Confirmed with Link: Shane Churla leaves Habs to become Panthers director of amateur scouting

[Runner77]

Churla going to be missed. Our drafting improved when he came on board. We picked some good picks. Primeau, Romanov, Norlinder. Draft from 2008 to 2016 only pick of their caliber was Gallagher. In 3 drafts we got triple the return we did in previous 9 drafts.

If that was wholly on Churla, then they held on to the wrong guy.

* my thanks to @angusyoung for original idea

 

[Scintillating10]

If that was wholly on Churla, then they held on to the wrong guy.

* my thanks to @angusyoung for original idea

There was definitely an improvement during Churla's tenure here.

 

[salbutera]

Churla going to be missed. Our drafting improved when he came on board. We picked some good picks. Primeau, Romanov, Norlinder. Draft from 2008 to 2016 only pick of their caliber was Gallagher. In 3 drafts we got triple the return we did in previous 9 drafts.

Yet Churla joined the org prior to 2013 draft, and there’s squat to show till Sergachev in 2016? Some recency bias...

 

[montreal]

Before Churla joined the Habs I believe he was scouting out west. So one would assume he had a big hand in any picks from out west.

2013- his first draft with us, we ended up taking 4 from the Q so that would seem to be more on Timmins since we know that's his backyard. Ghetto wasn't a bad pick for where they got him, Reway could have been something imo if not for the heart issues, Fucale who is with the caps in the ECHL turned into a steaming pile for a top 36 pic and Gregoire was picked 176th OA.

our best player from that draft is Leks, so don't see Churla having much of an impact there as a guess.

2014- our 1st 3 picks are from out west. Scherbak, Lernout, Koberstein. A total washout though I think the Scherbak pick at the time made sense and whoever thought we should trade up for Lernout should have been fired. He wasn't even good in the AHL, granted he was a 73rd OA pick but what a dud of a pick.

our best player from that draft is Evans from the OJHL. Was Frank Jay still with us then? If so I know that was his area, not saying Timmins doesn't sign off on most or all the picks as I don't know of course and always wondered as there's got to be some picks he's never seen like say some rando 7th round pick etc..

2015- 2 of the top 3 picks are from out west. Juulsen and Matt Bradley. Nothing really wrong there as after Scherbak they likely wanted to play it safe imo which makes sense. If not for injuries I bet Juulsen would have been the 3rd RD and been solid enough. Bradley was picked 131st OA so no biggee that he so far has been nothing more then a ECHLer. What really stings and this is more on MB is that it's looking like one of the best drafts since '03, i know he's not a fan of moving up and going from 26th to say 16th (Barzal - WHL) would likely have cost a ton and who knows if any teams would even move down that far in that range.

our best pick from the draft is still Juulsen since there's almost nothing left.

2016- was the year of the OHL, 4 of the 6 picks were from the OHL but only 1 top 60 pick stings.

our best pick from the draft is Sergachev by a ton.

2017- was the year of the WHL again, 4 of our first 6 picks were from out west. So far 2 are out of the organization, and the other 2 have struggled at the pro level but it's still very early and could easily end up solid NHLers with the tools they have or not we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[salbutera]

One thing I’ve come to observe over time amateur scouting seems to be heavily weighted on connections driven by recency bias. What do I mean by that?

Al Murray (TBay scouting dir) who I hold in high regard BTW, hasn’t really done much in the last 5-years at the draft table, it was when he first came on board starting w 2011 draft, and leveraged his Hockey Canada connections & data banks - yielding Point & Cirelli.

Over time there’s been changes at Hockey Canada his connections have diminished as have his data banks of prospects across the country, and TBays drafting has reverted to the norm. Murray was following Point from by the time he was 15 playing in Sherwood Park...

This scenario keeps repeating itself, I can’t recall one org since the 2005 lockout that has excelled at the draft table consistently for 5+ years with the same scouting team.

It almost leads me to believe the best approach to amateur scouting is to overhaul scouting staffs every 5-7 years bringing in talent with deep connections leveraging recency bias on prospect knowledge.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

One thing I’ve come to observe over time amateur scouting seems to be heavily weighted on connections driven by recency bias. What do I mean by that?

Al Murray (TBay scouting dir) who I hold in high regard BTW, hasn’t really done much in the last 5-years at the draft table, it was when he first came on board starting w 2011 draft, and leveraged his Hockey Canada connections & data banks - yielding Point & Cirelli.

Over time there’s been changes at Hockey Canada his connections have diminished as have his data banks of prospects across the country, and TBays drafting has reverted to the norm. Murray was following Point from by the time he was 15 playing in Sherwood Park...

