Should Doug Armstrong get fired if he can't get re-sign Pietrangelo?

Should Doug Armstrong get fired if he can't re-sign Pietrangelo?


  • Total voters
    151

Majorityof1

Registered User
Mar 6, 2014
8,261
6,796
Central Florida
Hmm....Sounds like maybe Armstrong had the right feeling.



How much of that was precipitated by Armstong not making Pietrangelo a priority? Trading for another RHD. Not working on a negotiation early enough. Signing Faulk and Scandella first before really trying with Pietrangelo. Giving Schenn and Faulk 7 years while quibbling over giving Petro term. Not offering any bonus until the 11th hour. All of these things could have been in response to Petro leaning toward leaving. They also could have been a very good cause of it. He did say he had his sights on elsewhere as he got closer to Free agency, not that he has his sights elsewhere from the onset. We likely will never know the which or why on any of it.
 
Apr 30, 2012
21,007
5,358
St. Louis, MO
Hmm....Sounds like maybe Armstrong had the right feeling.


Potentially. But I think the key there is the closer he got part. I have a suspicion, and it’s obviously my own opinion, that if Armstrong was willing to come to the table with a strong offer when Petro wanted to engage after the cup run, that something would have gotten done.

Obviously I caveat that by saying I have no clue how everything went down and it could be completely off base.
 

The Note

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Mar 13, 2011
8,918
7,556
KCMO
It is probably time for a bit of mea culpa (perhaps that no one asked for). I admit I reacted to each bit of news about the negotiations emotionally and defensively. I gave Pietrangelo and his camp a great deal of benefit of the doubt, while providing DA and the Blues little and that wasn't fair. I know the truth is somewhere in the middle and there is blame on both sides. I was mad because things weren't going the way I felt they should be and probably was pretty unpleasant. So I apologize.

Having said that, I stand by my criticisms of how DA has handled these past 14-ish months. And will say I have found Pietrangelo to be one of the most underrated STL athletes of my lifetime and some of the criticisms lobbed at him these past couple of days -which have ranged from the laughable to plain delusional- has done nothing to change that view. Perhaps that is people dealing with him leaving but generally it hasn't felt like that. I suppose it isn't my place to say. I think this team is unquestionably weaker than it has been in some time and they are one or two more misfires away from being down a path that could take years to recover from if they aren't already. The alternative to that is they are also only a move or two away from being setup nicely for the future. At the end of the day I am a Blues fan, and I don't think being mad that Pietrangelo is gone makes that any less true. I will still watch games, post here, and generally devote too much time to a team that -in the grand scheme of things- doesn't really matter. I have just adjusted my expectations. Hopefully I am wrong, but as things stand today, that is where I am at.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
28,859
8,113
Binny had a great run in january and february of 2019 but i dont see any conclusive egidence of him being humongous difference maker going forward. He was bad after the start of december of last year and is still a question mark. Theres a reason blues havent tried talking extension yet with binny this offseason as they want to evaluate and see how he does.
And that's totally fair, we should see if '19 was a fluke or if the '20 playoffs were the fluke. But if he has another monster season and carries this team into another deep playoff run - or even if he just has a really good '20-21 and we sputter in the playoffs because guys can't score a la 2013 vs. the Kings, I don't think you look at him as he's on the doorstep of free agency and make an offer on the order of say 4 years, $20 million with a partial NTC that doesn't apply in the 4th year and think yeah, that's a really fair deal, Binnington would be stupid not to take that - no one's giving him that anywhere else and simultaneously argue if he walks, no big shit - we've got Husso, we've got Hofer, we've got Fitzpatrick, those guys can step in and do exactly the same thing. Either you recognize the value he provides and roll the dice on the contract banking on a bigger win short-term, or you fear the risk of what might be that you can't possibly know and accept the risk of short-changing yourself in the process.
 

BlueKnight

Registered User
Apr 19, 2015
4,507
2,917
Alberta, Canada
It is probably time for a bit of mea culpa (perhaps that no one asked for). I admit I reacted to each bit of news about the negotiations emotionally and defensively. I gave Pietrangelo and his camp a great deal of benefit of the doubt, while providing DA and the Blues little and that wasn't fair. I know the truth is somewhere in the middle and there is blame on both sides. I was mad because things weren't going the way I felt they should be and probably was pretty unpleasant. So I apologize.

Having said that, I stand by my criticisms of how DA has handled these past 14-ish months. And will say I have found Pietrangelo to be one of the most underrated STL athletes of my lifetime and some of the criticisms lobbed at him these past couple of days -which have ranged from the laughable to plain delusional- has done nothing to change that view. Perhaps that is people dealing with him leaving but generally it hasn't felt like that. I suppose it isn't my place to say. I think this team is unquestionably weaker than it has been in some time and they are one or two more misfires away from being down a path that could take years to recover from if they aren't already. The alternative to that is they are also only a move or two away from being setup nicely for the future. At the end of the day I am a Blues fan, and I don't think being mad that Pietrangelo is gone makes that any less true. I will still watch games, post here, and generally devote too much time to a team that -in the grand scheme of things- doesn't really matter. I have just adjusted my expectations. Hopefully I am wrong, but as things stand today, that is where I am at.

