Confirmed with Link: Sens acquire Callahan + pick for Condon + pick

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swiftwin

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I think the point they are trying to make would be to just take on Callahan and a solid asset like a 2nd/3rd rounder for nothing going the other way, instead of including Condon and nerfing the return. Take Callahan and the 2nd rounder, LTIR the player, and waive Condon for his last remaining year.

What makes you think Tampa would be willing to part with a 2nd rounder??? Callahan is LTIR material. It's not like they're dumping a healthy full cap player on us. This just give Tampa some flexibility to deal with off-season stuff. Tampa would never unload a 2nd rounder for a trade like this.
 

Viletho

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I think the point they are trying to make would be to just take on Callahan and a solid asset like a 2nd/3rd rounder for nothing going the other way, instead of including Condon and nerfing the return. Take Callahan and the 2nd rounder, LTIR the player, and waive Condon for his last remaining year.

Agree. But was the trade even on the table?

If your Brisebois, you would not give that to Dorion. You would tell him : Hey you know, that goalie, Condon. I'll take him from you to help your goalie situation. ( Brisebois add Melnyk on the phone ) You are going to save money.

Melnyk ( Heavy Breathing ): Done. It's a deal.

Dorion : Ok, no other choice, but let's swap yiur 5th to my 6th. I love adding draft pick
 
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bert

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I can't fathom a reason why most posters would prefer that the team with the lowest payroll in the NHL save an additional 2M than pick up a 3rd round pick or whatever. Are you Eugene Melnyk? Because he's literally the only person who benefits from the team's current MO.

Steve Lloyd thinks so! Thats who is talking to our fanbase right now. Huge problem with this market and part of the reason why everyone is so pissed the media doesnt even report on the team accurately its pathetic.
 

branch

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What makes you think Tampa would be willing to part with a 2nd rounder??? Callahan is LTIR material. It's not like they're dumping a healthy full cap player on us. This just give Tampa some flexibility to deal with off-season stuff. Tampa would never unload a 2nd rounder for a trade like this.
Read what ARZ got for Hossa, Pronger, Datsyuk etc (Detroit gave a 1st rounder)
Read what TOR got for Clarkson
Read what CAR got for Marleau

Lol if you think they would not have added at least a 3rd rounder
 
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Ice-Tray

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We 100% did not need to dump condon from a hockey ops perspective, though.

Like, at all.

So the argument is not that dumping Condon had no trade value in a vacuum... but rather why did we choose "dumping Condon" as the asset we wanted in return for taking on Callahan, instead of an actual hockey asset that might have helped the rebuild?

Seriously, you should stop this line. It’s just clutter and serves zero purpose.

Obviously, and I mean obviously, EM doesn’t want to pay 3million to a guy who isn’t going to play. We DID need to trade him, because EM likely insisted.

This deal is a great compromise to get a bit better of a pick in order to get rid of a player that the boss man didn’t want to pay to not play this year. PD also ended up saving his boss a little bit more money in the process, so maybe a hug and high five from EM?

Haven’t you all exhausted trying to pretend that we’re fans of a team that doesn’t have serious financial constraints? If we had a different owner, sure we wouldn’t have had to trade Condon, though burying him in the ECHL, or just telling him to stay home, is a super dick move for a franchise that needs to be known to treat its players like gold, but we have this owner, and so PD DID have to find a way to get rid of Condon’s salary.

EM is either saving his millions here and there for fyous, trying see if he can turn a profit, or making the team look attractive to a buyer. Who knows, we’ll find out soon enough.

In the end, continuing to look at the team from an indignant perspective as though it was a regularly run team making mistakes, is a waste of everyone’s time.

See it for what it is, and evaluate accordingly.
 

SpezDispenser

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Aug 15, 2007
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Carolina got a first for cap relief when they had way more dollars spent on a team that generates far less revenue than the sens. The sens moved 1 to 5 spots in the 150th pls pick in the draft for giving a division rival cap relief. This is not smart this is getting taken to the woodshed.

That's the only time that happened though and it was the filthiest overpayment by Toronto, the worst fleecing I think imaginable. We don't want Marleau to play for us and can't afford him, so someone else must take him and we'll GIVE THEM a 1st round pick. f*** me up and down, I couldn't believe my eyes.

