Post-Game Talk: Series Discussion: 2015-16 ECQF - Detroit vs. Tampa Bay

[DFC]

If we ever do WWF avatars, Coop gets to be Macho Man. Why? Because he brings the madness.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Coop's presser

https://www.nhl.com/lightning/video/jon-cooper-pc-041116/t-277437434/c-43439603

He basically admits he wants to play a defensive game and his decision to scratch Vladdy is down to experience.


I wish someone just walk up and shoot me in the head.

 

[DFC]

We're gonna score 2 goals in 4 games.

 

[Hoek]

So I just caught up.

Wow that lineup is bad.

Actually have no problem with JAM being scratched but Namesy? I dunno. And then to draft up the lines that way. Mind boggling.

 

[Leonardo87]

We're gonna score 2 goals in 4 games.

You are being too optimistic.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Since I have too much time on my hands today, let's statistically-wise check which forward Cooper is likely to scratch, brace yourselves :

(5v5 - 500 minutes played)
Points / ice time : 3rd among forwards
Corsi for % : 1st
High-danger scoring chance % : 1st
Scoring chance % : 2nd
Limiting shots against : 3rd
Limiting shots attempt : 3rd (not the same players are good at limiting both, but Vlad remains at the top)
Shot for % : 1st
Corsi +/- : 1st (tied with Kuch)
Goal for % : 1st



FYI Paquette is close to be the negative photo of Namestnikov's advanced stats.

 

[FDfranklin]

Interesting, no?

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

So like JAM, Coop doesn't want to put Vladdy on the 4th line because roles. I get it, but why not put Filppula on the 4th line. Problem solved, no?

Killorn - Johnson - Kucherov
Palat - Vladdy - Drouin
Brown - Paquette - Callahan
Boyle - Filppula - Condra/Blunden


Brown-Filppula-Callahan was a shutdown line for a good chunk of the year, so he's been more focused playing as a defensive forward than a point producer anyway. He's not going to be able to crash and bang like Boyle and Blunden, but Boyle + Filppula makes a much more reliable 4th line. You don't have to break up the 3rd line which was good vs the Toews line in the Finals, and Vladdy and Palat already have some chemistry from earlier in the year.

Vladdy wasn't good vs Detroit last year. He had no room and he couldn't play that type of grind it out game. He's not as strong to win the grind it out battles and his speed and skill were put in check. But a year later he's not the same player. I want to see what he can do this time around. We'll be kicking ourselves if Game 1 goes to OT.

Interesting, no?

Not really. Playoff teams carry 3 goalies just in case. He was up here for Game 1 last year too.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

So like JAM, Coop doesn't want to put Vladdy on the 4th line because roles. I get it, but why not put Filppula on the 4th line. Problem solved, no?

Killorn - Johnson - Kucherov
Palat - Vladdy - Drouin
Brown - Paquette - Callahan
Boyle - Filppula - Condra/Blunden


Brown-Filppula-Callahan was a shutdown line for a good chunk of the year, so he's been more focused playing as a defensive forward than a point producer anyway. He's not going to be able to crash and bang like Boyle and Blunden, but Boyle + Filppula makes a much more reliable 4th line. You don't have to break up the 3rd line which was good vs the Toews line in the Finals, and Vladdy and Palat already have some chemistry from earlier in the year.

That's where Coop's approach is totally flawed: He believes Flip or Paquette are better defensive option than Namestnikov at even strength but when #90 steps on the ice, whoever he's paired with, the team suddenly limits the number of scoring chance, shots and goals against... And directly compared to either Flip or Paquette, it is by a lot.

Over 80 games this season, do you guys know how many times Namestnikov finished a game with a +/- rating worse than minus -1 ?

It happened once.

..And it was a minus -2. I know it's only plus/minus, but at this point the kid must be doing something right no ?

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Coop's presser

https://www.nhl.com/lightning/video/jon-cooper-pc-041116/t-277437434/c-43439603

He basically admits he wants to play a defensive game and his decision to scratch Vladdy is down to experience.


I wish someone just walk up and shoot me in the head.

Where was the experience argument last year with Namestnikov vs. Drouin? Furthermore, what the hell was the point of seeing Vladdy get his ass handed to him physically the entire postseason if it didn't provide him enough experience to crack the playoff lineup a year later?

Jeezus, Coop. This guy kills me.

 

[HotPaquette]

Where was the experience argument last year with Namestnikov vs. Drouin? Furthermore, what the hell was the point of seeing Vladdy get his ass handed to him physically the entire postseason if it didn't provide him enough experience to crack the playoff lineup a year later?

Jeezus, Coop. This guy kills me.

