Speculation: Shattenkirk

Maurice of Orange

Wahatquenak
Feb 5, 2016
10,155
6,772
I'd hate to say this but I think New Jersey would have had the edge in trading for Shattenkirk, due to the fact that they have abundant cap space available.

The only problem with that is the Devils don't have many players that would interest St. Louis in a trade for Shattenkirk except for Pavel Zacha, Adam Henrique and Taylor Hall and I can't see NJ giving up their best young offensive players.
In Hall's case NJ just traded for him their not going to trade him away.
 

bluetuned

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
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Simmonds and Kuznetzov are absolutely pipe dreams. Put those thoughts to rest.

The other issue that people often ignore is that the Blues simply don't have any need at LW. Unless it's a guy like Hall who is a clear upgrade over anybody on the roster now, the Blues don't have the room at that position. Steen, Schwartz, and Fabbri are all primarily LWs. Even if one shifts to Center, you're still talking about somebody getting 3rd line minutes if we get another for Shattenkirk. JVR, Kreider, Burakovsky... all LWs.

RW, C, LD. Those are the areas of need.
 

ghdi

Registered User
Feb 4, 2009
2,445
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NJ
I'd hate to say this but I think New Jersey would have had the edge in trading for Shattenkirk, due to the fact that they have abundant cap space available.

The only problem with that is the Devils don't have many players that would interest St. Louis in a trade for Shattenkirk except for Pavel Zacha, Adam Henrique and Taylor Hall and I can't see NJ giving up their best young offensive players.
In Hall's case NJ just traded for him their not going to trade him away.

We don't need to give up any of those names for Shattenkirk. If hes traded before training camp, I don't think the Devils will be in the market for him as St. Louis' demands will be too high, however, the trade deadline is a whole different discussion. I absolutely could see our 1st, a prospect, and middling roster player get it done, but it completely depends on how both teams are doing. I don't give up our first if we're not in a playoff position at the deadline and wait until offseason to approach him.

St. Louis isn't bending anyone over for Shattenkirk this close to UFA. I've said it 1000 times in these discussons. Shattenkirk is Yandle 2.0. They're not going to get this blockbuster return that some of their fans are expecting and their management will hesitate if they're playing well come midseason. If Shattenkirk had multiple years left it would be an entirely different situation. There's only so many teams in the area of the country he wants to go that can afford his upcoming contract.
 

57special

Posting the right way since 2012.
Sep 5, 2012
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Shattenkirk is still our 2nd best dman. Parakyo is likely better defensively, and as the year goes on the gap between the two will likely shrink to very little - and that has nothing to do with Shatty not being a top 30/20 dman.

He is on our 3rd pairing, RHD. Which, he should not be. Our RHD depth is quite nice, and Shattenkirk, isn't as comfortable on his offside. He is a 2nd pairing, potential top pairing talent.


:laugh:

BOS seems logical. Spooner? Picks? Though with Krug signed, maybe his PP talents are less of a need. He's not exactly a defensive stopper.
 

WalterSobchak

Blues Trololol
Mar 11, 2004
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Unless the Blues are having a crap season and are out of playoff contention, high end players like Shattenkirk don't get moved at the TDL. Contenders just do not sell, they likely add. Making a run at the Cup is far more important that worrying about trying to get value back on a pending UFA.

who is selling, he said good center. call it high end center. while I agree with your sentiment, he addressed the parameters of what sort of deal the Blues would do, depending on the situation of course.

injuries happen, having the depth options of Pietro, Shatty and Parayko is probably worth holding onto him going into the play-offs but who knows what the situation is come the TDL.
 

Lindberg Cheese

Registered User
Apr 28, 2013
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Let's cut to the chase, Shattenkirk is forcing a trade to the Rangers who will lock him up. It'll be something like Shattenkirk/Berglund/+ for Nash (retained?, haven't run the numbers)/Hayes.
 

Oates2Neely

Registered User
Jan 19, 2010
19,450
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Massachusetts
Simmonds and Kuznetzov are absolutely pipe dreams. Put those thoughts to rest.

The other issue that people often ignore is that the Blues simply don't have any need at LW. Unless it's a guy like Hall who is a clear upgrade over anybody on the roster now, the Blues don't have the room at that position. Steen, Schwartz, and Fabbri are all primarily LWs. Even if one shifts to Center, you're still talking about somebody getting 3rd line minutes if we get another for Shattenkirk. JVR, Kreider, Burakovsky... all LWs.

RW, C, LD. Those are the areas of need.

Wait, for one year of Shattenkirk the Blues aren't top flight names in return. Think a draft pick + prospect.
 

tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
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Shattenkirk will be a guy a lot of teams covet, got to think if made available St.Louis will be fielding a lot of offers for him. He'd make a lot of sense in Edmonton.
 