This scenario keeps repeating itself, I can’t recall one org since the 2005 lockout that has excelled at the draft table consistently for 5+ years with the same scouting team.

It almost leads me to believe the best approach to amateur scouting is to overhaul scouting staffs every 5-7 years bringing in talent with deep connections leveraging recency bias on prospect knowledge.

It's an interesting idea. Anaheim, Washington and St. Louis are teams that have been pretty consistent over the years and I don't think they've made changes on their scouting staff.

 

[Wats]

It's an interesting idea. Anaheim, Washington and St. Louis are teams that have been pretty consistent over the years and I don't think they've made changes on their scouting staff.

Winnipeg and Philadelphia have a ridiculous high hit rate on their 1sr rounders. Flyers picked Patrick but injuries detailed his career, he could still become good. Would be interesting if they can poach some of their people

 

[Scintillating10]

Yet Churla joined the org prior to 2013 draft, and there’s squat to show till Sergachev in 2016? Some recency bias...

Churla only been director of scouting for 4 years. Before that he was our western scout. Having little say who we took.

 

[Wats]

Churla only been director of scouting for 4 years. Before that he was our western scout. Having little say who we took.

How does someone who has little say get made director...

 

[montreal]

Churla only been director of scouting for 4 years. Before that he was our western scout. Having little say who we took.

look a few posts up, i covered that and for those years we had several picks from out west yet Juulsen is the only decent of the group.

 

[Whitesnake]

I don't think it's fair to say that he was in charge of the Western scouting while he was ''director''. He wasn't. He was flying all around from Europe to wherever to give his opinion on players.

One thing is sure....this freakin organization needs more scouts. Today, there is no western scout. Only 1 Ontario scout. So much US oriented, it's stupid.

 

[covfefe]

One thing I’ve come to observe over time amateur scouting seems to be heavily weighted on connections driven by recency bias. What do I mean by that?

Al Murray (TBay scouting dir) who I hold in high regard BTW, hasn’t really done much in the last 5-years at the draft table, it was when he first came on board starting w 2011 draft, and leveraged his Hockey Canada connections & data banks - yielding Point & Cirelli.

Over time there’s been changes at Hockey Canada his connections have diminished as have his data banks of prospects across the country, and TBays drafting has reverted to the norm. Murray was following Point from by the time he was 15 playing in Sherwood Park...

This scenario keeps repeating itself, I can’t recall one org since the 2005 lockout that has excelled at the draft table consistently for 5+ years with the same scouting team.

It almost leads me to believe the best approach to amateur scouting is to overhaul scouting staffs every 5-7 years bringing in talent with deep connections leveraging recency bias on prospect knowledge.

I agree with the general sentiment of your post but have an admittedly minor point to make:

- Point is from Calgary and that's where he played minor hockey, while Sherwood Park is a suburb of Edmonton. I only mention that because I used to live there and would've caught wind of him at that...point.

A buddy of mine has a great opener at the ready any time he meets another random person from Sherwood Park:

"I used to live there (too/as well/for x years)!"

"On purpose?"

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I don't think it's fair to say that he was in charge of the Western scouting while he was ''director''. He wasn't. He was flying all around from Europe to wherever to give his opinion on players.

One thing is sure....this freakin organization needs more scouts. Today, there is no western scout. Only 1 Ontario scout. So much US oriented, it's stupid.

TT and to some extent Bergevin are the ones that are ''in charge'' ultimately. There's been very little delegation in our scouting department for several years now, TT has the final say on everything, no matter what his actual title has been.

 

[Whitesnake]

TT and to some extent Bergevin are the ones that are ''in charge'' ultimately. There's been very little delegation in our scouting department for several years now, TT has the final say on everything, no matter what his actual title has been.

Which, if you look at my past statements including the ones in the last 2 or 3 pages, is something I kept saying and being proven time and time again. Starts and ends with Timmins. With a Bergevin philosophy.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Which, if you look at my past statements including the ones in the last 2 or 3 pages, is something I kept saying and being proven time and time again. Starts and ends with Timmins. With a Bergevin philosophy.

No wonder Churla looked elsewhere at some point, it must suck being a placeholder like that. The dude has to have some pride .

 

[Schooner Guy]

Interesting that folks think Churla was such a valuable asset. He was actually named Chief of Amateur Scouting before 2013-14 and a few years later was promoted to Director of Scouting when Timmins was named Assistant GM and still in charge of the draft.

There were rumblings when we took Koberstein and others from western Canada that Bergie was actually overruling Timmins on some picks that Churla pounded the table for. It wouldn't surprise me given the enormous level of cronyism that was taking place early in Bergie's tenure. If anything, our drafting seems to have improved after Molson decided that Bergie and the Habs needed to change course and retool, and that hot dogs were going to be better. We've since had a greater emphasis on drafting and developing (kicking Lefebvre to the curb was a huge step) and Timmins seems to have found his stride.

