Speculation: Shattenkirk

[MissouriMook]

I understand this, but at the same time, why spend anything more than expendable assets for a guy who is going to be available to the highest bidder in less than a year

The omnipresent fallacy in this line of thinking is that you believe that your team will be able to sign a UFA just because they want to. The open market doesn't work that way. The only way to ensure that you can acquire the player is to trade for their rights. Like it or not, if you are trading for a player and extending their contract as a part of the deal, "fair value" for that player is the same as if they were already controlled under that extended contract.

 

[tempest2i]

I would really like the Oil to get Shattenkirk, but I'm under no illusions that the Oilers can sign him to an extension unless the team does a 180 and suddenly enjoys success next season.

 

[Ranksu]

The omnipresent fallacy in this line of thinking is that you believe that your team will be able to sign a UFA just because they want to. The open market doesn't work that way. The only way to ensure that you can acquire the player is to trade for their rights. Like it or not, if you are trading for a player and extending their contract as a part of the deal, "fair value" for that player is the same as if they were already controlled under that extended contract.

Well Rangers will take that change, they only have to fight against teams like Boston and NJ on UFA market, I just assume those are Shattery's top3 choises. Ofc they need to pay more to get him in cap wise.

Only team who is losing here is us Blues.

 

[Whitsmith803]

JR of the STLPD - said the Oilers were alright with not having Shattenkirk signed prior to deal and wanted Shattenkirk plus for Hall.

Makes me think the RNH and Yakupov
For Shattenkirk and Sobi

Blues get the Center and RW they need and Oilers get the RHD they need with third line centre with grit

This makes more sense then trading for anymore LW players. Blues biggest need is Center and RW.
I believe that Blues will take Top Prospects ready or almost NHrL ready.

Kreider/Hayes Rangers
Barzal/Ho-song Islanders
Zacha/Speers- Devils
Khokhlachev/Spooner Bruins

Any of these deals will help Blues and counterparts I really want RNH hopefully Blues can swing it!

 

[Note Worthy]

JR of the STLPD - said the Oilers were alright with not having Shattenkirk signed prior to deal and wanted Shattenkirk plus for Hall.

There's no way that's true and I haven't seen that from JR. If that were the case Shattenkirk would have been traded. There would have been nothing holding the trade back.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Oils would be damn scary if Shattenkirk went there and stayed long term.. I'd actually be quite leary trading him to edmonton cause since they acquired Larsson, Shatty could be the last piece of the puzzle for a very long time of dominance in edmonton haha... would most likely come back to haunt the Blues!

I really do believe that we are a top 4 RH offensive defenseman away from making some big time noise as a team. For all of the LOL's at the Oilers over the Hall for Larsson trade IMO it along with the Lucic signing moved our team forward in a big way.

Truthfully, Edmonton would be a much better destination for Shattenkirk now that they have Larsson. Larsson can handle most of the defensive responsibility on the right side. And Shattenkirk can be played accordingly and given much more offensive zone starts. He wouldn't have to be the #1 guy, really, and that's the position where he will succeed most.

It's a shame that he's still unlikely to have changed his mind.

In terms of a professional situation, I agree that Larsson's addition would mean less stress on Shattenkirk, he wouldn't be forced into a heavy D-zone type of a role unless injuries hit the Oilers hard. He would then get gifted top PP time with the likes of McDavid and Lucic alone with 2 of RNH, Draisaitl, Eberle and Puljujarvi.

That said if his heart is set on east coast living there's not much that we can do about that.

Yeah it's too bad. From a "pure hockey trade" perspective, Edmonton makes lots of sense. The Oilers also have assets at forward that would likely intrigue the Blues and their needs.

However, without an extension in place/desire to play in EDM, it makes any talk a non-starter.

If he came at a cheap cost I would take a shot at him and hope that he likes it enough to stay. Giving up significant assets for him without an extension in place however would be a non starter.

There's no way that's true and I haven't seen that from JR. If that were the case Shattenkirk would have been traded. There would have been nothing holding the trade back.

Agreed, if it were true Shattenkirk would be an Oiler and Hall a Blue.

 

[BlueDream]

You guys are missing the second part of that post. JR speculated that the Oilers could have wanted additional pieces added to Shattenkirk, which is very much possible. There was no confirmation it was ever going to be a straight up 1-for-1 trade. If he wasn't signing an extension, it makes sense for them to ask for more to make up for the lost value.

