TSN Radio Shanahan: No More Legends until current + future shows they are worthy

[Jack Bauer]

You most likely don't know who those two players are.
Both were tough enforcers similar to Clark
Both were playing in the same era as Clark
and both had better careers than Clark.

Argument wasn't weak or flawed.

Clark had 1 good season and two good playoff runs due to Doug Gilmour.
No Gilmour. No Playoffs.
Clark was often injured and wasn't a major contributor to the team since 1987.
Gilmour got Clark noticed.

The all time fan favourite is due to romanticism.
It's insane without a doubt


You just don't know

I most likely don't know who they are?

I watched all 3 play. Including as Maple Leafs. Anyone with the ability to use google and look at their careers will tell you that Clark was better. Better overall peak. Better overall career and hockey people will tell you better overall reputation.

But apparently anyone who dares question your stupid statement must have been born within the last 20 years and never have seen the 3 play. The arrogance and stupidity are equally as laughable from your posts. At least use ONE stat to prove your statement. ONE opinion from someone not yourself. SOMETHING that would give your argument some merit.

Clark outscored both and played in considerably less games. He was the better player overall and for our organization there's absolutely no doubting who was better and who was more important.

 

[Craig Button]

In what world was Derek King an "enforcer"? Wendy had more penalty minutes in 3 years than King had in his entire career.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2723

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=1018

You're going by penalty minutes.

My God.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Disprove it.

Clark was a <40 point producer and often injured.
Didn't contribute much to the Team until he was placed with Doug Gilmour.

Shayne Corson and Derek King are players similar to Wendel Clark and both have had better careers.

Somehow in crazy Leaf Land he's
Brendan Shanahan or Rick Tocchet

Oh God please don't tell me Clark is better than those two

793GP 330G 564PTS .71ppg
830GP 261G 612PTS .73ppg
1156GP 273G 693PTS .59ppg

So Clark played in less games but scored considerably more goals and had a higher ppg then Corson and was right there with King.

Less games. More goals. Playing hockey. Yep, not that tough of a call here.

Wendel Clark was better then Derek King and Shayne Corson. As Maple Leafs and as professional hockey players over their individual careers.

 

[ACC1224]

Disprove it.

Clark was a <40 point producer and often injured.
Didn't contribute much to the Team until he was placed with Doug Gilmour.

Shayne Corson and Derek King are players similar to Wendel Clark and both have had better careers.

Somehow in crazy Leaf Land he's
Brendan Shanahan or Rick Tocchet

Oh God please don't tell me Clark is better than those two

disprove what? you haven't proven anything.

 

[ACC1224]

You're going by penalty minutes.

My God.

Tough to be an enforcer without taking penalties.
Is there something else he was enforcing?

I think it's pretty clear you don't really know who these players were. Do you have a dad or older brother you could ask?

 

[Leaf_Crazy]

Not saying he should be a legend but Tomáš Kaberle is grossly underrated.

Had a .6 PPG in the dead puck era.
11th all time on the Leafs point list.
8th all time in GP.
Played around the same amount of playoff games as Borje.

 

[Jack Bauer]

disprove what? you haven't proven anything.

Pointless to argue with someone calling the 2nd highest points per game of the 3 with a career average of .71 pts which equals out to 58 points per season as a sub 40 point producer.

Clark only managed to play in 1 full NHL season but had 7 seasons with more then 40 points. First in 85-86 and finally in 98-99.

Everyone agrees he was banged up a lot and that effected his overall stat totals.

But there's very little to even move forward with on this "out of left field" comparison to 2 similar yet slightly inferior players.

 

[ACC1224]

Pointless to argue with someone calling the 2nd highest points per game of the 3 with a career average of .71 pts which equals out to 58 points per season as a sub 40 point producer.

Clark only managed to play in 1 full NHL season but had 7 seasons with more then 40 points. First in 85-86 and finally in 98-99.

Everyone agrees he was banged up a lot and that effected his overall stat totals.

But there's very little to even move forward with on this "out of left field" comparison to 2 similar yet slightly inferior players.

It's bizarre for sure, I'm not even much of a Wendy fan, hated watching him float on the back check.

