Sportsnet: Senators’ Dorion talks team’s payroll, off-season moves and 2019-20 optimism

[Ice-Tray]

I guess if you prefer quantity over quality, you could say its stacked. Our big problem is quality. We could have all our prospects pan out and we'd still only have a team that would have to fight till the last day of the NHL schedule to make the playoffs. I'd trade every single one of our prospects not named Batherson for a legit young #1 C and RD.

I don’t think any team has a quantity of top quality, that’s not really possible. You at most have one or two, and they are generally already in the NHL, like us with White, Tkachuk, and Chabot.

What you have are high quality prospects that aren’t NHL ready, but look really good in the leagues that they play in, and yes, we have lots of those. The reality is that a top NHL team maybe has one or two super stars, and then has to be comprised of 20 other good to really good players. Having a lot of solid NHL prospects in your stable is stacked in my opinion. ‘Reasonable’ expectations of current potential would see us set in net and on D in the near future, and our two biggest drafts are yet to come.

Branstrom is about as highly touted a prospect as you get not playing in the NHL, I’m not saying he is the top, I’m saying that he has elite prospect status, whether you like it or not, as is Batherson and Brown based on excellent AHL seasons. Hog had an excellent growth season, and we have two other highly touted goalie prospects behind him.

I think you tend to be off on your Sens prospect evaluations, and undervalue our prospect routinely, seemingly putting a higher priority on bashing management, than on legitimacy. Of course when you are down on all Sens prospects, you’re bound to be correct when a typical number don’t make it. When you’re wrong, well, you simply shovel that under the rug and move on.

You can’t have a team full of #1s, you need a solid middle six to win championships, and a solid D core and goaltending. We have the pieces for a potentially top tier defence and net, and need a few more top tier pieces up front, or guys to exceed expectations. There is more to be done, but it’s damn solid for year one of the rebuild, thanks to the scouting team and management (PD rolling solo).

There is absolutely no need to trade away any of our solid prospects for #1 anything given that we already have a top d man, a potential number 1-2, and several top 4 potential guys. As for up front, we have a crazy amount of picks next draft to fill those voids without pillaging all of the promising players we have. We already have the heart and soul captain-type player who plays exactly how the team will play as a whole; that guy is just as hard to find. Austin Matthews is excellent, but he’s no Crosby. That team still needs a leader, instead it has a hunch of kids looking to take as big a slice of the pie as possible above all else, and no character to keep them all in line. I’m not impressed with that team and see them bowing out in the first over and over again.

Given that you staunchly argued that BT was a third liner, I doubt that you’ll ever be satisfied with our prospect group, it wouldn’t really be possible given your evaluation standards.

I can’t wait to to watch us crushing the leafs again. It’s funny, we’re actually building the kind of team they were back in the day when they were devouring our will as fans.

 

[InTkachukWeTrust]

Not many posts I can agree with you, this one is easy and I think you are 100% correct!

I'm sure Tkachuk, Batherson and White will be fantastic players, not to sure about Brown but he has at least the tools...so highly possible as well.
The big question is for whom are those guys playing in 3-4 years, my guess is only Brown will be left on the Sens as he will not reach his potential.

I don’t expect everyone to agree with me and im always open to debate!

I don’t know why (because I’ve lost a lot of faith in the franchise) but I do think these players will get signed.

 

[Larionov]

Looks like a lot of quantity, but not quality. Brannstrom is the only real quality piece that we got in return for any of those guys. Everything else is just lottery tickets.

We should have got a Brannstrom-esque player for Duchene and EK as well, but PD cratered his leverage and was dealing from a position of weakness in every deal.

Why did we get a quality piece like Brannstrom back in the Stone deal? Answer - because Stone was willing to sign an extension with his new club.

Unfortunately for us, both 95 and 65 wanted to take it right to the edge of free agency and call their shot. That's their right as veterans under the CBA. Therefore, they were traded as rentals, which limits the return. That's just the reality of today's NHL. In 65's case, he was a deluxe, year long rental, which was reflected in our return, but he was still a rental. (To Dorion's credit, he at least built in some protection in case 65 ultimately did re-up with his new team.) We tried to have 65 sign an extension with his new team, but he and his agent made it clear they weren't interested in that. No one is giving up a blue chip prospect for a rental - no one. There hasn't been a trade in the last ten years where a team has given up a bona fide blue chipper for a rental.

