Pre-Game Talk: Series Discussion: Blues @ Jets

[Honeycutt]

That was a hell of a game last night. Disappointing to lose in OT. Hats off to Winnipeg for withstanding the first period where the Blues dominated them but didn’t manage to score.

So, now we’ve got a best of 3 to move on. It’s hard not to have some PTSD with other year’s failures, but let’s see how this team comes out tomorrow. Take a moment and be glad you aren’t a dazed Bolts fan today wondering where their Cup parade went in a week. The Blues are still in this series, and the close games like last night can go either way.

Great post! 2 out of 3 playing on the road, we win game 5 in the peg and clinch on home ice! Winning is never easy time for the blues to nut up. Looking at ROR, schenn, and tank to have a big game, guys a too proud to be called out in the media and not respond. Heads up fellow blues fans the March continues! Let's Go BLUUUES!!

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

We need to move Schenn off the top line for game 5, and the two players I’d consider swapping with him are either Perron or Fabbri. I’d also swap Eddy and Dunn.

Perron has had great chemistry all year with O’Reilly, but I also think that 17-10 looked their best this year with DP57.

Fabbri, however, looked like himself last night, and it was wonderful to see. I think he could be a nice spark plug for the top line, and it’d probably give him a boost of confidence to play with 90-91.


Which one looks the best out of the two?

Perron-O’Reilly-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn/Sundqvist
Maroon-Bozak-Thomas
Fabbri-Barbashev-Steen

or

Fabbri-O’Reilly-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Perron
Maroon-Bozak-Thomas
Steen-Barbashev-Sundqvist

Edmundson-Pietrangelo
Bouwmeester-Parayko
Dunn-Bortuzzo

 

[mk80]

The Jets found all the answers for these last two games, we didn't make any adjustments other than inserting Fabbri into the lineup for Game 4. I thought Fabbri played really well, but the problem is he's one of about 5-6 who are finding success. Not enough. Again the radio post game said it's great to see the Bozak, Maroon, Thomas line have another great game, but they are the 3rd line, we have two other lines that need to start generating more offense, especially 5v5. But I fear with the Jets having last change again, they are going to shut us down at all corners yet again.

 

[Brian39]

He was like this in the middle of the 2017 season where he was a useless piece of garbage but in March or so when Allen started playing well so did Schwartz. And then he took it to a elite level and that play remained until he got hurt in Detroit last year.

Hes been a pile of hot garbage since. This is who he is. Hes either hurt, underperforming or just waiting to get hurt again. Hes the Blues version of Charlie Coyle/Granlund that the Wild had for years and they were smart to finally part ways.

He had 36 points in 53 games from 11/1/16-2/28/17. Which is a 55 point pace over 4 months.

3 month samples:
November-January: 30 points in 41 games (60 point pace)
December-February: 24 points in 39 games (50 point pace)

2 month samples:
November-December: 19 points in 28 games (55 point pace)
December-January: 18 points in 27 games (54 point pace)
January-February: 17 points in 25 games (55 point pace)

You have been provided with this data before when you have made this nonsense claim. Stop lying.

 

[HighNote]

The Jets found all the answers for these last two games, we didn't make any adjustments other than inserting Fabbri into the lineup for Game 4. I thought Fabbri played really well, but the problem is he's one of about 5-6 who are finding success. Not enough. Again the radio post game said it's great to see the Bozak, Maroon, Thomas line have another great game, but they are the 3rd line, we have two other lines that need to start generating more offense, especially 5v5. But I fear with the Jets having last change again, they are going to shut us down at all corners yet again.

I like it when Maurice has more of an impact on the game because it helps us.

 

[MissouriMook]

Sorry in advance for the long rant, but this has been building for about 12 hours.

This series is over unless the Jets decide not to play to their capabilities. There are three critical (and related) areas where we are just way overmatched against them.

