Confirmed with Link: Shane Churla leaves Habs to become Panthers director of amateur scouting

Runner77

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If the season gets cancelled, it’s going to be a hockey ops blood bath league wide...

Best time for the org. to hire top tier scouting talents that would normally be too difficult for Bergevin to land.

Habs are cash rich. Canceling the season would give them a unique opportunity to overhaul their scouting talent.

Doubt that happens though because Bergevin.
 

dackelljuneaubulis02

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Oct 13, 2012
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I don't want to go through this whole thread but when did he take over again?

If it was in time for the 2017 draft, I might be a bit worried in letting him go. Still early but I do feel like the drafting has turned around since then. Maybe even with the Sergachev pick in 2016. Lets hope we can get a high end replacement
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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Apr 29, 2018
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To people happy at his departure: are you really that unhappy with our drafting 2017-2020?

Top early to tell, but from 2017 we got

Ryan Poehling - looked really promising, exploded into the NHL and now if he becomes a 4th line centre I'll take it.

Josh Brook - decent dman prospect. Could be a number 4, could be a bust.

Joni Ikonen - does well when he isn't hurt, but always hurt it seems.

Scott Walford - didnt get a contract.

Fleury - looks like he can be a capable bottom pairing dman.

Tyszka - already out.

Primeau - might be a primo of a pick.

In short, all of the players have a chance to improve, but aside from Primeau most wouldn't give a f*** if we just traded any of them away for free.
 

Treb

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Top early to tell, but from 2017 we got

Ryan Poehling - looked really promising, exploded into the NHL and now if he becomes a 4th line centre I'll take it.

Josh Brook - decent dman prospect. Could be a number 4, could be a bust.

Joni Ikonen - does well when he isn't hurt, but always hurt it seems.

Scott Walford - didnt get a contract.

Fleury - looks like he can be a capable bottom pairing dman.

Tyszka - already out.

Primeau - might be a primo of a pick.

In short, all of the players have a chance to improve, but aside from Primeau most wouldn't give a f*** if we just traded any of them away for free.

I'm confused at what you expect out of a draft. If Fleury and Brook become top6 D, Poehling becomes a bottom 6 forward and Primeau becomes a 1B, I would consider this a great haul. Anything more would make it an awesome draft.

2007 draft-like year do not happen often for any team. Teams usually get 1-3 NHLer in a draft.
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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I'm confused at what you expect out of a draft. If Fleury and Brook become top6 D, Poehling becomes a bottom 6 forward and Primeau becomes a 1B, I would consider this a great haul. Anything more would make it an awesome draft.

2007 draft-like year do not happen often for any team. Teams usually get 1-3 NHLer in a draft.

That's absolute best case scenario at this point, which would turn it into a solid draft.

2 years from now, Primeau is probably the only one in the NHL as a backup.

Go back to the start of the 16-17 and imagine how exciting the future looked with the 14,15 and 16 draft groups.

Now we have Drouin and Mete ?
 

Treb

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That's absolute best case scenario at this point, which would turn it into a solid draft.

2 years from now, Primeau is probably the only one in the NHL as a backup.

Go back to the start of the 16-17 and imagine how exciting the future looked with the 14,15 and 16 draft groups.

Now we have Drouin and Mete ?

I would be very surprised if all of Fleury, Brook and Poehling are all out of the NHL within 2 years. Fleury already played more NHL games than all but 3 draftees from 14/15/16.

You are mixing trades and drafting. We got Evans, Sergachev and Mete from 14/15/16 with Juulsen still being a possibility if he stays healthy. I also still believe Vejdemo could be a depth player. It's also important to note that in those years, we drafted 9/26/26 in the first round and had 0 2nd round pick. Most teams get their NHLer from the top 62 and we only had 3 picks there in 3 years.
 

salbutera

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Best time for the org. to hire top tier scouting talents that would normally be too difficult for Bergevin to land.

Habs are cash rich. Canceling the season would give them a unique opportunity to overhaul their scouting talent.

Doubt that happens though because Bergevin.
A business can only be ca$h rich if revenue is coming in...this was the quietest offseason for the NYR in at least 25-years, and even they are quietly letting scouts & training staff “pursue other opportunities”.

It’s got nothing to do with MB or any GM, the owners are front & center in running the orgs right now. Don’t forget the consortium is leveraged with not only the hockey team but all the construction...and many of those no vacant office spaces & condos will be empty fairly soon as companies downsize/go belly up & more people lose jobs...if not already.
 

Runner77

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A business can only be ca$h rich if revenue is coming in...this was the quietest offseason for the NYR in at least 25-years, and even they are quietly letting scouts & training staff “pursue other opportunities”.

It’s got nothing to do with MB or any GM, the owners are front & center in running the orgs right now. Don’t forget the consortium is leveraged with not only the hockey team but all the construction...and many of those no vacant office spaces & condos will be empty fairly soon as companies downsize/go belly up & more people lose jobs...if not already.

True but there would be turnover. Some contracts that expire would not be renewed. If an overhaul is not possible, then at least add a couple of top tier candidates that would otherwise not be available.

