Should Doug Armstrong get fired if he can't get re-sign Pietrangelo?

[MissouriMook]

If Pietrangelo tried that then I would hope that Stillman shuts it down immediately. Encourage him to contact Armstrong directly, not through his agent, and have a discussion. Otherwise, Stillman should simply be saying this is what we pay Doug Armstrong for.

The extend of the involvement of ownership should be telling Armstrong what the organisation is comfortable with in terms of signing bonuses, and (if it's okay) then they should be offered if they need to be offered.

Ownership shouldn't undermine the GM and the GM shouldn't undermine the coach. Start going down that road and it rarely ends well.

I get what you're saying, but sometimes the boss has to save his direct reports from making a catastrophic error that can negatively impact an entire organization. The relationship between the GM and the agent has been contentious for some time and there are reliable accounts out there that the relationship between the GM and the player is not great. Here is where I disagree with letting this continue on the normal path:

1. There is (or should be) less concern about damaging the reporting hierarchy simply because even if a contract extension is worked out, there is no need for Petro and Army to have to be able to work together again unless it involved waiving a NTC or a legacy contract 8 years down the road.

2. If I am Stillman and I am responsible for the entire organization, I want to make sure that how I evaluate the people who work for me isn't being clouded by what they are telling me. In the normal business world, this would be considered a "skip level" meeting to make sure that blind spots aren't being created by the chain of command. I had to let someone go earlier this year because I found out they had been lying to me for months - and I found this out by talking to his direct reports and hearing things for myself. In the context of this situation, I think Stillman owes it to himself and his partners to hear Petro's side of the story straight from Petro.

Again, I'm not suggesting that Stillman push DA out of the way and finish the negotiations for Army. Healthy organizations don't do those sorts of things. But Stillman has to be confident that he is getting the whole story from Army as to what the player is asking for and that Army understands what is expected of him (what he can and can't offer in the form of signing bonus and NMCs in this rare exception) in negotiations with his most valuable asset before that asset is lost for good and for nothing. Maybe all of that has already happened and the line being drawn in the sand by Army is with the full knowledge and support of Stillman. If so, that's fine - it's his team. But an owner should do his due diligence to make sure that all parties understand his intentions and his limits before something this important blows up in somebody's face.

 

[GoldenSeal]

For player who has meant so much to franchise a gm would always keep owner in loop and solicit feedback. DA lays out strategy here but would be naive to think that Stillman ain't on board with his approach.

Unless Stillman totally trusts Army and isnt involved at all. This is a situation that If Stillman hasn’t been involved in, should at least be talking to people right now outside of Army to get a better perspective of the situation.

Stillman should be interested in results and losing Pie is a negative result that can harm him and his groups investment for years to come.

 

[BlueKnight]

I appreciate Stillman not getting involed in hockey decisions like some other owners. But right here is where he needs to step in and get this thing resolved before it blows up in his face. The future of the Blues are in his hands.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I agree with Mook. A good org has skip level meetings from time to time. These aren't generally meant to be contentious, they simply promote accountability. I in no way think Stillman should push Armstrong out of the way, or go into this type of meeting with any sort of mind to "negotiate" with AP, but he should absolutely meet with him and make sure he's got the full picture from both sides.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Maybe Pietrangelo just doesn't want to be in STL anymore.

 

[BlueDream]

I think a lot of you need to take a step back and realize that you have no idea what’s going on in these negotiations. Calling for Stillman to get involved is a huge overreaction. This entire premise that the deal isn’t done just because Armstrong and the agent aren’t getting along is a gigantic assumption to make. You don’t have the facts and all these threads are getting kind of embarrassing to read.

 

[Ranksu]

I think a lot of you need to take a step back and realize that you have no idea what’s going on in these negotiations. Calling for Stillman to get involved is a huge overreaction. This entire premise that the deal isn’t done just because Armstrong and the agent aren’t getting along is a gigantic assumption to make. You don’t have the facts and all these threads are getting kind of embarrassing to read.

You need to step a side and don't read.

We're living what we read and every rumour or article is what we know about this. Ofc we ca go blind folded, but I trully want to know where we are at even if that is totally wrong info. Bleeding blue is fun and we all love it. Fun part actually feels fun when we won after all obstacles.