Now, I understand fully that Melnyk is the reason why EK wanted out - totally get it. I'm just saying that under the confines of what Dorion faced, he wasn't going to hit a home run with 95 or 65 like he did with Stone. He tried his best, trying to get Glass out of Vegas and Heiskinen (sp?) out of Dallas for 65, but in both instances he was rebuffed by that team's GM.

 

[InTkachukWeTrust]

I don’t think any team has a quantity of top quality, that’s not really possible. You at most have one or two, and they are generally already in the NHL, like us with White, Tkachuk, and Chabot.

What you have are high quality prospects that aren’t NHL ready, but look really good in the leagues that they play in, and yes, we have lots of those. The reality is that a top NHL team maybe has one or two super stars, and then has to be comprised of 20 other good to really good players. Having a lot of solid NHL prospects in your stable is stacked in my opinion. ‘Reasonable’ expectations of current potential would see us set in net and on D in the near future, and our two biggest drafts are yet to come.

Branstrom is about as highly touted a prospect as you get not playing in the NHL, I’m not saying he is the top, I’m saying that he has elite prospect status, whether you like it or not, as is Batherson and Brown based on excellent AHL seasons. Hog had an excellent growth season, and we have two other highly touted goalie prospects behind him.

I think you tend to be off on your Sens prospect evaluations, and undervalue our prospect routinely, seemingly putting a higher priority on bashing management, than on legitimacy. Of course when you are down on all Sens prospects, you’re bound to be correct when a typical number don’t make it. When you’re wrong, well, you simply shovel that under the rug and move on.

You can’t have a team full of #1s, you need a solid middle six to win championships, and a solid D core and goaltending. We have the pieces for a potentially top tier defence and net, and need a few more top tier pieces up front, or guys to exceed expectations. There is more to be done, but it’s damn solid for year one of the rebuild, thanks to the scouting team and management (PD rolling solo).

There is absolutely no need to trade away any of our solid prospects for #1 anything given that we already have a top d man, a potential number 1-2, and several top 4 potential guys. As for up front, we have a crazy amount of picks next draft to fill those voids without pillaging all of the promising players we have. We already have the heart and soul captain-type player who plays exactly how the team will play as a whole; that guy is just as hard to find. Austin Matthews is excellent, but he’s no Crosby. That team still needs a leader, instead it has a hunch of kids looking to take as big a slice of the pie as possible above all else, and no character to keep them all in line. I’m not impressed with that team and see them bowing out in the first over and over again.

Given that you staunchly argued that BT was a third liner, I doubt that you’ll ever be satisfied with our prospect group, it wouldn’t really be possible given your evaluation standards.

I can’t wait to to watch us crushing the leafs again. It’s funny, we’re actually building the kind of team they were back in the day when they were devouring our will as fans.

Couldn’t agree more with this

 

[Larionov]

Given that you staunchly argued that BT was a third liner, I doubt that you’ll ever be satisfied with our prospect group, it wouldn’t really be possible given your evaluation standards.

Brady is a third liner? On Team USA at the 2022 Olympics, maybe. In the NHL, that kid is a top six forward for the next dozen years. Anyone claiming that he is a third liner is either delusional, or being deliberately argumentative. That kid is a stud, a soon-to-be 30 goal scorer who also hits, checks, leads and agitates. He scored 22 goals as a 19 year old on a terrible team - are you kidding me? Finding a player like that is like finding an albino bear in the forest - just doesn't happen every day.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Where's this stacked cupboard im reading about from a few here, I project at the moment that we have hopefully 2 solid top 4 L d-men and 1 top line ish L winger secured for the rebuild...add one more for a couple years after this dead man walking season coming up...where are the other 3 or 4 at minimum other needed pieces? Won't get into the fact that the majority of these guys, should they come close to potential, will not have a home within Eugene's dollar store horse and pony clown show, and you can forget supplementing anything with UFA's.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Why did we get a quality piece like Brannstrom back in the Stone deal? Answer - because Stone was willing to sign an extension with his new club.