 

[Jack Bauer]

It's bizarre for sure, I'm not even much of a Wendy fan, hated watching him float on the back check.

I'm not either. I'll take Gilmour every time over Clark.

But the random comparisons scream agenda and when I took a look at the other 2, it really was a laughable comparison that has no basis, merit, and more importantly absolutely zero point in the discussion being had.

 

[Craig Button]

793GP 330G 564PTS .71ppg
830GP 261G 612PTS .73ppg
1156GP 273G 693PTS .59ppg

So Clark played in less games but scored considerably more goals and had a higher ppg then Corson and was right there with King.

Less games. More goals. Playing hockey. Yep, not that tough of a call here.

Wendel Clark was better then Derek King and Shayne Corson. As Maple Leafs and as professional hockey players over their individual careers.

I'm on my phone so I can't copy paste properly.

Derek King had a better peak and also ppg than Clark. Derek king wasn't crippled as often as Clark. Clark had 1 season with Gilmour where he achieved his 76 points. Never to achieve above 49 points again. Before that he was a less than 40 point producer since 1987.
He had a decent ppg because of short sample size due to injuries. Sounds a lot like Lupul There doesn't it. Short sample size due to injuries doesn't equal to a player playing the whole season. Not even close.
But yeah let's treat some player who consistently was injured and mostly produce less than. 40 points a season like a legend.
Yeah that's smart

 

[ACC1224]

I'm not either. I'll take Gilmour every time over Clark.

But the random comparisons scream agenda and when I took a look at the other 2, it really was a laughable comparison that has no basis, merit, and more importantly absolutely zero point in the discussion being had.

Certainly unique, still seems like a short bus discussion. I don't think I've ever heard any player ever being compared to Derek King.
Sorry now that I took the bait.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'm on my phone so I can't copy paste properly.

Derek King had a better peak and also ppg than Clark. Derek king wasn't crippled as often as Clark. Clark had 1 season with Gilmour where he achieved his 76 points. Never to achieve above 49 points again. Before that he was a less than 40 point producer since 1987.
He had a decent ppg because of short sample size due to injuries. Sounds a lot like Lupul There doesn't it. Short sample size due to injuries doesn't equal to a player playing the whole season. Not even close.
But yeah let's treat some player who consistently was injured and mostly produce less than. 40 points a season like a legend.
Yeah that's smart

Better peak?

King's Peak: 80GP 40G 78PTS
Clark's Peak: 64GP 46G 76PTS

How is 2 points in 16 more games considered a better peak?

King started 2 years later and played 37 more career games.

King had 2 more 40 point years then Clark. Not counted for Clark would be 1 season of 39.

King also didn't bring the other aspects of the sport that Clark did. The hitting, fighting, and protecting his teammates. Or, you know, the things that made him a legend in this city.

Derek King was only missing those aspects and he could have also have been as good as a Wendel Clark.

 

[Craig Button]

Tough to be an enforcer without taking penalties.
Is there something else he was enforcing?

I think it's pretty clear you don't really know who these players were. Do you have a dad or older brother you could ask?

I personally know all 3

 

[Jack Bauer]

I personally know all 3

...and so do we.

You seem to think you were the only hfboard poster alive for all of the 90's.

 

[egd27]

793GP 330G 564PTS .71ppg
830GP 261G 612PTS .73ppg
1156GP 273G 693PTS .59ppg

So Clark played in less games but scored considerably more goals and had a higher ppg then Corson and was right there with King.

Less games. More goals. Playing hockey. Yep, not that tough of a call here.

Wendel Clark was better then Derek King and Shayne Corson. As Maple Leafs and as professional hockey players over their individual careers.

Wow great.

I wonder how he stacks up against some actual legends of his era?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Wow great.

I wonder how he stacks up against some actual legends of his era?

He wouldn't stack up against any legend from his era. He played in the highest scoring era any of us will probably ever see.

But that's not the discussion or the secondary discussion, that's an entirely new and different discussion.

 

[ACC1224]

Wow great.

I wonder how he stacks up against some actual legends of his era?

It depends on the definition of legend.