 

[Spektre]

It's been reported by Korac that the Blues were interested in Eberle & Hall but Shattenkirk wouldn't resign in Edmonton.

Someone with tweet pasting skills can do a better job but this is the link:

https://twitter.com/lkorac10/status/748247771665227776

I'm a big Army critic. Shattenkirk not wanting to sign for Edmonton isn't any of Army's fault. I don't understand either GM's thinking though. RNH seems like the player that should have been traded instead of Hall. With McDavid being 1, and Draisatl a 2 C why pay the 3C 6m? Then why is Army going after a winger over a C when C's ar the Blues' biggest need.

Anyway, as much as a fit in trading partners as Edmonton and St.L are if Shattenkirk does get dealt to Edmonton it'll be for 1 year of service, thus the expectation on the return should be based on that.

I'm done trying to figure out what Army will do. It's still fun to come up with ideas. If it's an extension in place to Boston I'd be thrilled with Lauzon & Spooner.

 

[Whitsmith803]

There's no way that's true and I haven't seen that from JR. If that were the case Shattenkirk would have been traded. There would have been nothing holding the trade back.

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-st-louis-blues-kevin-shattenkirk-sobotka-schwartz/2016/07/16/

Again - I'm all about getting top Value for Shattenkirk and believe with Colt55 Blues no longer need Shatty.
Need to get cost controlled players at the Center position
It's a must!

 

[tempest2i]

It's been reported by Korac that the Blues were interested in Eberle & Hall but Shattenkirk wouldn't resign in Edmonton.

Someone with tweet pasting skills can do a better job but this is the link:

https://twitter.com/lkorac10/status/748247771665227776

I'm a big Army critic. Shattenkirk not wanting to sign for Edmonton isn't any of Army's fault. I don't understand either GM's thinking though. RNH seems like the player that should have been traded instead of Hall. With McDavid being 1, and Draisatl a 2 C why pay the 3C 6m? Then why is Army going after a winger over a C when C's ar the Blues' biggest need.

Anyway, as much as a fit in trading partners as Edmonton and St.L are if Shattenkirk does get dealt to Edmonton it'll be for 1 year of service, thus the expectation on the return should be based on that.

I'm done trying to figure out what Army will do. It's still fun to come up with ideas. If it's an extension in place to Boston I'd be thrilled with Lauzon & Spooner.

Because Draisaitl and McDavid are very young and lack experience. If you want to win, putting all your eggs into a basket carried two guys under the age of 21 is probably a bad idea. You don't have to trust me on this, but as an Oilers fan I have seen what it looks like when you rely too heavily on talented young players that are still developing.

 

[Spektre]

Because Draisaitl and McDavid are very young and lack experience. If you want to win, putting all your eggs into a basket carried two guys under the age of 21 is probably a bad idea. You don't have to trust me on this, but as an Oilers fan I have seen what it looks like when you rely too heavily on talented young players that are still developing.

If RNH was a 30 year old I'd agree with you. He just turned 23 right? For Edmonton's sake I'd hope RNH isn't finished developing. It seems he's still in the conversation that you put McDavid & Draisatl in.

 

[tempest2i]

If RNH was a 30 year old I'd agree with you. He just turned 23 right? For Edmonton's sake I'd hope RNH isn't finished developing. It seems he's still in the conversation that you put McDavid & Draisatl in.

RNH is entering his 6th season in the NHL. He has the experience and trust of the coaching staff to take on any assignment that is asked of him. RNH is what he is: an all situations center that can play 20+ minutes a night, contribute on your powerplay, kill penalties, give you 50+ points a season and learned his craft battling the likes of Kopitar, the Sedins, Getzlaf/Perry and the Sharks.

I'm not sure how much more Ryan has that he hasn't already shown.

 

[bluetuned]

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-st-louis-blues-kevin-shattenkirk-sobotka-schwartz/2016/07/16/

Again - I'm all about getting top Value for Shattenkirk and believe with Colt55 Blues no longer need Shatty.
Need to get cost controlled players at the Center position
It's a must!

Here is JR's actual quote on the matter, which was from a chat.