Zone Exits: The Jets have managed to exit their zone smoothly and cleanly the last two games, even when under pressure, and have managed to connect with a forward who can immediately begin moving the puck up the ice. Our zone exits have been awful. Even when we have time and space, we're moving the puck to an area where we "think" our guy will get there first. When our D have been pressured, they're either turning the puck over or executing a flip out to the neutral zone - either way they are surrendering possession.

Zone entries: The Jets forwards have the skill and the discipline to make moves in small spaces to get pucks in off the wall and leave them in a space where either they can reach it first or it can get picked up by another one of their forwards and establish possession near the dots. Our forwards are trying to get the pucks in deep, but either fail to do so and the Jets D has the puck going quickly back the other way, or they succeed and we are just not winning enough puck battles to establish possession and get our cycle game going.

Passing: Related to both of these, the Jets are passing pucks to players >80% of the time and more often than not these passes are right on the tape. We are generally passing pucks to an area and the Jets have just wanted it more than we have the last two games which has us losing possession more than we are maintaining it. On the occasions when we are passing player-to-player, the passes frequently either miss the tape or get fumbled away.

These three areas more than any other the last two games is where I feel like the Jets have been able to successfully exploit the talent gap between these two teams. I don't see anyway we can beat this team 2 out of the next 3 - we can only work harder and hope that they beat themselves. Maybe one way to do that is to mix things up a bit and hope to get them off their game.

I know part of the success that Berube has had this season is in letting forwards settle in together and develop chemistry, but there are some things that are clearly not working, and I think it is time to engage the line blender. Here is what I would send out there for Game 5.

1. Maroon-ROR-Perron
I think ROR will get more out of Maroon's cycle game than Bozak has as the pivot, and I think Perron will work better as a triggerman than Thomas has. We need to be shooting pucks out of the cycle, not looking to pass and make the "next play."

2. Schenn-Thomas-Tarasenko
Thomas has been up and down, but I think having a sniper and another good shooter on his line will make the most of the things that he is doing right. Schenn can do the dirty work down low where, honestly, I think he and ROR have been kind of getting in each other's way lately. Who on this roster is in a better position to convert Thomas' slick passing than 91?

3. Steen-Bozak-Sundqvist
I like SunnyD better on the wing, and I think he has been exploited as the #2C by the Jets pretty badly the last two games. I think his board play is generally better than his play in the middle of the ice. I'd like to see this line matched up as much as possible against the Jets 26-55-81 line, though that will be tougher to do on the road. That line has 15 points in 4 games for the Jets, so let's put together a "shut down" line and make life a little more difficult for them. My only concern here is Steen's lack of speed, but I think if we have him shadow Wheeler maybe we can neuter their effectiveness a little.

4. Schwartz-Barbashev-Fabbri
Yeah, Schwartz just needs to have less responsibility and focus on not trying to do too much. He's been a tire fire for a while this year, but I still think we need to keep him in the lineup for now because if we can get him to click with someone maybe it pays off. Getting him on a wing with a little speed and bang in 49 and 15 might do the trick. Maybe. Sigh.

I'd also move the D a bit and either put Gunnar in the lineup for Eddy or put Eddy back with Petro. Eddy and Bortz have been fairly not good, especially recently.

4/6-27
19-55
29-41

If not for Binnington, we wouldn't be in the playoffs. Without him in the playoffs, this is probably an elimination game. Give the kid some help.

 

[HighNote]

Schenn has been arguably our worst player in the last 3 games. Scary bad. I thought Schwartz was one of our best forwards in game 4. He's really starting to heat up. I'd switch Schwartz and Schenn, keep everything else the same. Maybe put Mac in over Fabbri.

Schwartz - ROR - Tarasenko
Schenn - Sundqvist - Perron
Maroon - Bozak - Thomas
Fabbri/Mac - Barbashev - Steen

I don't think it's the best time to completely jumble the lines. You especially can't break up the Bozak line, it has been too good.