Well said. My thoughts exactly
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
28,859
8,113
Still going to say Armstrong shouldn't be fired for this. [I've explained why earlier in this thread.] I do think it's now a fair question to ask whether/when anyone has changed their mind on what would have to happen to push one [back? Thinking of November-December, 2018] to the point of saying, "OK, that's it - winning the Cup in 2019 is no longer worth a pass, it's time for him to go?"
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
19,834
12,658
Hmm....Sounds like maybe Armstrong had the right feeling.


But he's a family guy who will take a discount!! He wants to be here, it's army that's the problem!

Glad he's gone. I want more perron's on my team, not more two faced phonies like pietrangelo.
 

TK 421

Barbashev eats babies pass it on
Sep 12, 2007
6,445
6,090
After Army got done ruining Dallas, they did not make the playoffs for 5 straight years. Prior to that, they had only missed 5 times in the previous 28 years. They did not win a round for 8 years after Doug left.. They only made the playoffs 2 of the 10 years after he left. He ran the team into a hole it was quite difficult for them to get out. He has done the same for us.

Krug, Schenn and Faulk will all be on the team into their late 30's. Those 3 are the longest contracts on the Blues and they will all age like fine dirt. Should we fire Armstrong? It is too late, the damage is done. We have no #1 D, but we have a glut of offensive D with suspect defense who need PP time to thrive. We have no #1 goal-scorer, unless Tarasenko comes back to his former self, but we have several good bottom-6 prospects in the pipeline. Fire Doug, don't fire Doug, whatever. It's too late. Damage done, man, damage done.

Wanted to give @Majorityof1 a bump on this post because he brings up relevant info regarding the end of DA's Dallas tenure and it's a warning to what our future could look like under him. I support DA but supporting him also means acknowledging his gaffes as well, this is something we all need to watch closely lest we end up like Dallas towards the end of his tenure.

Good post, not a pleasant topic but hopefully Doug learned some lessons in Dallas that he doesn't repeat here (obviously from this point forward because as Majority noted damage is already done to an extent but things could always get worse.)
 

tfriede2

Registered User
Aug 8, 2010
4,514
2,971
Wanted to give @Majorityof1 a bump on this post because he brings up relevant info regarding the end of DA's Dallas tenure and it's a warning to what our future could look like under him. I support DA but supporting him also means acknowledging his gaffes as well, this is something we all need to watch closely lest we end up like Dallas towards the end of his tenure.

Good post, not a pleasant topic but hopefully Doug learned some lessons in Dallas that he doesn't repeat here (obviously from this point forward because as Majority noted damage is already done to an extent but things could always get worse.)
It’s a relevant discussion, for sure. Schenn, Faulk, and Krug are signed through ages 36, 35, and 35 (or 36, depending on when the season ends), respectively. It’s not as bad as being signed through late 30’s, but there is great potential for great regret there.
 

bluesfan94

Registered User
Jan 7, 2008
30,720
8,081
St. Louis
After Army got done ruining Dallas, they did not make the playoffs for 5 straight years. Prior to that, they had only missed 5 times in the previous 28 years. They did not win a round for 8 years after Doug left.. They only made the playoffs 2 of the 10 years after he left. He ran the team into a hole it was quite difficult for them to get out. He has done the same for us.

Krug, Schenn and Faulk will all be on the team into their late 30's. Those 3 are the longest contracts on the Blues and they will all age like fine dirt. Should we fire Armstrong? It is too late, the damage is done. We have no #1 D, but we have a glut of offensive D with suspect defense who need PP time to thrive. We have no #1 goal-scorer, unless Tarasenko comes back to his former self, but we have several good bottom-6 prospects in the pipeline. Fire Doug, don't fire Doug, whatever. It's too late. Damage done, man, damage done.
Do it for Ken Holland next.

Interesting that Kyrou is considered bottom 6 now. I'm sure it's not just to make an argument. Anyway, please feel free to send me future lottery numbers given how you know how everything will play out so well.

But if winning a stanley cup and being the top team in the west until covid playoffs is the hole we're in, okay.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
28,859
8,113
After Army got done ruining Dallas, they did not make the playoffs for 5 straight years. Prior to that, they had only missed 5 times in the previous 28 years. They did not win a round for 8 years after Doug left.. They only made the playoffs 2 of the 10 years after he left. He ran the team into a hole it was quite difficult for them to get out. He has done the same for us.
As much as I bag and have bagged on Armstrong's tenure between Dallas and St. Louis, and as much as I'll probably bag on his performance here going forward [because he'll probably earn it], even I have to concede we're not in dire straits at this point. I don't think we're in the best shape we could have been, but we could be a hell of a lot worse had it gone here like it did in Dallas and if the start of '18-19 had continued on and we're looking at a prospect system that's kind of barren and he's throwing yet another 1st-round pick to try and desperately salvage anything.

What's interesting to note if you look at the historical record: Armstrong-GM'd teams have had more success when they do not have home-ice advantage in a series than when they do have it. [I know I posted stats a while back on this.] The Cup run last year, we were on the road to start 3 of the 4 series and the 4th had to go to 2OT. It will be interesting to see if that improves, or if the pattern of his teams doing really well in the regular season and blowing home-ice in the playoffs continues.

Could it be worse? Yeah. Do I expect it to get worse? Yep. Are we there yet? No, which is why I'm willing to see if whatever plan he has for success really works or if he shows that 2019 was a one-time thing that he doesn't get close to matching.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->