Note that he frames it as purely speculation on his part:

On the situation with Edmonton, I don't believe Shattenkirk would have signed there long-term and that likely prevented a deal. HOWEVER, I don't think this is all on Shattenkirk. I think Edmonton might have wanted more in return for Taylor Hall than Shattenkirk. Perhaps the Oilers would have taken Shattenkirk without a long-term deal and that's why they were asking for more than him alone. But I believe what ended any chance of swapping Shattenkirk and Hall was the Blues unwillingness to give up any more. As far as Eberle, etc., Edmonton got their D-man and they're now down a forward, so I'm not sure if they're looking to trade Eberle or RNH at this point.

 

[Note Worthy]

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-st-louis-blues-kevin-shattenkirk-sobotka-schwartz/2016/07/16/

Again - I'm all about getting top Value for Shattenkirk and believe with Colt55 Blues no longer need Shatty.
Need to get cost controlled players at the Center position
It's a must!

If you read what JR actually said he simply speculated that it was possible the Oilers were okay without Shattenkirk extended and they just wanted more value from the Blues to off set that.

You stated it as if JR stated it as a fact.

 

[NJRockinRoller]

From NJ I would offer:

2018 1st
2017 2nd
Mid Tier Prospect (Blandisi)

When you compare that to the Rangers package for Yandle, its in-line, because having to wiat a year for the 1st and the step down in players involved are relative to the difference in term left on the main piece's deal.

Yandle had 2 years left under contract and Shatt has only 1.

If STL can beat that, God Bless.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Leafs offer 2017 1st for him top 5 protected

 

[McSuper]

I would really like the Oil to get Shattenkirk, but I'm under no illusions that the Oilers can sign him to an extension unless the team does a 180 and suddenly enjoys success next season.

I would have liked it too , but as Oilers fans have said all along he wants to sign in the east . Blues fans question that . Here a little write up on that .

The Edmonton Oilers were in the hunt for a right-handed, puck-moving defenseman, and were reportedly in on plenty of names: P.K. Subban, Kevin Shattenkirk, Jacob Trouba, etc. However, they eventually stopped spinning the wheel and decided to land on and settle with New Jersey Devils defenseman Adam Larsson, a big right-handed shutdown blueliner.

Greg Wyshynski of Puck Daddy on Yahoo! Sports cited Jeremy Rutherford of the St. Louis Dispatch, who had a run-down of the entire situation that happened with Shattenkirk, who has a year remaining on his contract and is still with the Blues after weeks of trade speculation.

“On the situation with Edmonton, I don’t believe Shattenkirk would have signed there long-term and that likely prevented a deal. However, I don’t think this is all on Shattenkirk. I think Edmonton might have wanted more in return for Taylor Hall than Shattenkirk. Perhaps the Oilers would have taken Shattenkikr without a long-term deal and that’s why they were asking for more than him alone. But I believe what ended any chance of swapping Shattenkirk and Hall was the Blues’ unwillingness to give up any more. As far as Eberle, etc., Edmonton got their D-Man and now they’re down a forward, so I’m not sure if they’re looking to trade Eberle or RNH at this point.” – Jeremy Rutherford

He pointed this out as “McDavid fever,” and unfortunately, it did not get Shattenkirk. However, looking at this, I think that Larsson is the better pick-up for Edmonton. He takes care of the puck and is a young defenseman still developing and capable of taking on big minutes. Shattenkirk is a number-four defender in St. Louis and though he produces a lot of points and quarterbacks a power-play, he can struggle defensively and lacks size (he is only 5-foot-11).

 

[wintersej]

The omnipresent fallacy in this line of thinking is that you believe that your team will be able to sign a UFA just because they want to. The open market doesn't work that way. The only way to ensure that you can acquire the player is to trade for their rights. Like it or not, if you are trading for a player and extending their contract as a part of the deal, "fair value" for that player is the same as if they were already controlled under that extended contract.

But it depends on if Shattenkirk's camp will immediately agree to a deal or not and how much that deal is for. If he is saying, "sure, I'll sign for 8x8" or "sure, I'll sign for 5X6" that changes his value significantly.

So does the size of the market. If I am trying to sell off my $1000 gold watch at all the pawn shops in town and everyone is offering $500, I can take it or leave it. I can say its worth $1000 until I am blue in the face, but at some point I have to decide whether I want $500 or nothing. Right now, without salary going back to STL, I don't see what the market is beyond Boston and Detroit and they seem to be holding fast, or at least waiting until Trouba is 1000% off the market and on what is up with Fowler/Barrie. STL is going to end up self-renting Shattenkirk to play on the bottom pairing or end up with a disappointing return at this point.