Marleau wasn't LTIR material, he was just done. A bad signing at the time and a horrific trade to purge themselves of him. A tear comes to my eye that we couldn't have gotten that first and also by what fleecing was done by Carolina. A tear I tell ya.
 

inthewings

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....that's exactly my point. Why are you getting upset over something you don't even know for sure???

It’s like this: I don’t know for sure that I’m going to wake up tomorrow, but I’m pretty sure I am. I don’t know for sure that I’m going to drink a couple dozen beers this long weekend, but I’m pretty sure I am. And I don’t know for sure that eating Condon’s salary was the only form of compensation TB was willing to pay the team to take on Callahan, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t.

Careful attention to this team’s MO over the years has lead me to conclude that Dorion was probably (read: not a metaphysical certitude) forced to value the Condon savings above something like a draft pick.

As for why I’m upset, the team I grew up watching has been turned into the NHL’s laughingstock by the NHL’s worst owner, and moves like this (prioritizing cash savings above all else) aren’t indicative of any imminent change in our fortunes.
 

BatherSeason

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Steve Lloyd thinks so! Thats who is talking to our fanbase right now. Huge problem with this market and part of the reason why everyone is so pissed the media doesnt even report on the team accurately its pathetic.
Just listened to the Dorion interview from earlier and was embarrassed yet again by the questioning. This is the major part of why the fanbase is so divided. The coverage we get from our media is really really bad, as they try to paint a rosy pretty picture for everyone and the sad part is that a good chunk of the fanbase knows that they are full of it..
 

Ice-Tray

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Pierre Dorion has gone on record that his expectation for this team, next year, is to be in the playoff hunt.

One of the most disingenuous things I’ve seen this board do over the last two years, is to start taking GM speak literally for the purposes of accusing the GM of ‘liar liar pants on fire’.

Every single GM of every team through out time does the same things. Some of it is even joked about, like the coaches ‘kiss of death’.

This push for manufactured indignance at us poor fans being lied to by the meanie GM, is curious to say the least.
 

swiftwin

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Read what ARZ got for Hossa, Pronger, Datsyuk etc
Read what TOR got for Clarkson
Read what CAR got for Marleau

Lol if you think they would not have added at least a 3rd rounder

You don't get it, do you? Callahan is LTIR, and his salary doesn't count against the cap.

Marleau is healthy and would count against the cap, not comparable
Leafs only got a 4th rounder for taking Clarkson, but gave up Sparks, who has value
Arizona paid a draft pick to receive Pronger
Hossa trade had too many moving parts to have a direct comparison
Datsyuk is not comparable, he retired, he was not LTIR, his salary counted against the cap
 
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Tuna99

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Dorion is a Cap master. Say what you want about him but he’s managed to do some pretty interesting things with the players and trades on a budget of absolute minimum spend.

Good move to let Condon move on. Thanks for that incredible run and good luck to you.
 
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Sureves

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So your imagination.

Got it.

So you're saying Condon had non-negative value from Tampa Bay's perspective? Unless that is your position, your argument is wrong, and if that IS your position then your hockey opinion is wrong, so please pick which type of wrong you'd like to be.
 
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swiftwin

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It’s like this: I don’t know for sure that I’m going to wake up tomorrow, but I’m pretty sure I am. I don’t know for sure that I’m going to drink a couple dozen beers this long weekend, but I’m pretty sure I am. And I don’t know for sure that eating Condon’s salary was the only form of compensation TB was willing to pay the team to take on Callahan, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t.

Careful attention to this team’s MO over the years has lead me to conclude that Dorion was probably (read: not a metaphysical certitude) forced to value the Condon savings above something like a draft pick.

As for why I’m upset, the team I grew up watching has been turned into the NHL’s laughingstock by the NHL’s worst owner, and moves like this (prioritizing cash savings above all else) aren’t indicative of any imminent change in our fortunes.

Ok, so be upset at that. I'm upset about Melnyk too. Be upset about other moves forced by Melnyk.

This trade is not a reason to get upset. It actually helps us. Just because it helps Melnyk too doesn't mean we left value on the table, or it made our team worse.
 
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Ice-Tray

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It’s like this: I don’t know for sure that I’m going to wake up tomorrow, but I’m pretty sure I am. I don’t know for sure that I’m going to drink a couple dozen beers this long weekend, but I’m pretty sure I am. And I don’t know for sure that eating Condon’s salary was the only form of compensation TB was willing to pay the team to take on Callahan, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t.