 

[Celtic Note]

Everything that is “coming out” right now is just a slew of opinion pieces. Unless there are quotes from the actual parties involved, it’s all just click bait to me. Just like so much of our “news” these days, almost everything is devoid of actual journalistic integrity. I might as well put my ear up to a conch shell for information. The shell is much less likely to tell me a biased story and is therefore a better source.

I really started to fully comprehend this year how much emotions control people. Logic be damned.

*I will let others decide where the sarcasm starts and stops in there. It might make for interesting speculation/discussion.

 

[Note Worthy]

Maybe Pietrangelo just doesn't want to be in STL anymore.

If that were true this would have been over a long time ago. He would have informed the team he has no interest in re-signing and that would have been the end of it.

 

[stl76]

You all realize that Tom Stillman is just 1 of a 16 person ownership group, right? Stillman is the public face of the group, but I very much doubt big club decisions are his, and only his, to make.

 

[Note Worthy]

You all realize that Tom Stillman is just 1 of a 16 person ownership group, right? Stillman is the public face of the group, but I very much doubt big club decisions are his, and only his, to make.

I thought he owned the majority in the group? I could totally be wrong but I thought that's why he was the public face and the one at the awards and on the ice when we won the Cup, etc.

 

[BlueKnight]

I'm just going to be honest here. I've been vocal about keeping Petro i make no qualms about it. I've seen some insider reports that are blaming Army for it getting to this point and they say it's clearly Armys ego that is problem here and If it wasn't for Armys ego Petro would be already signed. They say Petro is a player you exceptions for if Army isn't willing to bend his rules to sign the captain, one suggested it should be a fireable offence.

Army and Petro have common ground on term 8x8. We have to do things that are uncomfortable with and this one of those times where Army should've told himself I'm going to swallow my pride and get this done for Petro as he is our captain and an important player to the team and really wants to stay here.

Army needs to suck it up, It's the price you pay to keep the Captain and championship window open or do you want to be a team like the Minnesota Wild stuck in mediocrity cause that's what's going to happen if Petro walks. The Blues are this close to losing their captain. I think Petro is good as gone unless Army can get off his high horse and get sonething done.

 

[Blueston]

I'm just going to be honest here. I've been vocal about keeping Petro i make no qualms about it. I've seen some insider reports that are blaming Army for it getting to this point and they say it's clearly Armys ego that is problem here and If it wasn't for Armys ego Petro would be already signed. They say Petro is a player you exceptions for if Army isn't willing to bend his rules to sign the captain, one suggested it should be a fireable offence.

Army and Petro have common ground on term 8x8. We have to do things that are uncomfortable with and this one of those times where Army should've told himself I'm going to swallow my pride and get this done for Petro as he is our captain and an important player to the team and really wants to stay here.

Army needs to suck it up, It's the price you pay to keep the Captain and championship window open or do you want to be a team like the Minnesota Wild stuck in mediocrity cause that's what's going to happen if Petro walks. The Blues are this close to losing their captain. I think Petro is good as gone unless Army can get off his high horse and get sonething done.

You need to be able to recognize the agenda of those making such claims. Army's ego ain't an issue.

 

[Celtic Note]

I'm just going to be honest here. I've been vocal about keeping Petro i make no qualms about it. I've seen some insider reports that are blaming Army for it getting to this point and they say it's clearly Armys ego that is problem here and If it wasn't for Armys ego Petro would be already signed. They say Petro is a player you exceptions for if Army isn't willing to bend his rules to sign the captain, one suggested it should be a fireable offence.

Army and Petro have common ground on term 8x8. We have to do things that are uncomfortable with and this one of those times where Army should've told himself I'm going to swallow my pride and get this done for Petro as he is our captain and an important player to the team and really wants to stay here.

Army needs to suck it up, It's the price you pay to keep the Captain and championship window open or do you want to be a team like the Minnesota Wild stuck in mediocrity cause that's what's going to happen if Petro walks. The Blues are this close to losing their captain. I think Petro is good as gone unless Army can get off his high horse and get sonething done.

Conversely, if Petro’s agent didn’t have an ego, a deal would be done.

 

[blues80]

Conversely, if Petro’s agent didn’t have an ego, a deal would be done.

So u don't think he deserves guaranteed money one of the best d man the blues have ever had

 

[BlueKnight]

Conversely, if Petro’s agent didn’t have an ego, a deal would be done.

That is true as well. But i do have a sliver of hope something will get done

 

[stl76]

I thought he owned the majority in the group? I could totally be wrong but I thought that's why he was the public face and the one at the awards and on the ice when we won the Cup, etc.

