Confirmed with Link: Sens acquire Callahan + pick for Condon + pick

[Ice-Tray]

What makes you think its not regular constraints here?
Every GM goes through ruff patches

I think PD is dealing with restraints far beyond what other GMs deal with.

Do folks not go on about EM being the worst owner in pro sports?

 

[coladin]

Why was the goal to get rid of Condon?

We could have easily buried him in the ECHL, or loaned him to another AHL team, if we needed to create space for younger goalies. His $2.4 million cap hit was negligible, considering how much cap room we have.

We could then have still taken Callahan off the Lightning's hands, while extracting more value (probably a 3rd round pick), if we didn't require them to take any salary back.

Why to any of your suggestions other than getting rid of him. Are we really trying to keep Condon in the organization?

 

[Micklebot]

Bull****. It obviously clears up a goalie logjam we have.

If Condon isn't in the plans, we have no obligation to play him anywhere. We could loan him to europe or just tell him to stay home.

The Goalie logjam is a red herring, there is no problem in need of solving there to be spoken off. The problem in need of solving is his paycheck and his paycheck alone.

We chose not to buy him out for 2 mil (assuming he was eligible, there is a chance he was not medically cleared yet I suppose though he was practicing with Belleville at the end of the season).

 

[swiftwin]

Again, the logjam goes away if the team isn’t concerned about saving $1-2M or whatever the savings would have been.

How so? Buyout? Why buy him out and receive nothing in return, when you can get someone else to take him instead?

Option A) Pay to get rid of Condon
Option B) Get someone else to pay Condon to get rid of him (as well as get a tiny draft pick improvement)

Why wouldn't you go option b???

 

[coladin]

All while extending the window of contending for divisional rivals by helping them re-sign their stars, one year after refusing to trade Mike Hoffman within the division.

Divisional rival? Who? Tampa? Are you kidding

 

[Alex1234]

I think PD is dealing with restraints far beyond what other GMs deal with.

Do folks not go on about EM being the worst owner in pro sports?

Maybe they are lying?
Not a big deal

 

[Viletho]

How so? Buyout? Why buy him out and receive nothing in return, when you can get someone else to take him instead?

Option A) Pay to get rid of Condon
Option B) Get someone else to pay Condon to get rid of him (as well as get a tiny draft pick improvement)

Why wouldn't you go option b???

The only argument that could be made to not go for option B is IF there was another trade on the table like Callahan + 3rd/4th?* for a draft pick and then we asked them instead to take Condon.

Which, we will probably never know.

Then it would have been better to loan, keep or buy Condon out instead of taking that trade. But, we won't know

 

[DaveMatthew]

One of the most disingenuous things I’ve seen this board do over the last two years, is to start taking GM speak literally for the purposes of accusing the GM of ‘liar liar pants on fire’.

Every single GM of every team through out time does the same things. Some of it is even joked about, like the coaches ‘kiss of death’.

This push for manufactured indignance at us poor fans being lied to by the meanie GM, is curious to say the least.

Well you can't have it both ways.

When Pierre Dorion says that he really tried to sign Mark Stone, Erik Karlsson and Matt Duchene and made fair market offers, many on this board use that as irrefutable proof that the organization was not at fault for them leaving.

But then, when Pierre Dorion says he thinks this team is good enough to compete for the playoffs, those same people say that "you can't take everything literally."

 

[BatherSeason]

Divisional rival? Who? Tampa? Are you kidding

OK, lets not trade Mike Hoffman in our division because reasons, but lets help Tampa and Toronto by providing cap relief to sign their RFAs. And yes, during the FYOUS, Tampa is supposed to be a divisional rival.

 

[senators101]

lol how much of actual salary is this owner actually paying out of his pockets?

Tree fiddy. (Never been more applicable)

 

[Micklebot]

I think you need to dial it back for now, even Mouser isn’t positive that there isn’t any retroactive compensation, so those numbers are just guesses at the moment.

Having said that, I think most would agree that moving up for only a bit of cash is a fine move any way you slice it, in a vacuum.

We can’t be slammed for trading picks for cash and then also cash for picks at the same time.

Retroactive payments would be an outlier in insurance contracts, so while it's possible, it's unlikely.

Moving up what will likely be a dozen spots given that we are likely to finish at the bottom of the league and TB the top is really not something that makes a lot of sense when you're talking about the 5th round.

The reason I am criticizing the trade is because we seem to lack any sort of plan.

