Rumor: Sharks GM Doug Wilson looking desperately to get a first for rebuild mode

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

Until he breaks into the NHL, I'm not caring about the pumping of a prospect's tires. Balcers is tearing up the AHL too and hasn't been able to prove himself at the NHL level. Until they do, prospect heists don't mean anything. You got a solid 2C in Tierney and a solid #4 in DeMelo that's going to get rented for a 2nd and maybe something else. The rest is still wait and see.

He’s played about half a season, but he showed that he belongs in the NHL, however for his development and the rest of our young guys it was obviously better to have them down in the AHL.

 

[The don godfather]

There is no denying that wilson worst trade and could hurt the franchise. Wouldn't be surprised he gets his walking papers especially if pick is lotto pick.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I think most of us are shocked the Sharks remained as good as they did for so long.

This team was always destined to become too old, like Detroit, but you guys had a very legitimate run as a contender.
(The Finals appearance really screwed up the timeline though).


The pieces you have to the contracts you've signed depreciated so greatly, they're actually not worth very much anymore.

Burns might fetch you guys the same return PK Subban got, but I doubt it.
You'll be lucky to find a team that will want to trade for him without significant salary retention, or significant garbage cap sent back.

Karlsson won't fetch anything close to what he was traded for.
Vlasic will be about as easy to trade as Seabrook.


The league now sees most of the Sharks core, as a collection of aged albatross contracts.

 

[fasterthanlight]

TBH I don't think the sharks are that far away from not sucking. They aren't going to be a top top team, but if you can move burns for some futures, sign a few UFA 2nd liners, cannon Jones into the sun, and get a goalie to hit 905 sv% consistently, a playoff contention isn't out of the question.

 

[Deebs]

I'd probably do a 1st for Lebanc, but unless they're dangling Hertl or Meier, which they almost certainly are not, then not much interests me.

What has Lebanc done in his career to earn a 1st round pick needed to acquire him?

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

What has Lebanc done in his career to earn a 1st round pick needed to acquire him?

He’s 24 and had 56 points last year, but he hasn’t maintained that level of play this year. But neither have the sharks overall so hard to say.

 

[Kamiccolo]

As far as I can tell, the biggest thing the Sharks should be looking for is a starting goalie. I think a good one can mask a lot of their issues.

But it's a bandaid. Their aging roster and term locked in vets will prevent them from ever rebuilding. Even if they luck into a franchise forward, in 3 years when the ELC is over, they have over 50M locked into their vet core. They can't afford the 10M the RFA gets. Nevermind a supporting cast.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He’s played about half a season, but he showed that he belongs in the NHL, however for his development and the rest of our young guys it was obviously better to have them down in the AHL.

I disagree with that simply because if they felt like he belonged, they wouldn't have him in the AHL. The best thing for anyone's development, especially those that supposedly belong in the NHL, is to play against NHL competition to get better. Balcers has to score at a clip that overrides his lack of defensive ability and that's hard to do in the NHL. He's not there as of yet.

 

[Dicdonya]

What has Lebanc done in his career to earn a 1st round pick needed to acquire him?

Nothing that say a 25th overall pick is guaranteed to do.

So might as well keep the lotto ticket, wouldn't want to waste it on a 24yo that has scored the 9th most points of any forward from his draft year, and already came close to scoring 60pts, those kinda guys grow like trees in the later rounds of the first.

 

[Sjsharks5]

As far as I can tell, the biggest thing the Sharks should be looking for is a starting goalie. I think a good one can mask a lot of their issues.

But it's a bandaid. Their aging roster and term locked in vets will prevent them from ever rebuilding. Even if they luck into a franchise forward, in 3 years when the ELC is over, they have over 50M locked into their vet core. They can't afford the 10M the RFA gets. Nevermind a supporting cast.

A franchise forward is the one thing that I think would quite literally turn the franchise around. I thought Hertl had a chance to develop into that PPG+ player, and he still could I guess, but a bonafide star In the Pettersson, Pastrnak, etc that would fit around Hertl, Meier, Couture and Kane would go a long way to stabilizing the team.

That won’t make a difference without fixing the goaltending, but I think that goes without saying. The rest of the roster doesn’t matter with how Jones has played, and Dell doesn’t seem like he’s equipped to carry an average roster either.

