TSN Radio Shanahan: No More Legends until current + future shows they are worthy

[Craig Button]

Gilmour should be there.

The Leafs organization was in shambles before Gilmour.

Without Gilmour, Clark would have been a bust.
No 92-93 playoffs No 93-94 Playoffs.
Clark would have remained a <40 point producer.
as he was from 1987-1993.

Clark was a tough Joffrey Lupul nothing more.
This romanticization of his Career has turned Clark into a god of Greek Mythology.

Without Gilmour, Quebec wouldn't have been dumb enough to trade Sundin for Clark.

 

[rojac]

Gilmour should be there.

The Leafs organization was in shambles before Gilmour.

Without Gilmour, Clark would have been a bust.
No 92-93 playoffs No 93-94 Playoffs.
Clark would have remained a <40 point producer.
as he was from 1987-1993.

Clark was a tough Joffrey Lupul nothing more.
This romanticization of his Career has turned Clark into a god of Greek Mythology.

Without Gilmour, Quebec wouldn't have been dumb enough to trade Sundin for Clark.

Clark was a fan favourite long before the Leafs acquired Gilmour.

 

[Craig Button]

Clark was a fan favourite long before the Leafs acquired Gilmour.

Fan favourite a great hockey player does not make.

lol@ my attempt at yodaism.

also, it doesn't disprove anything i said

 

[ACC1224]

Fan favourite a great hockey player does not make.

lol@ my attempt at yodaism.

also, it doesn't disprove anything i said

He wasn't given a statue for his hockey ability.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Re: Clark

They don't all have to be premier scorers. It's an entire row full of Leafs. It's ok to leave one spot open for a different breed of player- one for the toughest hitter and fighter of them all, and still had great hockey skills. Even moreso as this type of player doesn't much exist in the NHL anymore.

 

[Craig Button]

lol

We are talking about Wendel Clark. A hockey player who isn't better than a Derek King or a Shayne Corson.
(imagine the Habs giving that guy a statue, absolutely hilarious)
Would have been forgotten like a Craig "what's his name" Simpson if not for Gilmour.

Let's not kid ourselves here.

 

[ACC1224]

lol

We are talking about Wendel Clark. A hockey player who isn't better than a Derek King or a Shayne Corson.
(imagine the Habs giving that guy a statue, absolutely hilarious)
Would have been forgotten like a Craig "what's his name" Simpson if not for Gilmour.

Let's not kid ourselves here.

wow

 

[Craig Button]

wow

I know! That's what I'm saying.
It's incredible

 

[ACC1224]

I know! That's what I'm saying.
It's incredible

Incredible is certainly a way to describe it.

 

[colchar]

Thank you!

I guess I'm a tad gobsmacked too but I can understand why. He only totaled 6 years out of his 20 here with us. They were damn good years but maybe that's the reason?

Red Kelly only played eight of his twenty-one years here.

I am surprised Ron Ellis wasn't included - 1034 games (his entire career) and 640 points as a Leaf.

 

[colchar]

lol

We are talking about Wendel Clark. A hockey player who isn't better than a Derek King or a Shayne Corson.
(imagine the Habs giving that guy a statue, absolutely hilarious)
Would have been forgotten like a Craig "what's his name" Simpson if not for Gilmour.

Let's not kid ourselves here.

 

[colchar]

We only got Gilmour because Calgary was dumping him for off ice issues. Google "gilmour babysitter".

Since when has an unsubstantiated allegation, on which a grand jury refused to even indict him, been on off ice issue?

 

[colchar]

I think there shouldn't be anybody there who didn't win a championship. It's "legends" row, not "Really Good And/Or Star Players Who We Enjoyed Watching Row".

Winning a Cup isn't a requirement for being a legend. Bourque is a Boston legend despite never having won a Cup there.

I guess you could argue Sundin and/or Sittler on the basis of franchise scoring leads, but that's it.

So Salming doesn't deserve to be there?

 

[Craig Button]

face palm yourself all you want.
But Derek King and Shayne Corson were better than Wendel Clark.

My argument is really that Gilmour belongs on Legends Row.

No Gilmour then No Clark-Sundin Trade. Without Sundin there's no Quinn and Joseph.

You think that last few season were bad.
Imagine it from 1982-2016. (Sittler to Matthews)
That's the Leafs reality without Gilmour

 

[Jack Bauer]

face palm yourself all you want.
But Derek King and Shayne Corson were better than Wendel Clark.

My argument is really that Gilmour belongs on Legends Row.

No Gilmour then No Clark-Sundin Trade. Without Sundin there's no Quinn and Joseph.

