Confirmed with Link: Sens acquire Callahan + pick for Condon + pick

[BatherSeason]

Why was the goal to get rid of Condon?

The same guy who one season earlier gifted Condon with a sweetheart deal for a backup goal, completely reverts course and we applaud him for fixing his own mess. Nice one Count!

 

[inthewings]

So your imagination.

Got it.

You're being obtuse. TB did not want Mike Condon. They took him on in exchange for us taking on Callahan's cap hit. If, instead of us sending Condon their way we bought him out, there surely would have been another form of compensation on the table.

Given TB's situation, they probably would have preferred to part with a draft pick than take on Condon.

 

[DaveMatthew]

So your imagination.

Got it.

Or it's based on a large number of past deals in which cap space was acquired for an actual hockey asset.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Condon's contract SHOULD be an insignificant drop in the bucket, all things considered. We're tens of millions of dollars away from having to worry about his cap hit, and we're already dead last in the league in player expenditures.

We had an opportunity to take Callahan's cap hit on, in return for actual hockey assets. Instead, we used that opportunity to save money we didn't need, and have no plans on using. This isn't saving money now to spend later. This money won't get spent at all.

This trade makes no sense from a hockey point of view. None. And it ABSOLUTELY could have. It is 100% a missed opportunity to improve the futures of this team, and add a hockey asset.

In theory, aren't there a whole bunch of teams that could have done what you proposed, but nothing was done? Columbus, NJ, Minny, LA. Why didn't someone take advantage of taking that LTIR contract?

 

[BatherSeason]

So




So you're comparing a team that has their "window" open for a deep run in the playoffs, and legitimate shot at the Cup........ with a team in their second year of a tear-down/re-build and are aiming to select as high as possible in the next two drafts.

Tear down and a rebuild while also extending the competitive windows of two divisional rivals by providing them the cap flexibility to sign their young stars. Bravo Pierre!

 

[BankStreetParade]

I don't blame Melnyk and Dorion. I blame the NHL CBA for allowing this type of bullshit in the first place. Every time they conceive a CBA, they leave 100 different salary loopholes and ways around the "spirit of the agreement" for teams to find every possible edge they can get to f*** over the salary cap.

It used to be massively front loaded deals with 3-5 "dead" years tacked on to the end to bring AAVs down. Then they figured you could just throw guys in the minors and be rid of their deadweight contracts when they stopped performing. Then they found a way to give monstrous signing bonuses where players are being paid 80-90% of their total contract value in signing bonuses. And now teams have figured out a way to weaponize LTIR contracts to both reach the floor and go over the ceiling of the cap.

Why be mad at Melnyk and Dorion? They're abusing the spirit of this agreement just like virtually every other team is doing in one way or another. Same shit, different pile.

 

[BatherSeason]

Given the choice to accomplish the same goal (shedding Condon from the NHL roster),

Once again, Condon was on this roster because of the contract offered to him by Eugene Melnyk and Pierre Dorion.

 

[SpezDispenser]

What? They didn't even add a pick. They moved up by 4-8 spots. They could have kept their 6th and tried to "hit a home run".

It'd be one thing if they acquired an extra pick. Then you can say it's another lottery ticket. But they didn't.

I thought they moved up a round. I guess the difference isn't big if Tampa doesn't choke this year.

 

[BonkTastic]

But dumping Condon contract had no value to the Sens aside from moving up 5 spots

We 100% did not need to dump condon from a hockey ops perspective, though.

Like, at all.

So the argument is not that dumping Condon had no trade value in a vacuum... but rather why did we choose "dumping Condon" as the asset we wanted in return for taking on Callahan, instead of an actual hockey asset that might have helped the rebuild?

 

[DaveMatthew]

So




So you're comparing a team that has their "window" open for a deep run in the playoffs, and legitimate shot at the Cup........ with a team in their second year of a tear-down/re-build and are aiming to select as high as possible in the next two drafts.

We're actually aiming to compete for a playoff spot next year, and the following year we're expected to compete in the playoffs.

That's from Pierre Dorion's mouth himself.

Do you have a source that indicates that the opposite is true, and the Senators are in fact looking to get better draft picks by playing poorly?

 

[Sens]

We 100% did not need to dump condon from a hockey ops perspective, though.

Like, at all.

So the argument is not that dumping Condon had no trade value in a vacuum... but rather why did we choose "dumping Condon" as the asset we wanted in return for taking on Callahan, instead of an actual hockey asset that might have helped the rebuild?

I agree... the only person this deal benefits is Melnyk

 

[swiftwin]

Given TB's situation, they probably would have preferred to part with a draft pick than take on Condon.

