Speculation: Sens, Lebreton, and the NCC part II

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Sounds like he wasn't there, but is assuming that things went to **** because we're a young team that isn't steeped in tradition and surrounded by folks to keep players in line.

Dick move to go public with that, but the reality is that we are a young team with a paper thin front office and a brand new GM.

Once we add Phillips, Neil, Alfie, and some new ownership we can flesh out the front office and start steeping our tradition!

Ottawa was the 2nd oldest team in the NHL by average age going into last season. That was one of the big reasons I predicted the team would collapse.

That's obviously going to change going forward, I'm just worried it's going to sway way too hard in the other direction.

 

[armani]

All signs, i.e. Stone contract, no EK/Duchene contract talks, the epic silence and pathetic attempts at marketing point to a change in team ownership in some not so small capacity.

Feels like Karlsson is re-signing, hopefully Duchene can be locked in soon after.

Yet not a single peep from local/mainstream media, which would mean only people with connections to the potential new owner/partner(s) are speaking, but without naming names and details that may jeopardize negotiations/relationships.

I was always an optimist about Karlsson being a Sens for another 8 years, then the hope became the faintest, but now there is a flicker of renewed hope. Shout outs to posters like Wondercarrot and MySens (I am a belieber) for originally bringing us these favourable rumours. Hope and pray you guys are right!

 

[Ray Kinsella]

All signs, i.e. Stone contract, no EK/Duchene contract talks, the epic silence and pathetic attempts at marketing point to a change in team ownership in some not so small capacity.

Feels like Karlsson is re-signing, hopefully Duchene can be locked in soon after.

Yet not a single peep from local/mainstream media, which would mean only people with connections to the potential new owner/partner(s) are speaking, but without naming names and details that may jeopardize negotiations/relationships.

I was always an optimist about Karlsson being a Sens for another 8 years, then the hope became the faintest, but now there is a flicker of renewed hope. Shout outs to posters like Wondercarrot and MySens (I am a belieber) for originally bringing us these favourable rumours. Hope and pray you guys are right!

You got it... the new investor is the Biebs!

 

[L'Aveuglette]

All signs, i.e. Stone contract, no EK/Duchene contract talks, the epic silence and pathetic attempts at marketing point to a change in team ownership in some not so small capacity.

Feels like Karlsson is re-signing, hopefully Duchene can be locked in soon after.

Yet not a single peep from local/mainstream media, which would mean only people with connections to the potential new owner/partner(s) are speaking, but without naming names and details that may jeopardize negotiations/relationships.

I was always an optimist about Karlsson being a Sens for another 8 years, then the hope became the faintest, but now there is a flicker of renewed hope. Shout outs to posters like Wondercarrot and MySens (I am a belieber) for originally bringing us these favourable rumours. Hope and pray you guys are right!

Please give me some of that kool-aid you're drinking, Mr. Armani.

 

[armani]

Please give me some of that kool-aid you're drinking, Mr. Armani.

I am drinking some Wondercarrot juice called MySens.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I am drinking some Wondercarrot juice called MySens.

Well, don't choke on it.

 

[coladin]

Except I'm doing it from a position set in reality, whereas he and you do it from your head buried in the sand.

Actually, I believe I called you ostrich first

 

[Ice-Tray]

Ottawa was the 2nd oldest team in the NHL by average age going into last season. That was one of the big reasons I predicted the team would collapse.

That's obviously going to change going forward, I'm just worried it's going to sway way too hard in the other direction.

I just want to see exciting and inspired hockey again, our youth can totally do this, as long GB is committed to playing the way PD has requested/demanded.

 

[harrisb]

From that article, it is not an ownership partnership from what I can see. It's an advertising/maintenance partnership.

What's funny is that it probably went down something like this this.
Euge couldn't afford garbage pickup or the environmental and site prep for Lebreton
Euge realized that he has thousands of unsold seats and boxes
Euge offers Tomlinson advertising rights, seats and a box to give him a break on costs for the above.

Lots of bartering goes on in business and I'd imagine this is exactly a money move.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I remember this teaching moment from last year.

 

[NorthCoast]

because they have ownership that is prepared to spend at levels that outstrip revenues and we don't

I don't think TB is willing to lose money, I think Vinnik just has deeper pockets to fund a longer ROI, and is more honest about seeing the team as part of the overall arena/land development revenue pie.