Unfortunately for us, both 95 and 65 wanted to take it right to the edge of free agency and call their shot. That's their right as veterans under the CBA. Therefore, they were traded as rentals, which limits the return. That's just the reality of today's NHL. In 65's case, he was a deluxe, year long rental, which was reflected in our return, but he was still a rental. (To Dorion's credit, he at least built in some protection in case 65 ultimately did re-up with his new team.) We tried to have 65 sign an extension with his new team, but he and his agent made it clear they weren't interested in that. No one is giving up a blue chip prospect for a rental - no one. There hasn't been a trade in the last ten years where a team has given up a bona fide blue chipper for a rental.

Now, I understand fully that Melnyk is the reason why EK wanted out - totally get it. I'm just saying that under the confines of what Dorion faced, he wasn't going to hit a home run with 95 or 65 like he did with Stone. He tried his best, trying to get Glass out of Vegas and Heiskinen (sp?) out of Dallas for 65, but in both instances he was rebuffed by that team's GM.

Could Pierre not have done some critical thinking given his teams current circumstances and the impossible budget he was handed down and perhaps acted earlier than the final hours for both? Assuming the budget was known prior to the Duchene deal that's a no brainer by about everyone to not pull that one off. Then with EK again reading the market and your dictated budget, surely it doesn't take a genius to realize there wasn't a chance in hell the guy was staying and thus pull the trade at literally 3 to 4 better times prior to the inevitable freebie giveaway?

 

[JD1]

The vets brought in this year are there to help reach the cap floor. Nothing else.

I also like how Batherson who's only played 20 NHL games is already pencilled in as having played 300games... I'll bet you that if they have a bunch of 200+ game guys at that point, then it's likely because they had no choice and they were the cheapest option available and not necessarily have to do with talent.

Also, when was the last time the Sens drafted/acquired a prospect who became a legitimate starter for the team? I just checked and since 1992 the Sens have drafted 2 goalies who've had NHL success (Ray Emery - RIP and Robin Lehner). Of the 2, Lehner is a legitimate NHL starter but the most he played with Ottawa was 36g in a season. So even while here he was a backup and only really put things together the past few seasons. So it's really optimistic to think one of the current goalies will turn into a legitimate starter on any NHL team.

I think people are really overestimating what this organization has with respect to prospects. They have a lot of decent pieces that would make a great supporting cast, but no game breakers or legitimate stars like Karlsson and Stone.

I don't think this team has a plan for the future other than spend as little money as possible TODAY. If the team legitimately wanted to build a winning team, they'd at least hire a front office. At this point, the Gatineau Olympiques and Ottawa 67's have a better front offices than the Senators.

I guess you missed the parting my post about 5 years from now. There are 410 games over 5 seasons.

I don't think anything in my post was a stretch. Everything you read suggests we have a very deep pool of Fs and Ds and given that, 4cto 5 years from now we will have a whack of guys 23 to 26 years old with a couple to a few hundred games under their belt. That is just plain basic math. Unless they all bomb.

On the goalie front, on the one hand I agree with you, on the other we have never been as deep as we are at that position.

I think Chabot is or will be by the conclusion of next season a legitimate star. As for Stone, I don't know if anyone we have in the prospect pool will reach Stone's height, but we do have several prospects that are as or further advanced than Stone at a similar age.

And of course if we don't pay to keep them then it us only a matter of time before we become like the expos and leave town.

 

[Larionov]

Could Pierre not have done some critical thinking given his teams current circumstances and the impossible budget he was handed down and perhaps acted earlier than the final hours for both? Assuming the budget was known prior to the Duchene deal that's a no brainer by about everyone to not pull that one off. Then with EK again reading the market and your dictated budget, surely it doesn't take a genius to realize there wasn't a chance in hell the guy was staying and thus pull the trade at literally 3 to 4 better times prior to the inevitable freebie giveaway?