Mad Brills*

Guest
I mean remember the kadri rumours last season, think of something like that.
 

kimzey59

Registered User
Aug 16, 2003
5,694
1,975
This post typifies the unrealistic nature of Blues fans hopes and demands. It is not Shattenkirk's term that limits his trade value. It's Shattenkirk's term PLUS his limited list. If only a couple teams are on Shattenkirk's list AND have a need AND have cap space AND have cheap young assets that means fewer teams are bidding and its a buyers market. How that isn't obvious to people blows my mind. None of the names listed above will come back to STL in a trade. Philly isn't giving up young forwards with their defensive prospect pool and shallow forward pool in the NHL and at the prospect level. FLA ain't paying Demers to play 3rd pairing. Tampa can't afford it. Washingon wouldn't give up Kuz in a million years. STL is either getting something similar or less than the Yandle deal or self renting.

And Yandle brought back a mid-1st round pick(20th overall in 2016), Anthony Duclair(an NHL ready, high end forward prospect who has developed into a 20 goal scorer) and a low 2nd round pick.

Show me an offer anywhere close to that and we'll consider it.
Trying to pluck Shattenkirk from us with Long Range prospects and low-end 1st's isn't going to work either.

The value has to be there or it makes more sense for us to just rent him to ourselves.
And that value starts with the NHL ready prospect.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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Nova Scotia
And Yandle brought back a mid-1st round pick(20th overall in 2016), Anthony Duclair(an NHL ready, high end forward prospect who has developed into a 20 goal scorer) and a low 2nd round pick.

Show me an offer anywhere close to that and we'll consider it.
Trying to pluck Shattenkirk from us with Long Range prospects and low-end 1st's isn't going to work either.

The value has to be there or it makes more sense for us to just rent him to ourselves.
And that value starts with the NHL ready prospect.

Except Yandle was traded when the NYR got 2 playoff runs out of him. Trading for Shatty now gives you only 1. That decreases the value.
 

Skinnyjimmy08

WorldTraveler
Mar 30, 2012
22,511
11,988
What is a area of need for Blues? IMO there really aren't too many weaknesses on the current roster.. especially with rumors of Sobotka returning. A return of picks/prospects would be a good idea I would think cause there will be some big money having to be used on young players soon.
 

KirkOut

EveryoneOut
Nov 23, 2012
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What is a area of need for Blues? IMO there really aren't too many weaknesses on the current roster.. especially with rumors of Sobotka returning. A return of picks/prospects would be a good idea I would think cause there will be some big money having to be used on young players soon.

For Shattenkirk, they should be targeting

- a top-end 2nd line RW
- a low-end 1st line offense-first C
- offense-first center prospects
 

Tim Vezina Thomas

Registered User
Jun 4, 2009
11,342
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:laugh:

BOS seems logical. Spooner? Picks? Though with Krug signed, maybe his PP talents are less of a need. He's not exactly a defensive stopper.

I think it's likely STL and BOS have discussed Shatty at length.

It's interesting, id give up a lot for w signed Shatty, he immediately becomes our best d man.

And Krug should have nothing to do with Shatty, both could play on the same PP.
 

67Blues

Got it for Bobby
Mar 22, 2013
4,551
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Section 111
Let's cut to the chase, Shattenkirk is forcing a trade to the Rangers who will lock him up. It'll be something like Shattenkirk/Berglund/+ for Nash (retained?, haven't run the numbers)/Hayes.

I'd be all for Nash for that list if the Rangers held back say $6M/year. :laugh: Nash's contract is absolutely brutal and will be an anchor for the Blues as their ELC players look for raises. We'll have this same conversation next year when we can't afford Parayko.
 

Freudian

Clearly deranged
Jul 3, 2003
50,471
17,343
It's a hard trade to make unless it's as a pure rental.

Most figure Shattenkirk has his eyes set on a few teams and at a certain salary and it means most teams don't have a chance to re-sign him.
 

Boxscore

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If the Flyers make a play for Shatty, it would be D going back to STL - not forwards. The Flyers have too much D as there is, just left shot heavy.

The Caps have no need for Shatty - they already have a right shot D capable of running a main PP in Carlson. Not in a million years would they give up a Kuznetsov or Burakovsky for Shatty.
 

BA Carroll

Registered User
Mar 2, 2014
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What is a area of need for Blues? IMO there really aren't too many weaknesses on the current roster.. especially with rumors of Sobotka returning. A return of picks/prospects would be a good idea I would think cause there will be some big money having to be used on young players soon.

Some people put too much emphasis on position. The truth is, every forward on the Blues roster not named Tarasenko or Reaves is, in reality, a utility forward--you can plug them in anywhere on the roster and they'll perform fine, chemistry issues notwithstanding.

So, when gauging the Blues' needs, it's not a simple matter of determining what positions they are weak in--it's a matter of identifying skill sets, abilities, characteristics, etc., that will help them ice a more balanced roster.

As the team is currently configured, the Blues' biggest areas of weakness are:

-Speed--someone to lead the forecheck, break open plays, and keep opposing defenses honest. Overall lack of team speed has been a glaring problem Hitch has been harping on for years, but you can only squeeze so much lemon juice out of a lemon.