I could be wrong as well, so take this with a grain of salt...I think Stillman owns the largest share, but don’t think it’s over 50%.

Regardless, with an ownership group of at least 16, I think the process for making important decisions for the franchise is a bit more complicated than Stillman says yes/no.

 

[Celtic Note]

So u don't think he deserves guaranteed money one of the best d man the blues have ever had

I think he deserves to get paid a fair contract. Part of that fairness includes some guarantees.

Acting like this is only Army’s fault doesn’t make sense to me. Meehan has been known to let his ego shine as well. He and Newport have been the ones pushing contract structure objectives that I find to be over the top (assuming reports are true, which they very well might not be true).

There are multiple sides to a negotiation and everyone of them plays a role. Frankly, I am not picking a side. I don’t think any of us has the full story.

It should be quite clear that I am of the opinion that the Blues either need to sign Petro or rebuild. I would prefer he be resigned. I would prefer that contract be reasonable, unlike the Faulk contract.

Honestly, I am admittedly getting annoyed by this whole soap opera. There are millions of people that are faced with or will face unemployment, furlough, or salary reductions. All this talk about overplayed athletes, agents and teams pales in comparison to the issues most of our society faces regarding pay (equitable and fair). So, please excuse my lack of empathy for people who are or will be overpaid.

 

[Celtic Note]

That is true as well. But i do have a sliver of hope something will get done

Expect the worst, hope for the best.

 

[Celtic Note]

I could be wrong as well, so take this with a grain of salt...I think Stillman owns the largest share, but don’t think it’s over 50%.

Regardless, with an ownership group of at least 16, I think the process for making important decisions for the franchise is a bit more complicated than Stillman says yes/no.

I recall something similar, but I don’t have a source handy.

 

[BlueKnight]

I think he deserves to get paid a fair contract. Part of that fairness includes some guarantees.

Acting like this is only Army’s fault doesn’t make sense to me. Meehan has been known to let his ego shine as well. He and Newport have been the ones pushing contract structure objectives that I find to be over the top (assuming reports are true, which they very well might not be true).

There are multiple sides to a negotiation and everyone of them plays a role. Frankly, I am not picking a side. I don’t think any of us has the full story.

It should be quite clear that I am of the opinion that the Blues either need to sign Petro or rebuild. I would prefer he be resigned. I would prefer that contract be reasonable, unlike the Faulk contract.

Honestly, I am admittedly getting annoyed by this whole soap opera. There are millions of people that are faced with or will face unemployment, furlough, or salary reductions. All this talk about overplayed athletes, agents and teams pales in comparison to the issues most of our society faces regarding pay (equitable and fair). So, please excuse my lack of empathy for people who are or will be overpaid.

I agree. Petro deserves a fair contract and that includes guarantees.

And yes I'm also getting tired of this soap opera and just want it to end.

 

[blues80]

If the don't do it 4 petro were screwed

 

[TK 421]

I think he deserves to get paid a fair contract. Part of that fairness includes some guarantees.

Acting like this is only Army’s fault doesn’t make sense to me. Meehan has been known to let his ego shine as well. He and Newport have been the ones pushing contract structure objectives that I find to be over the top (assuming reports are true, which they very well might not be true).

There are multiple sides to a negotiation and everyone of them plays a role. Frankly, I am not picking a side. I don’t think any of us has the full story.

It should be quite clear that I am of the opinion that the Blues either need to sign Petro or rebuild. I would prefer he be resigned. I would prefer that contract be reasonable, unlike the Faulk contract.

Honestly, I am admittedly getting annoyed by this whole soap opera. There are millions of people that are faced with or will face unemployment, furlough, or salary reductions. All this talk about overplayed athletes, agents and teams pales in comparison to the issues most of our society faces regarding pay (equitable and fair). So, please excuse my lack of empathy for people who are or will be overpaid.

Your last paragraph really resonated with me. I should probably care about whether Petro re-signs here but I just don't. There are far too many other things of actual importance going on in the world and I just can't muster up caring about this.

If they get it done great, if not then best wishes Alex and thank you for everything including making my childhood dream come true after 34 seasons of waiting.

 

[blues80]

If they don't start doing this thell all walk

 

[TruBlu]

Ah, the era of social media. In 20 years no one will use it because they'll realize it's all clickbait.