Careful attention to this team’s MO over the years has lead me to conclude that Dorion was probably (read: not a metaphysical certitude) forced to value the Condon savings above something like a draft pick.

As for why I’m upset, the team I grew up watching has been turned into the NHL’s laughingstock by the NHL’s worst owner, and moves like this (prioritizing cash savings above all else) aren’t indicative of any imminent change in our fortunes.

Ebb and flow dog, but I definitely hear you.

Look, Chicago, the leafs, heck even the clippers came out of the dark cloud of a terrible ownership group.

We’ll come out of it too. Beyond boycotting there is nothing really to be done. Might as well take a step back from the wreckage and observe the goings on from a safe but interested distance.

Can’t let EM take the reigns over our emotions as well.
 

swiftwin

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Dorion is a Cap master. Say what you want about him but he’s managed to do some pretty interesting things with the players and trades on a budget of absolute minimum spend.

Yup. His Brassard move to Pittsburgh was so genius that the NHL initially rejected it because they thought he was circumventing the cap. They eventually accepted it and we walked away with a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Gustavsson for Brassard (who got traded for a measley 3rd a year later).
 
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inthewings

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Ok, so be upset at that. I'm upset about Melnyk too. Be upset about other moves forced by Melnyk.

This trade is not a reason to get upset. It actually helps us. Just because it helps Melnyk too doesn't mean we left value on the table, or it made our team worse.

The trade doesn’t actually help the product at all though. Its only function is to save the team cash while they already have the lowest payroll in the NHL.

If not for Melnyk, I believe it’s highly probable they would have received an actual asset in the deal. Every transaction is influenced by the unprecedented financial constraints.
 

Micklebot

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fwiw, I doubt Callahan's insurance payments have kicked in yet. In past reports that doesn't happen until the player has missed 30 games, and Callahan was still playing at the end of this past season.

If that's the case then Ottawa should end up paying Callahan about $2.3m. So a net savings of $700k without Condon.

Ok, so ~2.3 on Callahan instead of having some foresight and buying out Condon for 2 mil, great cost cutting move Dorion,

Looks like we just spent an extra 3ook by doing this trade instead of buying out Condon during the buyout window. So 300k to upgrade a late round pick one round?
 

Ice-Tray

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Dorion is a Cap master. Say what you want about him but he’s managed to do some pretty interesting things with the players and trades on a budget of absolute minimum spend.

Good move to let Condon move on. Thanks for that incredible run and good luck to you.

It’s funny, he’s gaining a niche GM skill that no other GMs have or need to have.

If he ever gets a chance to build a team under regular constraints it would be neat to see what he could do.
 
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swiftwin

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The trade doesn’t actually help the product at all though. Its only function is to save the team cash while they already have the lowest payroll in the NHK.

Bullshit. It obviously clears up a goalie logjam we have.
 

Alex1234

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It’s funny, he’s gaining a niche GM skill that no other GMs have or need to have.

If he ever gets a chance to build a team under regular constraints it would be neat to see what he could do.
It’s funny, he’s gaining a niche GM skill that no other GMs have or need to have.

If he ever gets a chance to build a team under regular constraints it would be neat to see what he could do.
What makes you think its not regular constraints here?
Every GM goes through ruff patches
 

swiftwin

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What makes you think its not regular constraints here?

Are you suggesting that Melnyk is a good owner that is letting us spend to the cap, and that Dorion is the one making all these cost cutting moves for no reason?
 
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Ice-Tray

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Ok, so ~2.3 on Callahan instead of having some foresight and buying out Condon for 2 mil, great cost cutting move Dorion,

Looks like we just spent an extra 3ook by doing this trade instead of buying out Condon during the buyout window. So 300k to upgrade a late round pick one round?

I think you need to dial it back for now, even Mouser isn’t positive that there isn’t any retroactive compensation, so those numbers are just guesses at the moment.

Having said that, I think most would agree that moving up for only a bit of cash is a fine move any way you slice it, in a vacuum.

We can’t be slammed for trading picks for cash and then also cash for picks at the same time.
 
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inthewings

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Bull****. It obviously clears up a goalie logjam we have.

Again, the logjam goes away if the team isn’t concerned about saving $1-2M or whatever the savings would have been. The logjam isn’t a distinct problem from the salary he was owed. They’re the same problem.
 
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