You may recall that they tried to trade 65 at the deadline in 2018, hoping to maximize the return by giving the receiving team two playoff runs with him under his current contract. At that time, the focus appeared to be on Vegas, Dallas and Tampa. As we can all see, it didn't get done. Now, did a Vegas deal get torpedoed by an attempt to attach Bobby Ryan to it? We'll never know. The truth is, though, that even with two playoff runs instead of one, none of those three teams were willing to cough up a blue chip young talent. The league has changed - everyone values their young, controllable talent more than ever, and is very wary of taking on older players, guys approaching free agency. If there was a vastly better deal out there that he should have taken, I'd love to hear about it. It's easy to say he should have done better - it gets harder when you talk specific teams and players.

I have plenty of criticisms of Dorion and moves he has made, but the notion that there was a wildly better trade out there for 65 or 95 seems a bit unfair.

Oh, and for those who say that we never should have acquired 95, fair enough, but then what to do with Turris? He needed a new home before the 2018 deadline, and was a pending free agent. The way his game was heading downhill, we likely wouldn't have gotten much for him at the deadline. I'd argue that the huge loser in that three way trade was Nashville, now stuck with Turris for five more years at $6 mil per. At least we ultimately got a couple of prospects out of the deal in a roundabout way...

 

[Cosmix]

I disagree with your evaluation of our prospects.

Imo Tkachuk Batherson White Brown will be fantastic players in the next 3 or 4 years.

I doubt all 4 of them will turn out to be extraordinarily great; rather I think it is remote. Perhaps 1 or 2 might be very good players. My standard is likely higher than yours, having seen some of the truly great players over the years such as Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Hull x2, etc.

 

[Knave]

You may recall that they tried to trade 65 at the deadline in 2018, hoping to maximize the return by giving the receiving team two playoff runs with him under his current contract. At that time, the focus appeared to be on Vegas, Dallas and Tampa. As we can all see, it didn't get done. Now, did a Vegas deal get torpedoed by an attempt to attach Bobby Ryan to it? We'll never know. The truth is, though, that even with two playoff runs instead of one, none of those three teams were willing to cough up a blue chip young talent. The league has changed - everyone values their young, controllable talent more than ever, and is very wary of taking on older players, guys approaching free agency. If there was a vastly better deal out there that he should have taken, I'd love to hear about it. It's easy to say he should have done better - it gets harder when you talk specific teams and players.

I have plenty of criticisms of Dorion and moves he has made, but the notion that there was a wildly better trade out there for 65 or 95 seems a bit unfair.

Oh, and for those who say that we never should have acquired 95, fair enough, but then what to do with Turris? He needed a new home before the 2018 deadline, and was a pending free agent. The way his game was heading downhill, we likely wouldn't have gotten much for him at the deadline. I'd argue that the huge loser in that three way trade was Nashville, now stuck with Turris for five more years at $6 mil per. At least we ultimately got a couple of prospects out of the deal in a roundabout way...

If we were trying to rebuild for a full year before Dorion claims to have started rebuilding... Why would we trade a pick we know will be a lottery pick for a guy entering the back half of his prime.

That makes Dorion look worse not better.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I guess you missed the parting my post about 5 years from now. There are 410 games over 5 seasons.

I don't think anything in my post was a stretch. Everything you read suggests we have a very deep pool of Fs and Ds and given that, 4cto 5 years from now we will have a whack of guys 23 to 26 years old with a couple to a few hundred games under their belt. That is just plain basic math. Unless they all bomb.

On the goalie front, on the one hand I agree with you, on the other we have never been as deep as we are at that position.

I think Chabot is or will be by the conclusion of next season a legitimate star. As for Stone, I don't know if anyone we have in the prospect pool will reach Stone's height, but we do have several prospects that are as or further advanced than Stone at a similar age.

And of course if we don't pay to keep them then it us only a matter of time before we become like the expos and leave town.

There was a time when we had Ray Emery, Mathieu Chouinard, Simon Lajeunesse and Martin Prusek in the pipeline.

We thought that out of those 4, one would for sure be a future #1. Emery came closest, but fizzled out.

That group had more pedigree than the one we have now.

Then we had Lehner and Bishop, who again, were more highly touted than anyone we have now. We made the wrong choice.

All this to say is that goalies are a crapshoot, and every single guy we have has big questions.