 

[MissouriMook]

Schenn has been arguably our worst player in the last 3 games. Scary bad. I thought Schwartz was one of our best forwards in game 4. He's really starting to heat up. I'd switch Schwartz and Schenn, keep everything else the same. Maybe put Mac in over Fabbri.

Schwartz - ROR - Tarasenko
Schenn - Sundqvist - Perron
Maroon - Bozak - Thomas
Fabbri/Mac - Barbashev - Steen

I don't think it's the best time to completely jumble the lines. You especially can't break up the Bozak line, it has been too good.

Too good at what? The playoffs is a results business, and that line has 2 goals and 4 points in 4 games. They may be playing well together, but we need to find ways to get the puck in the net and they aren't doing it. I'm not suggesting that the line is a problem, just that splitting them up to make the forward group as a whole more effective shouldn't be off the table.

 

[Benjamin Doveridge]

I agree that if the Jets play to their capabilities then we are toast. But, the Jets frequently have shown in the second half of the season that they have difficulties playing up to their potential and hopefully that inconsistency carries on for this series.

Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler completely owned us. Scheifele is in complete beast mode. He was a one man wrecking machine in the 3rd period and onwards. That entire line spent so much time in our zone I almost thought they were part of the Blues, lol.

Hopefully they burnt themselves out for game 5.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Sorry in advance for the long rant, but this has been building for about 12 hours.

This series is over unless the Jets decide not to play to their capabilities. There are three critical (and related) areas where we are just way overmatched against them.

Zone Exits: The Jets have managed to exit their zone smoothly and cleanly the last two games, even when under pressure, and have managed to connect with a forward who can immediately begin moving the puck up the ice. Our zone exits have been awful. Even when we have time and space, we're moving the puck to an area where we "think" our guy will get there first. When our D have been pressured, they're either turning the puck over or executing a flip out to the neutral zone - either way they are surrendering possession.

Zone entries: The Jets forwards have the skill and the discipline to make moves in small spaces to get pucks in off the wall and leave them in a space where either they can reach it first or it can get picked up by another one of their forwards and establish possession near the dots. Our forwards are trying to get the pucks in deep, but either fail to do so and the Jets D has the puck going quickly back the other way, or they succeed and we are just not winning enough puck battles to establish possession and get our cycle game going.

Passing: Related to both of these, the Jets are passing pucks to players >80% of the time and more often than not these passes are right on the tape. We are generally passing pucks to an area and the Jets have just wanted it more than we have the last two games which has us losing possession more than we are maintaining it. On the occasions when we are passing player-to-player, the passes frequently either miss the tape or get fumbled away.

These three areas more than any other the last two games is where I feel like the Jets have been able to successfully exploit the talent gap between these two teams. I don't see anyway we can beat this team 2 out of the next 3 - we can only work harder and hope that they beat themselves. Maybe one way to do that is to mix things up a bit and hope to get them off their game.

I know part of the success that Berube has had this season is in letting forwards settle in together and develop chemistry, but there are some things that are clearly not working, and I think it is time to engage the line blender. Here is what I would send out there for Game 5.

1. Maroon-ROR-Perron
I think ROR will get more out of Maroon's cycle game than Bozak has as the pivot, and I think Perron will work better as a triggerman than Thomas has. We need to be shooting pucks out of the cycle, not looking to pass and make the "next play."

2. Schenn-Thomas-Tarasenko
Thomas has been up and down, but I think having a sniper and another good shooter on his line will make the most of the things that he is doing right. Schenn can do the dirty work down low where, honestly, I think he and ROR have been kind of getting in each other's way lately. Who on this roster is in a better position to convert Thomas' slick passing than 91?

3. Steen-Bozak-Sundqvist
I like SunnyD better on the wing, and I think he has been exploited as the #2C by the Jets pretty badly the last two games. I think his board play is generally better than his play in the middle of the ice. I'd like to see this line matched up as much as possible against the Jets 26-55-81 line, though that will be tougher to do on the road. That line has 15 points in 4 games for the Jets, so let's put together a "shut down" line and make life a little more difficult for them. My only concern here is Steen's lack of speed, but I think if we have him shadow Wheeler maybe we can neuter their effectiveness a little.