 

[bleedblue1223]

But it depends on if Shattenkirk's camp will immediately agree to a deal or not and how much that deal is for. If he is saying, "sure, I'll sign for 8x8" or "sure, I'll sign for 5X6" that changes his value significantly.

So does the size of the market. If I am trying to sell off my $1000 gold watch at all the pawn shops in town and everyone is offering $500, I can take it or leave it. I can say its worth $1000 until I am blue in the face, but at some point I have to decide whether I want $500 or nothing. Right now, without salary going back to STL, I don't see what the market is beyond Boston and Detroit and they seem to be holding fast, or at least waiting until Trouba is 1000% off the market and on what is up with Fowler/Barrie. STL is going to end up self-renting Shattenkirk to play on the bottom pairing or end up with a disappointing return at this point.

It doesn't have to be no salary, it can be a salary neutral trade, and most teams have the space to take Shattenkirk on. Right now, we don't know what the Shattenkirk market is, so no need is speculating one way or the other.

Most likely, I see Barrie staying, and Fowler and Shattenkirk moving. It will just depend on which buyer or seller makes the first move.

 

[bluetuned]

But it depends on if Shattenkirk's camp will immediately agree to a deal or not and how much that deal is for. If he is saying, "sure, I'll sign for 8x8" or "sure, I'll sign for 5X6" that changes his value significantly.

So does the size of the market. If I am trying to sell off my $1000 gold watch at all the pawn shops in town and everyone is offering $500, I can take it or leave it. I can say its worth $1000 until I am blue in the face, but at some point I have to decide whether I want $500 or nothing. Right now, without salary going back to STL, I don't see what the market is beyond Boston and Detroit and they seem to be holding fast, or at least waiting until Trouba is 1000% off the market and on what is up with Fowler/Barrie. STL is going to end up self-renting Shattenkirk to play on the bottom pairing or end up with a disappointing return at this point.

Well, if all he was asking for was 5x6 the Blues would likely try to find a way to keep him. If you want to see his asking price, look at what Yandle got from Florida and start adding. Shattenkirk's agent is going to be talking 7x7 or more.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I see him signing for 7 years at 6.5 million.

 

[bluetuned]

I see him signing for 7 years at 6.5 million.

I think it comes down to whether he wants to get a bidding war going. If he lets a bunch of teams go at it I think he'll get over 7M. If he limits it to a few teams as speculated I think 6.5Mx7 is likely. Either way, if he doesn't get more than Yandle his agent has dropped the ball.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think it comes down to whether he wants to get a bidding war going. If he lets a bunch of teams go at it I think he'll get over 7M. If he limits it to a few teams as speculated I think 6.5Mx7 is likely. Either way, if he doesn't get more than Yandle his agent has dropped the ball.

Lately teams have been overpaying in term, and not cap hit. Burns, Alzner, and to a lesser extent Kulikov will impact the market as well.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

JR of the STLPD - said the Oilers were alright with not having Shattenkirk signed prior to deal and wanted Shattenkirk plus for Hall.

Makes me think the RNH and Yakupov
For Shattenkirk and Sobi

Blues get the Center and RW they need and Oilers get the RHD they need with third line centre with grit

This makes more sense then trading for anymore LW players. Blues biggest need is Center and RW.
I believe that Blues will take Top Prospects ready or almost NHrL ready.

Kreider/Hayes Rangers
Barzal/Ho-song Islanders
Zacha/Speers- Devils
Khokhlachev/Spooner Bruins

Any of these deals will help Blues and counterparts I really want RNH hopefully Blues can swing it!

We have zero need for Shattenkirk, so trading our top prospects for him doesn't really make sense.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

From NJ I would offer:

2018 1st
2017 2nd
Mid Tier Prospect (Blandisi)

When you compare that to the Rangers package for Yandle, its in-line, because having to wiat a year for the 1st and the step down in players involved are relative to the difference in term left on the main piece's deal.

Yandle had 2 years left under contract and Shatt has only 1.

If STL can beat that, God Bless.

Agreed from this Devils fan. 2018 first rounder, 2017 2nd, Joe Blandisi for Shattenkirk.
Then sign Shattenkirk 6-8 years at 6.5 million per.