So frustrating watching this happen, every time Vladdy plays in the top six he has been a force. Kid plays 80 games this season and has continued to improve all year, then once the playoffs come around coop sits him for more grinders?

Unbelievable, this teams needs more scoring in the lineup not less.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

Where was the experience argument last year with Namestnikov vs. Drouin? Furthermore, what the hell was the point of seeing Vladdy get his ass handed to him physically the entire postseason if it didn't provide him enough experience to crack the playoff lineup a year later?

Jeezus, Coop. This guy kills me.

Coop is mostly fail at this point...

 

[MattM92]

All the grinders! Can't wait to score 6 goals in 4 games and for Cooper to say scoring goals isn't the problem.

 

[Bandit Keith]

Can't help but feel a little bit bad for Bishop. Cooper is basically saying to him with the team we are icing that if he lets in more than one goal we lose.

 

[2MinutesforGiraffing]

Not really. Playoff teams carry 3 goalies just in case. He was up here for Game 1 last year too.

I'm ready for manbun patrol.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Since I have too much time on my hands today, let's statistically-wise check which forward Cooper is likely to scratch, brace yourselves :

(5v5 - 500 minutes played)
Points / ice time : 3rd among forwards
Corsi for % : 1st
High-danger scoring chance % : 1st
Scoring chance % : 2nd
Limiting shots against : 3rd
Limiting shots attempt : 3rd (not the same players are good at limiting both, but Vlad remains at the top)
Shot for % : 1st
Corsi +/- : 1st (tied with Kuch)
Goal for % : 1st



FYI Paquette is close to be the negative photo of Namestnikov's advanced stats.

But the eye test bro! Coop knows things...

 

[FDfranklin]

I was thinking about this last night when I couldn't sleep because I want tonight to be here already.

We are bashing Coop for not playing Jam or Namestnikov, yet he is playing Drouin in a top 6 role after everything that happened this year? I think it's kind of crazy Drouin is getting the opportunity he is right now because guys like Nammy and JAM deserve his spot. I think I may have just contradicted myself, I'm not sure what to think anymore.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

You can only contradict yourself trying to elucidate an irrational process.

 

[LightningStrikes]

I was thinking about this last night when I couldn't sleep because I want tonight to be here already.

We are bashing Coop for not playing Jam or Namestnikov, yet he is playing Drouin in a top 6 role after everything that happened this year? I think it's kind of crazy Drouin is getting the opportunity he is right now because guys like Nammy and JAM deserve his spot. I think I may have just contradicted myself, I'm not sure what to think anymore.

As I've said in the Jon Cooper thread, Cooper can't just close his eyes anymore when it comes to Drouin. The trade demand, him refusing to play later on and getting suspended brought lots and lots of attention to the situation. Suddenly it was all eyes on Tampa (players, GMs, coaches, fans and the media of course from all across the league and the world of hockey). Now after he has reported back and the team has lifted the suspension, Drouin has performed on all levels (Syracuse, Tampa). Simpy put, people will argue in favor of Drouin, if Cooper goes back to putting Drouin on a line with Boyle and Brown for 5-8 minutes a game. He can't afford it. The organization can't afford it. With Drouin answering his critics with goals and assists and two-way play on the ice, Cooper's and eventually Yzerman's credibility would be questioned in case of another demotion or - how the media and both Tampa Bay and outside fans will put it - further mismanagement of a high caliber talent.

On a scale compared to Drouin nobody gives a crap about Marchessault or Namestnikov.

 

[FDfranklin]

As I've said in the Jon Cooper thread, Cooper can't just close his eyes anymore when it comes to Drouin. The trade demand, him refusing to play later on and getting suspended brought lots and lots of attention to the situation. Suddenly it was all eyes on Tampa (players, GMs, coaches, fans and the media of course from all across the league and the world of hockey). Now after he has reported back and the team has lifted the suspension, Drouin has performed on all levels (Syracuse, Tampa). Simpy put, people will argue in favor of Drouin, if Cooper goes back to putting Drouin on a line with Boyle and Brown for 5-8 minutes a game. He can't afford it. The organization can't afford it. With Drouin answering his critics with goals and assists and two-way play on the ice, Cooper's and eventually Yzerman's credibility would be questioned in case of another demotion or - how the media and both Tampa Bay and outside fans will put it - further mismanagement of a high caliber talent.

On a scale compared to Drouin nobody gives a crap about Marchessault or Namestnikov.

I agree with everything you said, it's just a silly situation. It's too bad things happened the way they did because having Drouin play the full season developing and building chemistry would definitely help in the playoffs!