Bergevin’s approach has limited the hiring of certain quality candidates since he has mostly favored friends and acquaintances. This was the general point that I was making. Obviously, we have a different financial imperative at the moment but by the same token, it can also beget opportunities that would not otherwise be there.
 
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26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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I get the impression that as long as Timmins will be there, the 'Director of Amateur Scouting' will be a puppet role.

Yes, Timmins is the head scout. His title of assistant GM was to also include him in decision making in other areas.
 

Scintillating10

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Jun 15, 2012
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Top early to tell, but from 2017 we got

Ryan Poehling - looked really promising, exploded into the NHL and now if he becomes a 4th line centre I'll take it.

Josh Brook - decent dman prospect. Could be a number 4, could be a bust.

Joni Ikonen - does well when he isn't hurt, but always hurt it seems.

Scott Walford - didnt get a contract.

Fleury - looks like he can be a capable bottom pairing dman.

Tyszka - already out.

Primeau - might be a primo of a pick.

In short, all of the players have a chance to improve, but aside from Primeau most wouldn't give a f*** if we just traded any of them away for free.
We didn't draft until 25th that year thou. To get a starting goalie, bottom 6 center and a bottom pairing out of it is solid.
 

Archijerej

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His hiring coincided with our drafting improving (as many claim. I'm not convinced). For several seasons before that, it was demonstrably abysmal.
 

Redux91

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Sep 5, 2006
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His hiring coincided with our drafting improving (as many claim. I'm not convinced). For several seasons before that, it was demonstrably abysmal.

I get spotting a sort of correlation there
But at the same time, you can be the greatest scout of all time and it would STILL depend on wherever your professional sports organization landed in their drafts positioning
 

Runner77

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I get spotting a sort of correlation there
But at the same time, you can be the greatest scout of all time and it would STILL depend on wherever your professional sports organization landed in their drafts positioning

Correlation is not always causality. However, it's not just draft positioning but what a team makes with it, how much input your scouting staff at any given time and the judgment of the ultimate deciders. There's a reason that quality picks still occur at late junctures for some teams -- some of it may be luck but maybe luck comes to the prepared -- competence is usually rewarded in the grand scheme.
 
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Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
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I get the impression that as long as Timmins will be there, the 'Director of Amateur Scouting' will be a puppet role.

As I keep saying for a gazillion years. Maybe, what that job really is, is to be able to gather infos from all the scouts. Scouts might have gone to Churla first, and he gave the infos to Timmins after. Seems to me that the director of amateur scouting is actually the secretary to Timmins....BUt he also had a view on things and was also scouting. At best, you could envision that Churla was deciding who stays and who goes as far as the scouts are concerned. Yet..nobody will make me believe that Timmins didn't have the final say.
 
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Kriss E

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As I keep saying for a gazillion years. Maybe, what that job really is, is to be able to gather infos from all the scouts. Scouts might have gone to Churla first, and he gave the infos to Timmins after. Seems to me that the director of amateur scouting is actually the secretary to Timmins....BUt he also had a view on things and was also scouting. At best, you could envision that Churla was deciding who stays and who goes as far as the scouts are concerned. Yet..nobody will make me believe that Timmins didn't have the final say.

I just view it like any other organizational structure.
Bergevin is the President of Drafting. Timmins is the VP. Churla was Director.

As the director, he will manage, hire, and oversee his team of scouts, give them direction that fall in line with the company's vision, gather all necessary information and report back to VP.
Timmins, as VP, will then report back to President with his own recommendations.
Bergey, will give the go ahead or opt to change plans.
 

SOLR

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Jun 4, 2006
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I just view it like any other organizational structure.
Bergevin is the President of Drafting. Timmins is the VP. Churla was Director.

As the director, he will manage, hire, and oversee his team of scouts, give them direction that fall in line with the company's vision, gather all necessary information and report back to VP.
Timmins, as VP, will then report back to President with his own recommendations.
Bergey, will give the go ahead or opt to change plans.

I forgot, is the manager of pro scouting under Timmins as well?
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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Jeddah
I forgot, is the manager of pro scouting under Timmins as well?
Timmins is an assistant GM, and given his extensive background in drafting, I assume a big part of his role is still related to that. Mellanby is also an assistant and his experience stems from pro scouting, so I he is probably the one overseeing that aspect.
 
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Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
89,202
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I just view it like any other organizational structure.
Bergevin is the President of Drafting. Timmins is the VP. Churla was Director.

As the director, he will manage, hire, and oversee his team of scouts, give them direction that fall in line with the company's vision, gather all necessary information and report back to VP.
Timmins, as VP, will then report back to President with his own recommendations.
Bergey, will give the go ahead or opt to change plans.

If Churla would have had all that, he would have been the one running the show inside and out. He was not. There are NO other VP's in the league who announces the picks and are seated beside the GM at the draft table.
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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Jeddah
If Churla would have had all that, he would have been the one running the show inside and out. He was not. There are NO other VP's in the league who announces the picks and are seated beside the GM at the draft table.
If he is running the show inside out then it doesn't any sense to have a director below.
The directors, by definition, direct. They focus on the details and direct.
 

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