 

[Nolan11]

What has Lebanc done in his career to earn a 1st round pick needed to acquire him?

LaBanc is a young 50 point play making winger with 2nd line potential, making 1M this year and then RFA for another 3. Any contender needing offense at the deadline should be willing to part with their 1st. (Would be lucky to draft a LaBanc at 20-31st overall)

 

[Perfect_Drug]

A franchise forward is the one thing that I think would quite literally turn the franchise around. I thought Hertl had a chance to develop into that PPG+ player, and he still could I guess, but a bonafide star In the Pettersson, Pastrnak, etc that would fit around Hertl, Meier, Couture and Kane would go a long way to stabilizing the team.

That won’t make a difference without fixing the goaltending, but I think that goes without saying. The rest of the roster doesn’t matter with how Jones has played, and Dell doesn’t seem like he’s equipped to carry an average roster either.

After the Oilers went to the Cup finals, we were convinced we were 1 piece away from rejoining the dance.

We tried to build our forward group around Horcoff - Penner - Smyth - Hemsky - Stoll (at various iterations)
Our defense was built around Souray, Visnovsky, Gilbert.

It wasn't a terrible group of players.

And as scathing as this might sound, that Oilers team was about as talented as the roster you guys have right now.

2009 Oilers:
Edmonton Oilers 2008-09 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com
2020 Sharks:
San Jose Sharks 2019-20 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The Oilers management kept believing we were just 1 piece away from making the dance.
We tried to trade for Dany Heatley.
We tried signing Marion Hossa.

Unless there's some kind of miracle, or a massive 8 player trade resulting in a fleecing of the ages.
I get a feeling you guys are likely in for a world for hurt. Just like we were.


I hope our teams meet in the playoffs before 2030.

 

[bert]

Until he breaks into the NHL, I'm not caring about the pumping of a prospect's tires. Balcers is tearing up the AHL too and hasn't been able to prove himself at the NHL level. Until they do, prospect heists don't mean anything. You got a solid 2C in Tierney and a solid #4 in DeMelo that's going to get rented for a 2nd and maybe something else. The rest is still wait and see.

Tierney to me as a sens fan has been the least impressive asset the team has retained thus far. Id be very happy if they moved on from him he is one of the most vanilla hockey players I have ever seen, soft never engaged. Just there, granted he is usually in the right position but that is where it ends. If you want him back he is certainly available. If the sens can extract a 2nd round pick for him I hope he is on his way out.

 

[Section32]

the ink wasn't even dry on the Karlsson contract and it was visibly a bad idea

"we have 1 Burns, let's have more Burns'"

The Sharks are currently somewhat similar to the pre-lockout Rangers, with some very dubious moves and player management.

However, it does show you that they do want to win, and are willing to push it in order to do so. Can't knock them for trying.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Tierney to me as a sens fan has been the least impressive asset the team has retained thus far. Id be very happy if they moved on from him he is one of the most vanilla hockey players I have ever seen, soft never engaged. Just there, granted he is usually in the right position but that is where it ends. If you want him back he is certainly available. If the sens can extract a 2nd round pick for him I hope he is on his way out.

I'm sure some team would pay that price for him. I don't think the Sharks are in a position to do that at this point in time. But if you get a 2nd for Tierney and a 2nd for DeMelo then you get two prospects, a 1st, and three 2nd round picks out of Karlsson. That's not bad if you hit on the picks and Balcers and Norris figure out their games to the NHL level.

 

[bert]

I'm sure some team would pay that price for him. I don't think the Sharks are in a position to do that at this point in time. But if you get a 2nd for Tierney and a 2nd for DeMelo then you get two prospects, a 1st, and three 2nd round picks out of Karlsson. That's not bad if you hit on the picks and Balcers and Norris figure out their games to the NHL level.

Agreed the trade is looking far more unexpectedly positive than the original outlook. Like you said before prospects are just prospects until they prove something at the NHL level. The thing that has turned the trade in my mind is San Jose's shocking fall from grace this year pretty much guaranteeing the sens a solid NHL player with the pick. I honestly still cant believe it, Vegas evan had their over under at 97.5 points very rare that any team falls this much from Vegas's predictions without something drastic like crazy injuries. I feel bad for you guys tbh, we had to live through this last year, its aweful. Not having your first while being a bad team is probably the worst case scenario for any fan, I wouldnt wish it upon anyone.