Do you know that for sure? Condon only has 1 year left on his deal. Tampa could easily absorb that cap hit for 1 season and save having to move a decent draft pick.

Again, you're all getting upset over an imaginary trade that didn't happen that you don't even know if the other team would accept.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I thought they moved up a round. I guess the difference isn't big if Tampa doesn't choke this year.

We likely would have had a top 5 pick in the 6th round (156-160).
We acquired a pick that is likely to be in the bottom of the 5th round (151-155).

The swap in picks is negligible.

 

[inthewings]

Do you know that for sure? Condon only has 1 year left on his deal. Tampa could easily absorb that cap hit for 1 season and save having to move a decent draft pick.

Again, you're all getting upset over an imaginary trade that didn't happen that you don't even know if the other team would accept.

My use of the word 'probably' would have indicated to even a moderately-skilled English reader that in fact I don't know that for sure.

 

[coladin]

I have to give Dorion credit: reaching the 60M cap floor with only $42M in actual payroll expenditures is legit impressive.

It's a terrible way to rebuild the team, and everyone involved should be ashamed, but he's doing a fantastic job of saving Melnyk money.

Why is is terrible? Is the team trying to make the playoffs next year? Are they trying to free up spaces for prospects in the organization? Is it wrong, in the meantime to save money?

Best thing is for this team to get some playing time for the younger guys and be a lottery team. I don't think much else matters

 

[BatherSeason]

Why is is terrible? Is the team trying to make the playoffs next year? Are they trying to free up spaces for prospects in the organization? Is it wrong, in the meantime to save money?

Best thing is for this team to get some playing time for the younger guys and be a lottery team. I don't think much else matters

All while extending the window of contending for divisional rivals by helping them re-sign their stars, one year after refusing to trade Mike Hoffman within the division.

 

[swiftwin]

My use of the word 'probably' would have indicated to even a moderately-skilled English reader that in fact I don't know that for sure.

....that's exactly my point. Why are you getting upset over something you don't even know for sure???

 

[DaveMatthew]

Why is is terrible? Is the team trying to make the playoffs next year? Are they trying to free up spaces for prospects in the organization? Is it wrong, in the meantime to save money?

Best thing is for this team to get some playing time for the younger guys and be a lottery team. I don't think much else matters

If Smith fails to carry out the prescribed rebuilding plan of getting the team close to the playoffs in the first year, and securing a postseason position in 2020-21, it's more than likely the GM will be shown the door.

Pierre Dorion has gone on record that his expectation for this team, next year, is to be in the playoff hunt.

 

[CDN24]

So your imagination.

Got it.

The good news is you may yet see the value that Tampa would have given to not include Condon. With Condon buried they have 11.1M ca[ space to sign Point, Erne and add 1 more FW. They may look to addf another 1.3m by dumping Condon. Say Condon and a 3rd for a 5th round pick type move.

 

[OgieO]

At this point Melnyk would give Dorion a gold star and an A+ as a rating this year. It sucks for us, but PD sure does his masters bidding very well. I am glad we got rid of Condon for our young goalies, but sucks that PD has to find a way to save money with EVERY move he makes. An inexperienced (and probably not very good) GM being handcuffed like this is nuts. These are the Melnyk years...

 

[bert]

I find HF to be getting really, really tedious.

This post is exactly the point. Why pay 3 million dollars to a goalie you couldn't possibly have any less use for? So you get rid of him and get a player you don't have to pay nearly as much for.

That's not cheap, that's smart.

Carolina got a first for cap relief when they had way more dollars spent on a team that generates far less revenue than the sens. The sens moved 1 to 5 spots in the 150th pls pick in the draft for giving a division rival cap relief. This is not smart this is getting taken to the woodshed.

 

[branch]

Why is is terrible? Is the team trying to make the playoffs next year? Are they trying to free up spaces for prospects in the organization? Is it wrong, in the meantime to save money?

Best thing is for this team to get some playing time for the younger guys and be a lottery team. I don't think much else matters

I think the point they are trying to make would be to just take on Callahan and a solid asset like a 2nd/3rd rounder for nothing going the other way, instead of including Condon and nerfing the return. Take Callahan and the 2nd rounder, LTIR the player, and waive Condon for his last remaining year.

 

[Sens With Benefits]

I'm confused. Why didn't Tampa LTIR him? Does it count against the cap? Didn't Toronto just do that with Clarkson?

 

[Engineer]

I'm confused. Why didn't Tampa LTIR him? Does it count against the cap? Didn't Toronto just do that with Clarkson?

LTIR always counts against the cap.
This helps them prevent bonus overages. Toronto isn't worried about bonus overages.

 

[UnHappyDude]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SELL the TEAM!! This crap is so painful to watch over and over again!!! there no HOPE!!! GOD~!