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampaba...how-much-the-bolts-business-has-improved.html

Tampa Bay Lightning's finances on verge of skating into the black

People keep talking about the market and attendance, but you can see above how much revenue can be impacted by properly funding (ie: investment + risk) all aspects of the organisation properly and having ownership/management at the top that know what they are doing.

I just think that it's amazing the contrast between the two organisations considering that they both bring in relatively the same amount of revenue.

 

[harrisb]

I don't think TB is willing to lose money, I think Vinnik just has deeper pockets to fund a longer ROI, and is more honest about seeing the team as part of the overall arena/land development revenue pie.

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampaba...how-much-the-bolts-business-has-improved.html

Tampa Bay Lightning's finances on verge of skating into the black

People keep talking about the market and attendance, but you can see above how much revenue can be impacted by properly funding (ie: investment + risk) all aspects of the organisation properly and having ownership/management at the top that know what they are doing.

I just think that it's amazing the contrast between the two organisations considering that they both bring in relatively the same amount of revenue.

Actually I believe we may have significantly higher revenues when the arena, parking, concessions and sensplexes are accounted for. Tampa Sports Authority owns the arena for the Lightning and I don't see Vinnik on the board so I don't believe he owns that portion. Which means the Euge has quite a bit more revenue coming in than Vinnik but of course he separates those assets on paper like the supporters will point out. I'm pretty sure the arena with it's main tenant and concerts, parking lot rentals for car / trailer sales, concessions and event parking is not losing money. The sensplexes are not losing money either or they would simply shut them down or sell to the city.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don't think TB is willing to lose money, I think Vinnik just has deeper pockets to fund a longer ROI, and is more honest about seeing the team as part of the overall arena/land development revenue pie.

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampaba...how-much-the-bolts-business-has-improved.html

Tampa Bay Lightning's finances on verge of skating into the black

People keep talking about the market and attendance, but you can see above how much revenue can be impacted by properly funding (ie: investment + risk) all aspects of the organisation properly and having ownership/management at the top that know what they are doing.

I just think that it's amazing the contrast between the two organisations considering that they both bring in relatively the same amount of revenue.

Melnyk was Vinnik-like when he first got here: spending on the roster was not this big an issue when he became the owner. Yeah Muckler moved Hossa partly because of money but we got better and younger in the short term (peak Heatley was a beast) so it wasn't just "dump cash and take what you can get" either.

We'll see how long Vinnik will stomach spending to the cap and not getting a Cup (if they don't get one soon-ish).

 

[Sensung]

I don't think TB is willing to lose money, I think Vinnik just has deeper pockets to fund a longer ROI, and is more honest about seeing the team as part of the overall arena/land development revenue pie.

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampaba...how-much-the-bolts-business-has-improved.html

Tampa Bay Lightning's finances on verge of skating into the black

People keep talking about the market and attendance, but you can see above how much revenue can be impacted by properly funding (ie: investment + risk) all aspects of the organisation properly and having ownership/management at the top that know what they are doing.

I just think that it's amazing the contrast between the two organisations considering that they both bring in relatively the same amount of revenue.

Great post...expect it to be glossed over by the Melnyk supporters.

 

[stempniaksen]

We'll see how long Vinnik will stomach spending to the cap and not getting a Cup (if they don't get one soon-ish).

As long as he doesn't go through a divorce and get booted from his company I think it's safe to say, longer than Eugene.

 

[Ice-Tray]

One thing I have learned in this thread is that anyone who doesn't have a personal vendetta against the current owner is an EM supporter. Cool.

In regards to TB, I'm happy for them, but like most things it will be interesting to see how the organization rolls along once they go through a down turn and are no longer one of the best teams in the league. It's when times are tough for a prolonged period that we see how loyal the fan base is, and how willing owners are to lose money. I think they are definitely better off in the long run, that they once were though.

We've had it great, and had it rough under EM, thankfully it looks like we're getting close to righting the ship again.

 

[coladin]

I don't think TB is willing to lose money, I think Vinnik just has deeper pockets to fund a longer ROI, and is more honest about seeing the team as part of the overall arena/land development revenue pie.