4. Schwartz-Barbashev-Fabbri
Yeah, Schwartz just needs to have less responsibility and focus on not trying to do too much. He's been a tire fire for a while this year, but I still think we need to keep him in the lineup for now because if we can get him to click with someone maybe it pays off. Getting him on a wing with a little speed and bang in 49 and 15 might do the trick. Maybe. Sigh.

I'd also move the D a bit and either put Gunnar in the lineup for Eddy or put Eddy back with Petro. Eddy and Bortz have been fairly not good, especially recently.

4/6-27
19-55
29-41

If not for Binnington, we wouldn't be in the playoffs. Without him in the playoffs, this is probably an elimination game. Give the kid some help.

Too good at what? The playoffs is a results business, and that line has 2 goals and 4 points in 4 games. They may be playing well together, but we need to find ways to get the puck in the net and they aren't doing it. I'm not suggesting that the line is a problem, just that splitting them up to make the forward group as a whole more effective shouldn't be off the table.

I think it's a mistake to assume that Player X will maintain a similar level of play when mixed with Player Y, instead of on the line he has been playing on for months.

I just don't see any reason to split up the Bozak line.

 

[HighNote]

Too good at what? The playoffs is a results business, and that line has 2 goals and 4 points in 4 games. They may be playing well together, but we need to find ways to get the puck in the net and they aren't doing it. I'm not suggesting that the line is a problem, just that splitting them up to make the forward group as a whole more effective shouldn't be off the table.

There is more to the game than just scoring goals. They play strong defense and they are superb at puck possession in the offensive zone which wears down the Jets' defense greatly and creates more offensive zone faceoffs for our top guys. They've been absolutely dominant in this series.

I mean no disrespect, but I personally find the lines you put together to be horrendous. Schwartz on the 4th line? He was our best forward in game 4. Splitting up the Bozak line? That's been our best line in the series. Do we really think Pat Maroon is going to get O'Reilly going? If we need a third liner to get our #1C going, then maybe he isn't a #1C. Demoting Sundqvist and promoting Steen? Why?

And it's not like we can't score. The Jets have 2 more goals than us in the series. Game 3 padded their stats there. Every other game has been close offensively, as I expected before the series began. This series has and will come down to defense and special teams. Our defense was very bad in game 3 and we lost. Our defense was still bad in game 4, most notably in the third period. The Jets out-defended us in games 3 and 4 and we lost. These close games are beneficial for us, when it's a high scoring affair, that favors the Jets. A win in OT for the Blues last night and we're not even discussing this.

 

[MissouriMook]

I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree on a lot of this.

There is more to the game than just scoring goals. They play strong defense and they are superb at puck possession in the offensive zone which wears down the Jets' defense greatly and creates more offensive zone faceoffs for our top guys. They've been absolutely dominant in this series.

There is more to the game than just scoring goals. Goal prevention is important. In the end, hockey is a net sum game - score more goals than the opponent. If you can't put the puck in the net, then you have to keep the puck out of your net just to break even. Cycling for the sake of cycling (i.e. - possession without results on the scoreboard) doesn't really accomplish much in terms of the object of the game. Look, I'm not saying these guys have been bad. Quite the opposite, I've acknowledged that they have been good. But two goals in four games is hardly a juggernaut, and I feel like that leaves the option open to break them up if a better outcome can be achieved.

I mean no disrespect, but I personally find the lines you put together to be horrendous. Schwartz on the 4th line? He was our best forward in game 4. Splitting up the Bozak line? That's been our best line in the series. Do we really think Pat Maroon is going to get O'Reilly going? If we need a third liner to get our #1C going, then maybe he isn't a #1C. Demoting Sundqvist and promoting Steen? Why?