-Size--Blues finally addressed that on defense with the emergence of Parayko and Edmundson--which was sheer luck. Blues right now no longer have the personnel to play a "heavy" game--and unless they mitigate that by adding more speed and skill, it will be a problem. Promoting Jaskin, who hasn't shown that he can use his size effectively at the NHL level, isn't going to help.

-Grit--With Backes and Brouwer gone, we need someone with big brass ones capable of parking in the crease and deflecting shots. Right now, Ryan Reaves is the only guy on the roster who fits the bill, and that doesn't inspire much confidence. Also, if other teams take liberties with our young skilled players, who is going to step up to defend their teammates? Like it or not, that stuff does happen. We don't want a guy like Fabbri or Schwartz having to moonlight as Billy Jack--they deserve to have at least one teammate in the top-6 rotation who can step up when necessary.

-Leadership. Like him or not, Stastny is not a leader. I don't see Steen as being much of a leader, either--he only has a year on his contract, and he's a sulky, introverted kind of guy who just isn't ideal for the role--though he certainly leads by example through his work ethic and admirable consistency. Tarasenko just isn't ready. Pietrangelo will almost certainly be the next captain, but he needs more veterans to help shoulder the burden.

Playmaking--And of course, like any team, they can always use an upgrade on playmaking, "finishing" (i.e., goal scoring), and such. While players can swap around the lineup, you still need to have a pivot who can make plays, win faceoffs and be responsible in all zones.

-Trading Shattenkirk for Kreider would address size and speed.
-Trading Shattenkirk for Bjugstad would address size and grit.
-Trading Shattenkirk + Lehtera for Stepan would address playmaking and leadership.
-Trading Berglund for Hartnell would address grit and leadership.

Certainly there are other options. And there are solid arguments against trading or trading for any of these players. I'm just suggesting these are the areas the Blues are most likely looking at, and I'm sure they are exploring ways to address them within the salary cap constraints they have.
 

BA Carroll

Registered User
Mar 2, 2014
307
54
If the Flyers make a play for Shatty, it would be D going back to STL - not forwards. The Flyers have too much D as there is, just left shot heavy.

The Caps have no need for Shatty - they already have a right shot D capable of running a main PP in Carlson. Not in a million years would they give up a Kuznetsov or Burakovsky for Shatty.

Taking back a defenseman in a trade for Shattenkirk defeats the purpose of moving him. Blues need to move salary from their defense to their offense.

Now, if they could find a way to trade Bouwmeester for a comparable/younger/cheaper LHD, I'm sure they'd be all over that. But it isn't going to happen.
 

SteenMachine

Registered User
Oct 19, 2008
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We don't need to give up any of those names for Shattenkirk. If hes traded before training camp, I don't think the Devils will be in the market for him as St. Louis' demands will be too high, however, the trade deadline is a whole different discussion. I absolutely could see our 1st, a prospect, and middling roster player get it done, but it completely depends on how both teams are doing. I don't give up our first if we're not in a playoff position at the deadline and wait until offseason to approach him.

St. Louis isn't bending anyone over for Shattenkirk this close to UFA. I've said it 1000 times in these discussons. Shattenkirk is Yandle 2.0. They're not going to get this blockbuster return that some of their fans are expecting and their management will hesitate if they're playing well come midseason. If Shattenkirk had multiple years left it would be an entirely different situation. There's only so many teams in the area of the country he wants to go that can afford his upcoming contract.

The whole point of a trade to a team like NJ is that he would accept an extension after the trade was completed. It's the main reason people are even discussing it in the first place. It's obviously not because NJ has a long list of desirable pieces to offer. People aren't expecting a blockbuster, they're reminding people that a 40+ pt defensemen that carries a powerplay from the right side has immense value to certain teams and GMs. Including the one he already plays for, which is why they're not selling him off for someone's expendables.
 

KirkOut

EveryoneOut
Nov 23, 2012
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The whole point of a trade to a team like NJ is that he would accept an extension after the trade was completed. It's the main reason people are even discussing it in the first place. It's obviously not because NJ has a long list of desirable pieces to offer. People aren't expecting a blockbuster, they're reminding people that a 40+ pt defensemen that carries a powerplay from the right side has immense value to certain teams and GMs. Including the one he already plays for, which is why they're not selling him off for someone's expendables.

Yep. It's so confusing/funny when BOS/NYR/NJ fans in these threads say they don't want to give up anything "for a year" of Shattenkirk. talk about a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation...
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,841
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Nova Scotia
Yep. It's so confusing/funny when BOS/NYR/NJ fans in these threads say they don't want to give up anything "for a year" of Shattenkirk. talk about a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation...

Maybe they don't want to see a Lucic situation happen.

St.L fans want to assume that a deal between Shatty and had acquiring team will happen so that you can justify a better return that helps your team now.

You don't want D.
You don't want wingers.
You want a C who can step in and be a #1 C. Not a lot of teams have 2 of those so they can give one away. But I guess Bo's and NYR do.

But unless teams are allowed to talk to Shatty's agent, the offers will be futures...just like the Lucic deal.
 

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