If we wanted to ship off Condon to save money, buying him out was a better option.
If we wanted to move up in the 5th round of the draft (lol) there are better ways of doing that too.

The only way this makes sense in my mind is if Condon was ineligible to be bought out due to injury, but he was apparently healthy in April.

 

[swiftwin]

Well you can't have it both ways.

When Pierre Dorion says that he really tried to sign Mark Stone, Erik Karlsson and Matt Duchene and made fair market offers, many on this board use that as irrefutable proof that the organization was not at fault for them leaving.

But then, when Pierre Dorion says he thinks this team is good enough to compete for the playoffs, those same people say that "you can't take everything literally."

What? No. It's the opposite. It's the anti-Dorion crowd saying this.

Dorion said the goal was to compete for the playoffs (ie. not make the playoffs, but maybe finish somewhere 15-25), which is a perfectly reasonable goal to set. Yet everyone here is taking it as if he's saying we need to make the playoffs next year.

 

[coladin]

Pierre Dorion has gone on record that his expectation for this team, next year, is to be in the playoff hunt.

And?

Did you expect him to say otherwise? That is as basic a goal that there is. If you are trying to build a legal case or something then, yes, you have made a valid point. But this is professional sports and that is the norm. I am sorry you took it so literally

 

[Ice-Tray]

If Condon isn't in the plans, we have no obligation to play him anywhere. We could loan him to europe or just tell him to stay home.

The Goalie logjam is a red herring, there is no problem in need of solving there to be spoken off. The problem in need of solving is his paycheck and his paycheck alone.

We chose not to buy him out for 2 mil (assuming he was eligible, there is a chance he was not medically cleared yet I suppose though he was practicing with Belleville at the end of the season).

You don’t treat players that way dude. We can’t just loan him to Europe or tell him to stay home.

Condon also would like a chance to play, and perhaps even earn a new contract somewhere.

Makes me chuckle when people advocate treating players this way on the one hand, and then also complain that UFAs don’t want to sign with us.

I love how your obvious solution is just to be a giant dick and try and hamper a player’s career instead of making a trade that STILL benefits the club as well as the player.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

One of the most disingenuous things I’ve seen this board do over the last two years, is to start taking GM speak literally for the purposes of accusing the GM of ‘liar liar pants on fire’.

Every single GM of every team through out time does the same things. Some of it is even joked about, like the coaches ‘kiss of death’.

This push for manufactured indignance at us poor fans being lied to by the meanie GM, is curious to say the least.

So fans shouldn't believe when he says that Chabot is staying for this rebuild? That the core we have now are staying for the rebuild?

 

[coladin]

I think the point they are trying to make would be to just take on Callahan and a solid asset like a 2nd/3rd rounder for nothing going the other way, instead of including Condon and nerfing the return. Take Callahan and the 2nd rounder, LTIR the player, and waive Condon for his last remaining year.

Sure , that could be another way to do it. But, in the grand scheme of things, another 3rd or 4th added to the pile is just more of the same...and you hope they all pan out, right? But, Condon is gone, which is great. I think the return is absolutey fine , and many are just using the trade as another reason to make it a big story.

I am not wasting any energy on Mike Condon, if you know what I mean. he is finished and we have goalies that need to play, so saving money for something else that needs money is good in my books. I know, people will laugh at that last line about spending money, but at this point and this juncture of the team, it is not important to spend on the present.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

How is a window going to open when we spend less than most MLS teams? Did Toronto try to save money when they were missing the playoffs most years like we are? No. Has any team done what we have done? Maybe Arizona. Maybe. And they've stopped doing that. We have better ticket prices, TV deals and fan support than Arizona.

It's one thing to be cautious with money... that's not happening here.

The point is you can't compare the NHL franchise operated in the largest hockey market on the planet, with another NHL franchise in, if not the smallest, one of the smallest markets in the NHL .......at any point in their various stages.

 

[DaveMatthew]

What? No. It's the opposite. It's the anti-Dorion crowd saying this.

Dorion said the goal was to compete for the playoffs (ie. not make the playoffs, but maybe finish somewhere 15-25), which is a perfectly reasonable goal to set. Yet everyone here is taking it as if he's saying we need to make the playoffs next year.

If you're in 25th you're not competing for the playoffs.