I can't agree at all with the bolded. I'm not going to tear the guy down like many others here have done. I feel like he is giving max effort every shift, every night, but again, results matter. He has been involved in the play more than his fair share, but he hasn't been winning board battles, he hasn't been driving possession, he hasn't been creating scoring chances, and most importantly he has not been finishing the chances he has been given. Effort without results in a small sample size generally doesn't suggest a need to react. This has been 70+ games now that he hasn't performed like a Top 6 player. Steen had a positive impact on the 4th line when given a more limited 5 v 5 role and I think he made his linemates better, though Sanford really didn't do much with the help he was given. I feel like maybe Steen can return to a larger role for Game 5 and Schwartz can be the one to make a positive impact on the 4th line. I don't see this as a relegation to the 4th line as much as an opportunity to simplify his game and see how well he plays with Barbashev and Fabbri.

And it's not like we can't score. The Jets have 2 more goals than us in the series. Game 3 padded their stats there. Every other game has been close offensively, as I expected before the series began. This series has and will come down to defense and special teams. Our defense was very bad in game 3 and we lost. Our defense was still bad in game 4, most notably in the third period. The Jets out-defended us in games 3 and 4 and we lost. These close games are beneficial for us, when it's a high scoring affair, that favors the Jets. A win in OT for the Blues last night and we're not even discussing this.

I don't know how you can watch these four games, and especially the last two games, and feel like we can just keep trying the same things and we'll get better results. We've averaged 2.44 goals per 60, which is OK, but we haven't been dangerous for extended periods of time the way the Jets have taken it to us at times. Most importantly, we still lack the ability to put an opponent away by extending the lead when we get one. I know it's the playoffs, things are tight, and the Jets have only been able to do that in Game 3, but the game doesn't just come down to defense and special teams, it comes down to being able to "stick the knife in their eye and into the brain and kill them" as our GM so eloquently put it, which means being able to continue to take it to the opponent when you have the lead rather than hanging on for dear life and hoping you can hold them off.

If the goaltending were flipped in this series, we'd probably be down 3-1 or swept. Binnington has been BY FAR our best player, and he's had to be because we haven't been able to get to our game and spend enough time in the O Zone. I disagree with the notion that we were simply out-defended last night. Except for the first few minutes of the game, we were out everything-ed. We've defended poorly, we've struggled mightily getting out of our zone, we've struggled mightily gaining the zone, and we've struggled mightily stopping the Jets' zone entries and exits. If we learned anything from our start to this season, it is how all of these things are impacted by both the forwards and the defense. If things aren't working (and it is obvious that my position is that they are not) then you try something different. Seeing the Corsi data from our D pairs, I think the one thing I would change from my suggested pairings is to get Bouwmeester and Parayko apart as they are clearly not working well together at the moment.

 

[Meatball]

Like Binnington, I'm going to take some responsibility, take these losses on the chin and apologize for being a whiny and entitled fan.

I'm ready to get back to work.

 

[67Blues]

FWIW, the Jets 1st line of Connor, Wheeler, and Scheifele straight up OWNED us in Games 3 and 4 in every way possible.

The point is that Berube has decided to neuter our top line by trying to keep ROR on the ice for their top line. Thus, as they dominate our top line, it basically takes the scoring away from us with apparently no repercussions to their top line from an offensive standpoint. I'm not sure why Berube kept that up when it wasn't working at all. Unless their top line would be that much better if ROR wasn't on the ice, and that is flat out scary.

If the Jets play like they have the past two games, I could easily see them in the WCF. Last year I said that the Jets would be the 2019 champions, so maybe I was just a soothsayer

 

[mw2noobbuster]

The point is that Berube has decided to neuter our top line by trying to keep ROR on the ice for their top line. Thus, as they dominate our top line, it basically takes the scoring away from us with apparently no repercussions to their top line from an offensive standpoint. I'm not sure why Berube kept that up when it wasn't working at all. Unless their top line would be that much better if ROR wasn't on the ice, and that is flat out scary.