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampaba...how-much-the-bolts-business-has-improved.html

Tampa Bay Lightning's finances on verge of skating into the black

People keep talking about the market and attendance, but you can see above how much revenue can be impacted by properly funding (ie: investment + risk) all aspects of the organisation properly and having ownership/management at the top that know what they are doing.

I just think that it's amazing the contrast between the two organisations considering that they both bring in relatively the same amount of revenue.

They have a heck of a team there, and are still in the red. Place is full, but they are still in the red. I mean, that is great for the fans, but at some point Vinnik will want to stop bleeding, and I recall reading on their boards that there are price increases, significant ones (notably in the playoffs), and I guess it is now on their fans to pony up, which I am sure they are glad to do with a team like that.

Vinnik has quite the project down there as well, and is obviously thinking long term because hockey operations certainly isn't doing it. But good on them making the brand strong and putting out an exciting product.

 

[stempniaksen]

We've had it great, and had it rough under EM, thankfully it looks like we're getting close to righting the ship again.

I love the optimism and hope you're right. I see zero proof that we're "close to righting the ship again" though. The rumours around these parts are promising, but nothing the organization has done in the last calendar year should give you the impression things are turning around.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I love the optimism and hope you're right. I see zero proof that we're "close to righting the ship again" though. The rumours around these parts are promising, but nothing the organization has done in the last calendar year should give you the impression things are turning around.

I agree about this year, but this summer the things seem to have stalled, and rumours are rampant about the arrival of exactly what we need, new ownership with cash. Also, rumours have been flying about our stars wanting to stay, especially with EK and new ownership.

It's not a lot t get super hopeful for, but it's enough for me, especially given the year we just had, and how seemingly all things seem to point to impending change for the good.

 

[NorthCoast]

They have a heck of a team there, and are still in the red. Place is full, but they are still in the red. I mean, that is great for the fans, but at some point Vinnik will want to stop bleeding, and I recall reading on their boards that there are price increases, significant ones (notably in the playoffs), and I guess it is now on their fans to pony up, which I am sure they are glad to do with a team like that.

Vinnik has quite the project down there as well, and is obviously thinking long term because hockey operations certainly isn't doing it. But good on them making the brand strong and putting out an exciting product.

Actually the article is saying that they are almost in the black (probably are because it's been a year). And that's without the TV money that the Sens get.


But that's not really the point. The point is that Ottawa generates relatively the same annual revenue as other non-major market teams. (The Business Of Hockey) And TB, or Nashville, or Washington...is proof that you can be competitive year over year on an average amount of revenue.

Whether they are profitable or not doesn't matter because the business models from team to team are all relatively the same. Therefore:

- If one is losing money every year then they are probably all losing money every year and its a league issue.
- If one is losing money every year and the rest are doing fine, on the same revenue, then it's a management/ownership issue, not a market issue.


In light of this, why is the current inability to re-sign top players only an issue in Ottawa, and not Minnesota, San Jose, Colorado, Nashville, Columbus, etc. Sure, every once and a while you will have a player that has issues with Coach, team, city and wants out...but that is the rare exception, not the rule.

If Ottawa has just as much money as most other teams...why is money an issue when it comes to resigning our players???

Why can't we fund a player operations and development staff the same as other teams? (Melnyk's own words that we have cut to the bone)

Why are former players like Oduya making statements that the team doesn't have the same structure in place as other teams? http://www.hockeysverige.se/2018/08/20/johnny-oduya-osaker-pa-framtiden/

Where is all the money going and why don't other teams have the same problems????

One thing I have learned in this thread is that anyone who doesn't have a personal vendetta against the current owner is an EM supporter. Cool.

Yeah, I agree that's not a great look for the board. You should be able to like 30% of what the team does and hate 70% or whatever without being branded as an EM supporter.

Personally I don't care who owns the team so long as it is allowed to operate in a similar way to other teams that generate about the same in revenue. But right now this team is a s#!tshow, so if it's not revenue, and it's not EM, then why the $%& is EM not firing whoever is responsible for this mess?

 

[coladin]

Actually the article is saying that they are almost in the black (probably are because it's been a year). And that's without the TV money that the Sens get.