 

[Leonardo87]

One mistake from Drouin and he is likely getting benched and/or demoted. Especially with it being the playoffs. Not sure if that is a good way to develop a player or not. But Drouin has been skating on thin ice for a couple of seasons now under Cooper but seems to get the brunt of it. But scratching Vladdy and JAM in favor of Blunden and Condra shows he is playing Detroit's game. Cooper will either come out looking like coach of the year or a eh hem a ****kng idiot.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

One mistake from Drouin and he is likely getting benched and/or demoted. Especially with it being the playoffs. Not sure if that is a good way to develop a player or not. But Drouin has been skating on thin ice for a couple of seasons now under Cooper but seems to get the brunt of it. But scratching Vladdy and JAM in favor or Blunden and Condra shows he is playing Detroit's game. Cooper will either come out looking like coach of the year or a eh hem a ****kng idiot.

Even with Coop doing his best to make this series as close as possible, Detroit is still an average team at best this season with glaring weakness at key positions. it's not 2015 anymore where Detroit was a terrible match-up for us.

Cooper must be fired if Detroit eliminate us, particularly if he keeps misusing the strength of his line-up.

 

[LightningStrikes]

One mistake from Drouin and he is likely getting benched and/or demoted. Especially with it being the playoffs. Not sure if that is a good way to develop a player or not. But Drouin has been skating on thin ice for a couple of seasons now under Cooper but seems to get the brunt of it. But scratching Vladdy and JAM in favor of Blunden and Condra shows he is playing Detroit's game. Cooper will either come out looking like coach of the year or a eh hem a ****kng idiot.

That's my biggest knock on Cooper. He's trying to ice a defensive-minded team that, with what he got in terms of player ressources, is as physical as possible. Why? Because (and of course I'm just speculating) that's how it's supposed to be in a playoff environment. Hard-nosed, low-scoring and physical. He completely ignores that even without Stamkos and with a banged up Johnson or Callahan, his team is still highly competitive in terms of offensive prowess. Because that's the way it's built by Yzerman.

He completely ignores that he has the possibility to dictate the game flow and pace with all these fast and talented players. Why not ice three lines of dynamic and energetic players? Kucherov, Palat, Johnson, Drouin, Marchessault, Namestnikov, Brown, heck even Killorn or Filppula - they all can fly. Make these slow teams looking to play the body and clog up the middle of the ice get dizzy when our team trucks by them. I mean we're talking Detroit Red Wings here, not Washington Capitals or other teams like that that are on a whole different level right now.

Too bad we didnt practice and optimize this brand of hockey at all the entire season. It's the old personnel vs. game plan debate from the other thread, really.

 

[Leonardo87]

That's my biggest knock on Cooper. He's trying to ice a defensive-minded team that, with what he got in terms of player ressources, is as physical as possible. Why? Because (and of course I'm just speculating) that's how it's supposed to be in a playoff environment. Hard-nosed, low-scoring and physical. He completely ignores that even without Stamkos and with a banged up Johnson or Callahan, his team is still highly competitive in terms of offensive prowess. Because that's the way it's built by Yzerman.

He completely ignores that he has the possibility to dictate the game flow and pace with all these fast and talented players. Why not ice three lines of dynamic and energetic players? Kucherov, Palat, Johnson, Drouin, Marchessault, Namestnikov, Brown, heck even Killorn or Filppula - they all can fly. Make these slow teams looking to play the body and clog up the middle of the ice get dizzy when our team trucks by them. I mean we're talking Detroit Red Wings here, not Washington Capitals or other teams like that that are on a whole different level right now.

Too bad we didnt practice and optimize this brand of hockey at all the entire season. It's the old personnel vs. game plan debate from the other thread, really.

Coops answer to playing a physical team is to put our most physical players all on one line instead of mixing things up. So unless they are getting 20 mins a game don't see the reasoning in that.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

That's my biggest knock on Cooper. He's trying to ice a defensive-minded team that, with what he got in terms of player ressources, is as physical as possible. Why? Because (and of course I'm just speculating) that's how it's supposed to be in a playoff environment. Hard-nosed, low-scoring and physical. He completely ignores that even without Stamkos and with a banged up Johnson or Callahan, his team is still highly competitive in terms of offensive prowess. Because that's the way it's built by Yzerman.

He completely ignores that he has the possibility to dictate the game flow and pace with all these fast and talented players. Why not ice three lines of dynamic and energetic players? Kucherov, Palat, Johnson, Drouin, Marchessault, Namestnikov, Brown, heck even Killorn or Filppula - they all can fly. Make these slow teams looking to play the body and clog up the middle of the ice get dizzy when our team trucks by them. I mean we're talking Detroit Red Wings here, not Washington Capitals or other teams like that that are on a whole different level right now.

Too bad we didnt practice and optimize this brand of hockey at all the entire season. It's the old personnel vs. game plan debate from the other thread, really.

You nailed it.