 

[Runner77]

I don't think it's fair to say that he was in charge of the Western scouting while he was ''director''. He wasn't. He was flying all around from Europe to wherever to give his opinion on players.

One thing is sure....this freakin organization needs more scouts. Today, there is no western scout. Only 1 Ontario scout. So much US oriented, it's stupid.

Would the org. prioritizing US players not be premised on the ability to hold on to those players longer?

 

[Scintillating10]

Something definitely changed when Churla started leading the draft. Our drafting drastically improved. From 2017 onward it was Norlinder. Romanov, Primeau. We got next to nothing from 2008 to 2016.

look a few posts up, i covered that and for those years we had several picks from out west yet Juulsen is the only decent of the group.

 

[salbutera]

I agree with the general sentiment of your post but have an admittedly minor point to make:

- Point is from Calgary and that's where he played minor hockey, while Sherwood Park is a suburb of Edmonton. I only mention that because I used to live there and would've caught wind of him at that...point.

A buddy of mine has a great opener at the ready any time he meets another random person from Sherwood Park:

"I used to live there (too/as well/for x years)!"

"On purpose?"

Thank you for correcting, is it Gallagher who played minor hockey in Sherwood Park?

 

[Whitesnake]

Would the org. prioritizing US players not be premised on the ability to hold on to those players longer?

That I have no doubt. Yet. the most brillant US players minus a few exceptions (like maybe Jordan Harris) will never use the 2 additional years we have compared to Junior players.

I'm just saying...if you want to keep all those US scouts, fine with me. But geez, you have to add more Canadian scouts as well. Also, if having too many picks is a problem....how about you put a package in order to trade 3 of your picks for a better one.

Building through the draft is not to pick 99, 125 and 207. It has to be packaging all these to pick 60. On top of selling to pick 1st rounders too.

 

[Whitesnake]

Something definitely changed when Churla started leading the draft. Our drafting drastically improved. From 2017 onward it was Norlinder. Romanov, Primeau. We got next to nothing from 2008 to 2016.

Nothing changed. We started to have more picks. Higher picks. In better drafts. You would have had Youppi as a scout it would have been the same thing as it's Timmins who has the final decision. Nobody will ever convince me that Timmins picks players he doesn' t like himself no matter who recommands it.

 

[Whitesnake]

No wonder Churla looked elsewhere at some point, it must suck being a placeholder like that. The dude has to have some pride .

Of course. No dout about that. I'm not the one who was regularly saying that Churla was the Director and had the job title to change something. He never did. And now that it came from Churla himself, maybe we'll realize it.

 

[Habs]

I don't think it's fair to say that he was in charge of the Western scouting while he was ''director''. He wasn't. He was flying all around from Europe to wherever to give his opinion on players.

One thing is sure....this freakin organization needs more scouts. Today, there is no western scout. Only 1 Ontario scout. So much US oriented, it's stupid.

Eric Crawford used to be our Western Scout, he's a total flop. They promoted him. That's how you get ahead on this team, fail hard for years, your promotion will be incoming.

 

[Runner77]

I don't think it's fair to say that he was in charge of the Western scouting while he was ''director''. He wasn't. He was flying all around from Europe to wherever to give his opinion on players.

One thing is sure....this freakin organization needs more scouts. Today, there is no western scout. Only 1 Ontario scout. So much US oriented, it's stupid.

More is not better but I'm sure you were merely pointing out one glaring aspect out of many.

Of course, you need a minimum number of scouts in order to ensure proper coverage.

You just need to look at who they hire and how much they value or critically assess a given candidate's track record.

We've seen a lot of blowback in here for the likes of Eric Crawford and Nick Carrière. We know there are great candidates that have been available but have ended up elsewhere. We also know the Habs have the wherewithal to attract the best.

There appears to be a serious gap between what the org. can do and what it is actually doing when it comes to its scouts.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

More is not better but I'm sure you were merely pointing out one glaring aspect out of many.

Of course, you need a minimum number of scouts in order to ensure proper coverage.

You just need to look at who they hire and how much they value or critically assess a given candidate's track record.

We've seen a lot of blowback in here for the likes of Eric Crawford and Nick Carrière. We know there are great candidates that have been available but have ended up elsewhere. We also know the Habs have the wherewithal to attract the best.

There appears to be a serious gap between what the org. can do and what it is actually doing when it comes to its scouts.

Bergevin put an end to the speculation when he admitted "they're never available"