But that's not really the point. The point is that Ottawa generates relatively the same annual revenue as other non-major market teams. (The Business Of Hockey) And TB, or Nashville, or Washington...is proof that you can be competitive year over year on an average amount of revenue.

Whether they are profitable or not doesn't matter because the business models from team to team are all relatively the same. Therefore:

- If one is losing money every year then they are probably all losing money every year and its a league issue.
- If one is losing money every year and the rest are doing fine, on the same revenue, then it's a management/ownership issue, not a market issue.


In light of this, why is the current inability to re-sign top players only an issue in Ottawa, and not Minnesota, San Jose, Colorado, Nashville, Columbus, etc. Sure, every once and a while you will have a player that has issues with Coach, team, city and wants out...but that is the rare exception, not the rule.

If Ottawa has just as much money as most other teams...why is money an issue when it comes to resigning our players???

Why can't we fund a player operations and development staff the same as other teams? (Melnyk's own words that we have cut to the bone)

Why are former players like Oduya making statements that the team doesn't have the same structure in place as other teams? http://www.hockeysverige.se/2018/08/20/johnny-oduya-osaker-pa-framtiden/

Where is all the money going and why don't other teams have the same problems????



Yeah, I agree that's not a great look for the board. You should be able to like 30% of what the team does and hate 70% or whatever without being branded as an EM supporter.

Personally I don't care who owns the team so long as it is allowed to operate in a similar way to other teams that generate about the same in revenue. But right now this team is a s#!tshow, so if it's not revenue, and it's not EM, then why the $%& is EM not firing whoever is responsible for this mess?

I agree, i don't care who runs the show. I just want it to be able to retain players that I pay to watch.

There is debt servicing that is a moderate problem. And he did fire people.

 

[JD1]

Actually the article is saying that they are almost in the black (probably are because it's been a year). And that's without the TV money that the Sens get.


But that's not really the point. The point is that Ottawa generates relatively the same annual revenue as other non-major market teams. (The Business Of Hockey) And TB, or Nashville, or Washington...is proof that you can be competitive year over year on an average amount of revenue.

Whether they are profitable or not doesn't matter because the business models from team to team are all relatively the same. Therefore:

- If one is losing money every year then they are probably all losing money every year and its a league issue.
- If one is losing money every year and the rest are doing fine, on the same revenue, then it's a management/ownership issue, not a market issue.


In light of this, why is the current inability to re-sign top players only an issue in Ottawa, and not Minnesota, San Jose, Colorado, Nashville, Columbus, etc. Sure, every once and a while you will have a player that has issues with Coach, team, city and wants out...but that is the rare exception, not the rule.

If Ottawa has just as much money as most other teams...why is money an issue when it comes to resigning our players???

Why can't we fund a player operations and development staff the same as other teams? (Melnyk's own words that we have cut to the bone)

Why are former players like Oduya making statements that the team doesn't have the same structure in place as other teams? http://www.hockeysverige.se/2018/08/20/johnny-oduya-osaker-pa-framtiden/

Where is all the money going and why don't other teams have the same problems????



Yeah, I agree that's not a great look for the board. You should be able to like 30% of what the team does and hate 70% or whatever without being branded as an EM supporter.

Personally I don't care who owns the team so long as it is allowed to operate in a similar way to other teams that generate about the same in revenue. But right now this team is a s#!tshow, so if it's not revenue, and it's not EM, then why the $%& is EM not firing whoever is responsible for this mess?

vinik has owned that team since 2010 and is just now turning a profit. sounds a lot like Melnyk doesn't it? he lost money pretty steadily until he got big new tv revenues.

Ive noted a few times that I believe the new building we are seeking is what's causing the current financial crisis. prior to the past 18 months we've spent in line or above our revenues for all of Melnyk's tenure.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

2019 wow this guy must be good

 

[BloodRedArmy]

I remember this teaching moment from last year.

If you haven't read Sean Avery's book, he talks a bit about Crawford being totally insane:

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If you haven't read Sean Avery's book, he talks a bit about Crawford being totally insane:
View media item 2793

Yah that tweet doesn't look too bad but the video of that from when it happened was much worse and it was a mistake in judgement but not by all that much.. I thought the reaction was a little extreme for a vet coach on a rookie player but coaches get po'ed just like anyone else sometimes.