If the Jets play like they have the past two games, I could easily see them in the WCF. Last year I said that the Jets would be the 2019 champions, so maybe I was just a soothsayer

Is it really so hard to believe? They're all almost 70+ point players. Their styles compliment each other perfectly and they have chemistry. Seriously underrated.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Really trying to keep the faith. But I have this little voice telling me we are losing the next 2.

This team has battled through alot of adversity so maybe it won't be a repeat of 2013 and 2014.

 

[Benjamin Doveridge]

This is my assessment of the 4 BEST players in the St.Louis zone:

1. Binny
2. Three way tie with Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler, lmao!

 

[ledzeppelinfan1]

I just don't see how major line shakeups are going to help us. Yeah, maybe move a couple guys...like replace Schenn with anyone besides Schwartz (how anyone could say he's been anything but terrible lately is appalling)...

But it just takes too long for lines to gain chemistry. We don't have that kind of time.

 

[Spektre]

Perron ROR Tarasenko
Maroon Bozak Thomas
Schwartz Sundqvist Schenn
Blais Barbashev Steen

I think Perron has earned the chance to play with ROR. Those two had really good chemistry early in the year. I doubt Berube mixes up the lines. He’ll probably sit Fabbri and that’s about it.

 

[Sushiko]

Really trying to keep the faith. But I have this little voice telling me we are losing the next 2.

This team has battled through alot of adversity so maybe it won't be a repeat of 2013 and 2014.

Me too, because I feel like it keeps happening! But I’m hopeful.

 

[HighNote]

I guess I'm the only one that noticed how good a game Schwartz had. About 5 times better than Schenn was. Schenn was good in game 1 but has declined significantly as the series has gone on. Game 4 was his worst game yet.

 

[ledzeppelinfan1]

I guess I'm the only one that noticed how good a game Schwartz had. About 5 times better than Schenn was. Schenn was good in game 1 but has declined significantly as the series has gone on. Game 4 was his worst game yet.

I didn't notice, personally. You're not the only person I've seen say that but...even if he played better, he's nowhere close to the player the Blues pay him and need him to be.

At all!!!

 

[Celtic Note]

A couple things I would like to see changed:

Our breakout is over reliant on the stretch pass. If we don’t get the puck off our sticks within a second, it’s already to late to think that way. By that time our forwards are frozen at the offensive blueline and the Jets are in position. We should utilize the stretch pass to keep Winnipeg honest and to catch them on neutral zone miscues, not use it as a primary tool. I would rather we go with a simple weak side breakout.

In the offensive zone, we cannot have both D retreat so quickly. I get preventing the odd man break, but we are relinquishing offensive zone time to do so. We were so good at holding the line in season, that needs to continue to be a strength. Larger minutes on defense means tired players and that certainly doesn’t help against a big and fast team.

The amount of slowing down on and reaching for pucks in the last two games is a sign of hesitancy and/or fear. We have to keep our feet moving and quit allowing the Jets to catch us. If your ass is out and your arms are outstretched, then something didn’t go right. That is to be reserved for desperation plays. Make the Jets chase you. It’s safer and more productive.

There is more to discuss, but those are the ones that really stand out to me.

 

[MissouriMook]

Perron ROR Tarasenko
Maroon Bozak Thomas
Schwartz Sundqvist Schenn
Blais Barbashev Steen

I think Perron has earned the chance to play with ROR. Those two had really good chemistry early in the year. I doubt Berube mixes up the lines. He’ll probably sit Fabbri and that’s about it.

I like this subtle change, but I would flip Schenn and Sunny to start. I have a hunch that moving Schenn back to the middle might get him going again, and I like Sunny better on the wing anyway. ROR, Bozak, and Schenn up the middle is pretty solid.

 

[RaleighBlues]

Just happy to watch some more Blues hockey. Let the chips fall boys.