kaprizov - Rossi (bridge) - Boldy
~$7M forward - Yurov (ELC, 2nd year) - Zuccarello
Foligno - Eriksson Ek - Hartman
~$1.5M player - Gaudreau - ~$1.5M player
~$1M player
Brodin - Faber (bridge)
~$7M defenseman - Spurgeon
~$2.5M player - ~$1.5M player
~$1M player
Gustavsson
Wallstedt (bridge)
But, if he's toxic and a dick, then whatever.
We could still potentially have room in the summer of 2025 to add two ~$7M players. 1 top 6 forward to add to Kaprizov, Boldy, Rossi, Yurov and Zuccarello. And 1 top 4 defenseman to add to Brodin, Faber and Spurgeon.
Kaprizov - Rossi (bridge) - Boldy
~$7M forward - Yurov (ELC, 2nd year) - Zuccarello
Foligno - Eriksson Ek - Hartman
~$1.5M player - Gaudreau - ~$1.5M player
~$1M player
Brodin - Faber (bridge)
~$7M defenseman - Spurgeon
~$2.5M player - ~$1.5M player
~$1M player
Gustavsson
Wallstedt (bridge)
But, if he's toxic and a dick, then whatever.
Circulartheory
Registered User
Again, wished this stayed in the other thread but boat has sailed I guess. I somewhat agree.
I thought BG did an excellent job rebuilding our prospect pool and if the Suter/Parise had to be done, he did a great job positioning the team to make full use of the cap space once the dead cap leaves and our top prospects come on ELCs. That was until this offseason and those 3 extensions basically cut that potential in half. Fireable offense? No, but it definitely put both feet on the brakes on my optimism.
I think you are right, there still about $9mil to play with and add a 2nd line winger with Fluery gone and the cap ceiling rising and ELCs playing top roles. But I am starting to question if BG can use that $9 mil efficiently. But I can only judge once I see what he does with that money.
DANOZ28
Registered User
DANOZ28
Registered User
reminder this all started going downhill with fiala , something happened where fiala said no way am i staying here. had to be an issue with billy. add billy getting upset with russo for asking. otherwise why wouldn't fiala get over it with a huge payday?
- Dec 10, 2012
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Well they're not serious about winning a Cup, they're serious about making the playoffs. But what you're talking about is competence. It's incompetence that has us hitched to those guys, not being not serious about winning.
Guerin took the issue with Talbot a little too personal. I think he will be let go at the end of the year.
If I wanted to be part of a dictatorship I’d move to North Korea. Can his ass. Can’t be a leader of an organization if you can’t get along with people
I really want Eric Tulsky for the next guy.
But does anyone else think O'Hearn was the distraction in all of this?
Also very little of this roster is Guerin's.
Boldy, Duhaime, Dewar, Zuccarello, Hartman came in Fenton's time or were developed. Ek, Foligno, Spurgeon, Brodin under Fletcher.
Johansson, Rossi, Faber, Merrill, Goligoski and Middleton under Guerin. Kaprizov maybe as well but Fenton started the ball rolling. Gus and Fleury as well.
But does anyone else think O'Hearn was the distraction in all of this?
Also very little of this roster is Guerin's.
Boldy, Duhaime, Dewar, Zuccarello, Hartman came in Fenton's time or were developed. Ek, Foligno, Spurgeon, Brodin under Fletcher.
Johansson, Rossi, Faber, Merrill, Goligoski and Middleton under Guerin. Kaprizov maybe as well but Fenton started the ball rolling. Gus and Fleury as well.
Gus, Wallstedt, Faber, Middleton have all been solid additions. So we know at least someone in the org can spot undervalued hockey talent. My issue with Guerin is the cult of personality thing and the most recent extensions. I’m not sure that he will ever be able to put ego aside if necessary and a GM has to be able to
I’ll give Guerin this much: it has never been boring with him at the helm.
I’ll give Guerin this much: it has never been boring with him at the helm.
Guerin has been a mixed bag. He has made some good moves(hiring Brackett, keeping draft choices, moving up to get Wallstedt,etc), and some not so good ones(premature Foligno, Hartman, and Zucc signings. Poor signings such as Goligoski. Handing out NMC's to role players).
He also appears to be impulsive and have a bullying streak in him.
The main thing, however is that i don't know that I trust him when he says, "I have a plan". Or, at least, I don't trust that he has a good plan.
His teams also don't win any more than previous regimes have. They have never won a playoff series, and by his comments, he is hinting that he doesn't expect they will until 25-26 at the earliest. What's that, 6 years of futility? What kind of plan is that?
I don't care if my GM has a ruthless streak in him. I don't expect a saint. I just want him to be smarter than other gm's, and WIN. I suspect that Guerin is not smarter than other gm's... we already know that he is not winning, or at least not winning when it counts. Hell, the much maligned Fletcher won a couple of playoff series.
He also appears to be impulsive and have a bullying streak in him.
The main thing, however is that i don't know that I trust him when he says, "I have a plan". Or, at least, I don't trust that he has a good plan.
His teams also don't win any more than previous regimes have. They have never won a playoff series, and by his comments, he is hinting that he doesn't expect they will until 25-26 at the earliest. What's that, 6 years of futility? What kind of plan is that?
I don't care if my GM has a ruthless streak in him. I don't expect a saint. I just want him to be smarter than other gm's, and WIN. I suspect that Guerin is not smarter than other gm's... we already know that he is not winning, or at least not winning when it counts. Hell, the much maligned Fletcher won a couple of playoff series.
Saga of the Elk
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Said it before, but Guerin's a decent assessor of talent and would be a good Director of Player Personnel or something like that.
Why teams feel the need to hire men with no management experience to be "general managers" is a puzzle.
I know he has a team around him, but without a competent "manager" that doesn't really matter.
Ironically, Chuck Fletcher did seem to be a decent "general manager" but he was a subpar guy when it came to talent assessment.
Paul Fenton was also good on talent assessment, but poor on management skills.
The problem, I suppose, is all these ex-jocks have too much charisma, too firm of handshakes, for a guy like Leipold to turn down.
In five years, Ryan Suter will be the GM and the Wild will still have nothing to show for their existence.
Why teams feel the need to hire men with no management experience to be "general managers" is a puzzle.
I know he has a team around him, but without a competent "manager" that doesn't really matter.
Ironically, Chuck Fletcher did seem to be a decent "general manager" but he was a subpar guy when it came to talent assessment.
Paul Fenton was also good on talent assessment, but poor on management skills.
The problem, I suppose, is all these ex-jocks have too much charisma, too firm of handshakes, for a guy like Leipold to turn down.
In five years, Ryan Suter will be the GM and the Wild will still have nothing to show for their existence.
His big trades have been okay but also really inconsistent. Like the Wild are lucky that the Fiala and Talbot trade went as well as they did but they feel like an upgraded Fenton trade.