I know its hard to believe but Demelo has been really solid. Every one who plays with him plays at their absolute peak, I hope they re-sign him as he is a very stable influence on a young inexperienced blue line. A 4 year deal at 14 million would be something id do and gives him some great security for a guy that wasnt even qualified two seasons ago.

I am skeptical about Balcers being an NHL regular, he is a smart player but not very hard on pucks. He has skill, but he isnt big or fast enough to beat defenders physically, I hope he works out but I dont expect it at this point. Seems like the perfect AHL scorer that cant take the next step because for him to be effective he has to be in your top 6.

Norris on the other hand has been very very good in Belleville suprisingly so, he drives the play, he is quick, intelligent and able to get to open areas with and without the puck. He looks like he could be a very solid 2nd line center one day.

I personally believe San Jose's issue might be locker room chemistry there is way too much talent for these results. I think Kane on his own is fine on a team, Karlsson on his own too, but the two of them together might be disrupting a room that was run by real hockey guys (Couture, Thornton, Vlasic, Burns Pavelski). Thats my theory for the Sharks issues, but I am sure you know better than I do.

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

I disagree with that simply because if they felt like he belonged, they wouldn't have him in the AHL. The best thing for anyone's development, especially those that supposedly belong in the NHL, is to play against NHL competition to get better. Balcers has to score at a clip that overrides his lack of defensive ability and that's hard to do in the NHL. He's not there as of yet.

You do realize theres a limit on how many people can be up in the NHL right? Ottawa has a lot of prospects right now that could be playing in the NHL, but it simply is a numbers game sometimes and it’s much better for our prospects to be building good habits and winning in the AHL and then coming up later this season or next season once most if not all of the pending UFAs are traded/let go. Its not rocket appliances.

 

[NyQuil]

I disagree with that simply because if they felt like he belonged, they wouldn't have him in the AHL. The best thing for anyone's development, especially those that supposedly belong in the NHL, is to play against NHL competition to get better. Balcers has to score at a clip that overrides his lack of defensive ability and that's hard to do in the NHL. He's not there as of yet.

Not sure I agree with that in our case.

None of those AHL guys may pan out, granted, but with the way Ottawa is playing this year, the B-Sens offers a lot more positives for a player's development in terms of contributing to an actual winning roster playing competitive hockey with the young guys in leadership / top positions.

Belleville is succeeding on the shoulders of a core group of young guys who could easily make the Ottawa roster but are getting more icetime, more confidence and responsibility in the minors.

Unlike most of the other top AHL teams, their success is almost entirely on the basis of their prospects, and not veteran or journeyman AHLers.

In the back of Dorion's mind, I'm sure this year's draft opportunities also play a part in who is left down in Belleville. Leaf fans like to talk about their miraculous turnaround the year after they drafted Matthews, but they had deliberately kept a bunch of talent in the minors that year as well.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Agreed the trade is looking far more unexpectedly positive than the original outlook. Like you said before prospects are just prospects until they prove something at the NHL level. The thing that has turned the trade in my mind is San Jose's shocking fall from grace this year pretty much guaranteeing the sens a solid NHL player with the pick. I honestly still cant believe it, Vegas evan had their over under at 97.5 points very rare that any team falls this much from Vegas's predictions without something drastic like crazy injuries. I feel bad for you guys tbh, we had to live through this last year, its aweful. Not having your first while being a bad team is probably the worst case scenario for any fan, I wouldnt wish it upon anyone.

I know its hard to believe but Demelo has been really solid. Every one who plays with him plays at their absolute peak, I hope they re-sign him as he is a very stable influence on a young inexperienced blue line. A 4 year deal at 14 million would be something id do and gives him some great security for a guy that wasnt even qualified two seasons ago.

I am skeptical about Balcers being an NHL regular, he is a smart player but not very hard on pucks. He has skill, but he isnt big or fast enough to beat defenders physically, I hope he works out but I dont expect it at this point. Seems like the perfect AHL scorer that cant take the next step because for him to be effective he has to be in your top 6.

Norris on the other hand has been very very good in Belleville suprisingly so, he drives the play, he is quick, intelligent and able to get to open areas with and without the puck. He looks like he could be a very solid 2nd line center one day.