You think that last few season were bad.
Imagine it from 1982-2016. (Sittler to Matthews)
That's the Leafs reality without Gilmour

What logic do you use to declare those 2 as better then Clark? The fact that you seem intent on saying it over and over doesn't make it true. Just looking at their stats shows Clark to have had a better prime and considerably more value to his teams based on trade value.

And why would what say a Corson did in Montreal weigh in on this topic at all? Your argument is weak, or highly flawed, as it is.....if you actually try and break it down it's even worse. 2 guys that played 2-3 years here are more highly thought of then an all time fan favorite? Do you even understand this market at all?

 

[ACC1224]

face palm yourself all you want.
But Derek King and Shayne Corson were better than Wendel Clark.

My argument is really that Gilmour belongs on Legends Row.

No Gilmour then No Clark-Sundin Trade. Without Sundin there's no Quinn and Joseph.

You think that last few season were bad.
Imagine it from 1982-2016. (Sittler to Matthews)
That's the Leafs reality without Gilmour

Make an argument for Gilmour then. Clark vs Derek King sounds like a short bus discussion.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Make an argument for Gilmour then. Clark vs Derek King sounds like a short bus discussion.

Personally I view Clark and Gilmour as pretty comparable.

What Gilmour had in pure talent and better numbers Clark had in years of service and intangibles.

Gilmour was a guy the other coach planned around. Clark was the guy nobody on the other team wanted to go into a corner with. Clark was a tough guy who could not only fight with the best of that bunch but could outscore all of them. Gilmour was an elite 2 way center.

They both deserve to be there. Over time I predict Gilmour gets his place there.

 

[saltming]

Red Kelly only played eight of his twenty-one years here.

I am surprised Ron Ellis wasn't included - 1034 games (his entire career) and 640 points as a Leaf.

There are several head scratchers for sure. For Kelly, maybe because he finished his career as a leafs? And there is also 4 stanley cups with us.

 

[gtforepro]

Gilmour deserves to be on it more than Clark. He is the most iconic player of that era. Clark has more involvement though in alumni relations type stuff. Either way, I think its a ridiculous oversight.

Nope.

 

[Craig Button]

Incredible is certainly a way to describe it.

Accurate is another

 

[ACC1224]

Personally I view Clark and Gilmour as pretty comparable.

What Gilmour had in pure talent and better numbers Clark had in years of service and intangibles.

Gilmour was a guy the other coach planned around. Clark was the guy nobody on the other team wanted to go into a corner with. Clark was a tough guy who could not only fight with the best of that bunch but could outscore all of them. Gilmour was an elite 2 way center.

They both deserve to be there. Over time I predict Gilmour gets his place there.

I think Gilmour may not be as well thought of by the organization as he is by the fans.

Accurate is another

I believe you believe that.

 

[Craig Button]

What logic do you use to declare those 2 as better then Clark? The fact that you seem intent on saying it over and over doesn't make it true. Just looking at their stats shows Clark to have had a better prime and considerably more value to his teams based on trade value.

And why would what say a Corson did in Montreal weigh in on this topic at all? Your argument is weak, or highly flawed, as it is.....if you actually try and break it down it's even worse. 2 guys that played 2-3 years here are more highly thought of then an all time fan favorite? Do you even understand this market at all?

You most likely don't know who those two players are.
Both were tough enforcers similar to Clark
Both were playing in the same era as Clark
and both had better careers than Clark.

Argument wasn't weak or flawed.

Clark had 1 good season and two good playoff runs due to Doug Gilmour.
No Gilmour. No Playoffs.
Clark was often injured and wasn't a major contributor to the team since 1987.
Gilmour got Clark noticed.

The all time fan favourite is due to romanticism.
It's insane without a doubt


You just don't know

 

[saltming]

Accurate is another

:headshake:

Unless you mean accurate is another word? The I apologize.

 

[ACC1224]

You most likely don't know who those two players are.
Both were tough enforcers similar to Clark
Both were playing in the same era as Clark
and both had better careers than Clark.

Argument wasn't weak or flawed.

Clark had 1 good season and two good playoff runs due to Doug Gilmour.
No Gilmour. No Playoffs.
Clark was often injured and wasn't a major contributor to the team since 1987.
Gilmour got Clark noticed.

The all time fan favourite is due to romanticism.
It's insane without a doubt


You just don't know

In what world was Derek King an "enforcer"? Wendy had more penalty minutes in 3 years than King had in his entire career.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2723

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=1018

 

[Craig Button]

I believe you believe that.

Disprove it.

Clark was a <40 point producer and often injured.
Didn't contribute much to the Team until he was placed with Doug Gilmour.

Shayne Corson and Derek King are players similar to Wendel Clark and both have had better careers.

Somehow in crazy Leaf Land he's
Brendan Shanahan or Rick Tocchet

Oh God please don't tell me Clark is better than those two