 

[egd27]

It depends on the definition of legend.

Some of the top players on teams from the same era. (purely subjective on my part)

Some legends to their teams, some maybe not.......maybe 2 on that list I would take Clarke over.

Canadian Teams
MON – Mats Naslund
EDM – Wayne Gretzky
CAL – Joe Nieuwendyk
QUE – Peter Stastny
WIN – Dale Hawerchuk
VAN – Pavel Bure

Org 6
NYR – Mark Messier
CHI – Denis Savard
BOS – Cam Neely
DET – Steve Yzerman


67 Expansion Teams
PHI - Rick Tocchet
LAK – Luc Robitaille
STL – Bernie Federko
PIT – Mario Lemieux
MIN – Dino Ciccerali

 

[ACC1224]

Some of the top players on teams from the same era. (purely subjective on my part)

Some legends to their teams, some maybe not.......maybe 2 on that list I would take Clarke over.

Canadian Teams
MON – Mats Naslund
EDM – Wayne Gretzky
CAL – Joe Nieuwendyk
QUE – Peter Stastny
WIN – Dale Hawerchuk
VAN – Pavel Bure

Org 6
NYR – Mark Messier
CHI – Denis Savard
BOS – Cam Neely
DET – Steve Yzerman


67 Expansion Teams
PHI - Rick Tocchet
LAK – Luc Robitaille
STL – Bernie Federko
PIT – Mario Lemieux
MIN – Dino Ciccerali

Agreed. Where do you rank Derek King on that list?

 

[Leaf Lander]

Babe Dye, Harry Cameron, Joe Primeau,
King Clancy, Busher Jackson,
Red horner, Hap Day,Sweeney Schriner,
Gordie Drillon, Wally Stanowski,
Joe Klukay, Harry Watson, Bill Barilko

Jimmy Thomson, Tod Sloan, Allan Stanley, Carl Brewer,
Bobby Baun, Dick Duff, Norm Ullman, Ron Ellis, , Bob Pulford, Lanny McDonald, Rick Vaive, Dougie Gilmour, Gary Roberts,

Todd GILL- Al Iafrate-Jamie Macouan Dave Ellett,Dmitry Yuskievich Thomas Kaberle Bryan Maccabe

Here pick 12 out of these guys

My next 12 and beyond would be

Primeau- Jackson -Vaive
Drillon- Klukay -Watson
Schriner- Gilmour -Sloan
Duff -Ullman -Ellis
Macdonald-Pulford-Roberts
Meeker -Metz -Eznicki
Bentley -bailey- stewart
Davidson-Thomas-tucker
Dye Cameron Smith

Horner -Day
Baun-Barilko
Thomson Stanley
Brewer -Stanowski
Clancy-Day
Macouan -Ellett
Kaberle -McCabe
Yuskievich Gill
Mortson-Turnbull

Today's players can try and achieve a place on legends row but surely more leafs can be included. The leafs were 2 way forwards who played a complete game in all ends of the ice. There stats weren't flashy but the cups they won for the Blue and white still have some shine left if you ask me.

Learn our history shannny

 

[HellasLEAF]

Re: Clark

They don't all have to be premier scorers. It's an entire row full of Leafs. It's ok to leave one spot open for a different breed of player- one for the toughest hitter and fighter of them all, and still had great hockey skills. Even moreso as this type of player doesn't much exist in the NHL anymore.

Absolutely.

This game, especially in that era moreso than now, is also about physical play. It's not just goals and pretty passes. That is just not going to show up properly on a stat sheet (unless we are talking hits and pims).

Clarke was generational in that regard, considering his goal scoring prowess and longevity with the club.

Legends Row is for special players. It's not a count down for great leafs, we have retired jerseys for that. Clarke was special.

 

[Morbo]

Not saying he should be a legend but Tomáš Kaberle is grossly underrated.

boy could we use him right about now on this powderkeg rook squad...Tommy K had icewater for blood.

 

[Leaf_Crazy]

boy could we use him right about now on this powderkeg rook squad...Tommy K had icewater for blood.

It's so werid to me how hes never talked about. Lesser players like Tucker are talked about far more frequently.