And my response was to the people saying that the organization's goal is to get as high a draft pick as possible next year, when the GM has gone on record saying that the "pain" of the rebuild is already over and he expects the team to compete as soon as next season, and then be a playoff team in 2021.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

The point is you can't compare the NHL franchise operated in the largest hockey market on the planet, with another NHL franchise in, if not the smallest, one of the smallest markets in the NHL .......at any point in their various stages.

What about New Jersey, who’s having probably the best offseason in the league? Their revenues have generally been lower than ours over the years.

An NHL team isn’t supposed to be a primary revenue stream. Melnyk can’t hang with the rest.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Well you can't have it both ways.

When Pierre Dorion says that he really tried to sign Mark Stone, Erik Karlsson and Matt Duchene and made fair market offers, many on this board use that as irrefutable proof that the organization was not at fault for them leaving.

But then, when Pierre Dorion says he thinks this team is good enough to compete for the playoffs, those same people say that "you can't take everything literally."

It’s true, you have to apply a dose of common sense as well used to do in better times.

When the team suggests that they offered fair contracts, and the players come out and agree with the sentiment, or say nothing to refute the idea, you can pretty much accept it and move on. Any differing opinion would just be personal speculation at that point, not based on any information provided by either side, in fact it would contradict both sides in some cases (Duchene for sure).

As for the GM saying that he expects the team to be better and start competing for a playoff spot, I think you can take that with a grain of salt. It’s not as if GMs typically come out and say that they are likely to suck this year, and are gunning for a top pick.

One of their jobs is to blow sunshine up everyone’s ass, fans, media, and especially the players. It’s nice to hear the GM day he has confidence in your squad, even if you know you’ll be in tough this year.

One thing is for sure, irrefutable proof is not available for ANYTHING related to why we all chat about. Generally speaking we all hand wrong over rumours and speculation at best.

Good times in the off season!

 

[inthewings]

How so? Buyout? Why buy him out and receive nothing in return, when you can get someone else to take him instead?

Option A) Pay to get rid of Condon
Option B) Get someone else to pay Condon to get rid of him (as well as get a tiny draft pick improvement)

Why wouldn't you go option b???

Option A) also includes an asset from TB in this hypothetical.

 

[swiftwin]

If you're in 25th you're not competing for the playoffs.

And my response was to the people saying that the organization's goal is to get as high a draft pick as possible next year, when the GM has gone on record saying that the "pain" of the rebuild is already over and he expects the team to compete as soon as next season, and then be a playoff team in 2021.

Which makes sense. The "pain" was losing Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, etc.

The organization's goal this season is to develop the players we have, for which we need to set a reasonable goal, like trying to compete for the playoffs. Developing and growing our current group of players is far far more important that a couple percentage chance at increasing a draft pick by a few spots.

 

[DaveMatthew]

And?

Did you expect him to say otherwise? That is as basic a goal that there is. If you are trying to build a legal case or something then, yes, you have made a valid point. But this is professional sports and that is the norm. I am sorry you took it so literally

Yes, I would expect him to say otherwise. I would expect him to say that the goal next year is to develop our young players and establish a culture, not compete for a playoff spot. That is a reasonable goal.

But it's good to know we can pick and choose when Dorion is "telling the truth" and when he's "stretching the truth, because what do you expect him to do!".

When he's talking about the offers he made to keep our players, he's "telling the truth", but when he's talking about the team's prospects next year, he's not. Sure.

For the record, I think Dorion's thoughts change on a daily basis, and there is no plan of any kind, so I don't believe anything he says. For him, every day is groundhog day.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Which makes sense. The "pain" was losing Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, etc.

The organization's goal this season is to develop the players we have, for which we need to set a reasonable goal, like trying to compete for the playoffs. Developing and growing our current group of players is far far more important that a couple percentage chance at increasing a draft pick by a few spots.

Well no, the pain is losing games.

And this will be the first full season where we don't have any of Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, etc. So really, the pain is just beginning.

Trading those players was the easy part. Filling the holes you created by getting rid of them? That's the challenge, and that's what a rebuild is.

All we've done is tear down. We haven't even started rebuilding anything.

Competing for the playoffs, with this roster, is in no way a reasonable goal. This is, by far, the worst team in the East.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Once again, Condon was on this roster because of the contract offered to him by Eugene Melnyk and Pierre Dorion.

You're right.

And the split second after they signed Nillson to a contract, they did not want Condon on the roster, and they've now accomplished that.


I know my boss just hates it, when I make an executive decision that accomplishes something that needs to done, and saves the company money at the same time.