I personally believe San Jose's issue might be locker room chemistry there is way too much talent for these results. I think Kane on his own is fine on a team, Karlsson on his own too, but the two of them together might be disrupting a room that was run by real hockey guys (Couture, Thornton, Vlasic, Burns Pavelski). Thats my theory for the Sharks issues, but I am sure you know better than I do.

The Sharks' problem comes down to lack of depth up front. They need at least one and probably two top six forwards in order to fix their problems. They have had defensive inconsistencies but a lot of it was fixed when Boughner became coach and they started playing more conservatively. They still have hiccups but some of it is young players still figuring out parts of their game at this level and some of it is still just not enough talent up front to hold on to pucks in the attacking zone. They need a couple more 2nd line level wingers to push some players down the lineup that more suits their skill level. Figuring out how to do that is definitely going to be an issue but if they find two value bets at that 2nd line level, they can turn things around next season. Like Tampa is probably going to have to shed a player like that and someone like Killorn in San Jose would be a huge add for them.

You do realize theres a limit on how many people can be up in the NHL right? Ottawa has a lot of prospects right now that could be playing in the NHL, but it simply is a numbers game sometimes and it’s much better for our prospects to be building good habits and winning in the AHL and then coming up later this season or next season once most if not all of the pending UFAs are traded/let go. Its not rocket appliances.

There's a limit but Ottawa isn't loaded with wingers that a kid can't outplay to be in the lineup on a regular basis. Their 2nd and 3rd lines are spots that Balcers absolutely could get if he was playing well enough but he just wasn't. Maybe it changes next year but he needs to take a few steps overall to justify it. And Balcers is at that age especially for a player of his talents that this is when he needs to be in the NHL to get the most out of him.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Not sure I agree with that in our case.

None of those AHL guys may pan out, granted, but with the way Ottawa is playing this year, the B-Sens offers a lot more positives for a player's development in terms of contributing to an actual winning roster playing competitive hockey with the young guys in leadership / top positions.

Belleville is succeeding on the shoulders of a core group of young guys who could easily make the Ottawa roster but are getting more icetime, more confidence and responsibility in the minors.

Unlike most of the other top AHL teams, their success is almost entirely on the basis of their prospects, and not veteran or journeyman AHLers.

In the back of Dorion's mind, I'm sure this year's draft opportunities also play a part in who is left down in Belleville. Leaf fans like to talk about their miraculous turnaround the year after they drafted Matthews, but they had deliberately kept a bunch of talent in the minors that year as well.

I can see that for someone like Norris who is a first year pro but not Balcers. Balcers is older and has plenty of AHL experience at this point. When you're mostly an offensive winger, 22 is basically the start of your peak production years especially if you're more of a goal scorer like he is. And those players tend to have an early window that shuts earlier than most unless he figures out how to round out his game or shows himself to be an elite level player. If Balcers doesn't solidify an NHL spot next season, he's going to have a hard time ever doing it.

 

[NyQuil]

If Balcers doesn't solidify an NHL spot next season, he's going to have a hard time ever doing it.

I think that's fair.

This season really is an odd one for the Senators - with zero expectations, and fans actually demanding a low position in the standings, it's a pretty strange environment in which to get your NHL career going.

There isn't a lot of pressure, granted, but there are also a lot of losses. It's like having our expansion team all over again.

I expect there to be a fair amount of turnover next season. Anyway, didn't want to derail the thread too far off topic, so apologies for that.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think that's fair.

This season really is an odd one for the Senators - with zero expectations, and fans actually demanding a low position in the standings, it's a pretty strange environment in which to get your NHL career going.

There isn't a lot of pressure, granted, but there are also a lot of losses. It's like having our expansion team all over again.

I expect there to be a fair amount of turnover next season. Anyway, didn't want to derail the thread too far off topic, so apologies for that.

With so many expiring contracts, yeah I'd expect the same. Balcers will certainly have a lane to a spot next season with 5 forwards expiring into UFA that they likely won't retain. I still do like Balcers and I think he can succeed but this calendar year is make or break for him.

 

[405Exit]

We’re at 20 pages? Mods? We need a part 2? Just asking before trade deadline.

 

[AvsCOL]

What has Lebanc done in his career to earn a 1st round pick needed to acquire him?

He scored 56 points last year and he's 24. Is that a serious question?

 

[justafan22]

I wonder what teams would offer their 1st this season for Timo.