 

[Upgrayedd]

You may recall that they tried to trade 65 at the deadline in 2018, hoping to maximize the return by giving the receiving team two playoff runs with him under his current contract. At that time, the focus appeared to be on Vegas, Dallas and Tampa. As we can all see, it didn't get done. Now, did a Vegas deal get torpedoed by an attempt to attach Bobby Ryan to it? We'll never know. The truth is, though, that even with two playoff runs instead of one, none of those three teams were willing to cough up a blue chip young talent. The league has changed - everyone values their young, controllable talent more than ever, and is very wary of taking on older players, guys approaching free agency. If there was a vastly better deal out there that he should have taken, I'd love to hear about it. It's easy to say he should have done better - it gets harder when you talk specific teams and players.

I have plenty of criticisms of Dorion and moves he has made, but the notion that there was a wildly better trade out there for 65 or 95 seems a bit unfair.

Oh, and for those who say that we never should have acquired 95, fair enough, but then what to do with Turris? He needed a new home before the 2018 deadline, and was a pending free agent. The way his game was heading downhill, we likely wouldn't have gotten much for him at the deadline. I'd argue that the huge loser in that three way trade was Nashville, now stuck with Turris for five more years at $6 mil per. At least we ultimately got a couple of prospects out of the deal in a roundabout way...

I was told that indeed Bobby Ryan's contract was stapled to any potential EK65 trade early on which would make sense considering there was no deal there and the asset that is EK65. attaching BR was an internal choice which I personally give no sympathy too Gene or Pierre. I believe we would have at least gotten 1 strong real piece as oppose to the late first should he have been traded at the proper time. Turris: I would have moved out for the highest picks available, again assuming the budget was dictated previously.

From what im seeing the main goal is to minimize salary as much as possible while stringing the fans along indeterminately.

No joke, given the current budget constraints, I believe the bets thing to do going forward is to trade anything of value at the respective appropriate time and keep repeating in order to have ready and available assets should a real owner come along.

 

[Ice-Tray]

If we were trying to rebuild for a full year before Dorion claims to have started rebuilding... Why would we trade a pick we know will be a lottery pick for a guy entering the back half of his prime.

That makes Dorion look worse not better.

We were obviously trying to make a run for it after the ECF year, and potentially our last year with EK.

Duchene was a ‘going for it’ deal, not a rebuild deal.

Once EK made it clear that he wasn’t negotiating an extension, we all bore witness to a full year of what rebuild trades look like.

 

[DaveMatthew]

You can’t have a team full of #1s, you need a solid middle six to win championships, and a solid D core and goaltending. We have the pieces for a potentially top tier defence and net, and need a few more top tier pieces up front, or guys to exceed expectations. There is more to be done, but it’s damn solid for year one of the rebuild, thanks to the scouting team and management (PD rolling solo).

The only net new "adds" to the rebuild in the last 12 months were Brannstrom, Thomsen and Norris. (Plus a bunch magic beans like Abramov and Balcers). Considering Thomsen was a huge downgrade from our original pick, you can't really even include him.

Considering we traded Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Hoffman and Dzingel in the last 12 months (3 legitimate all-stars and 2 top 6 forwards), that's a terrible start to the "rebuild".

Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Bernard-Docker, Hogberg, etc were here before we started "rebuilding".

 

[Ice-Tray]

There was a time when we had Ray Emery, Mathieu Chouinard, Simon Lajeunesse and Martin Prusek in the pipeline.

We thought that out of those 4, one would for sure be a future #1. Emery came closest, but fizzled out.

That group had more pedigree than the one we have now.

Then we had Lehner and Bishop, who again, were more highly touted than anyone we have now. We made the wrong choice.

All this to say is that goalies are a crapshoot, and every single guy we have has big questions.

Lol, no that group did not have the same perigee as we have now. Not close.

Bishop is about the same level as Hog right now, hence why we got him for a second round pick. Then we have two very highly rated prospects behind him, and a bit of a wild card in D’Accord.

We have never had this level of goaltending potential. We’ll see what pans out.

Goalies are a crap shoot sure, but the odds are greater when you have a bunch of highly touted prospects, than not. We’ve done the bargain bin shopping for tenders for decades, and it’s always been a weak point for us. Andy was by far the best goalie we have ever had minus a year of Hasek.

I’m ready for us to stack the position with our own prospects and look to develop a number one of our own.

 

[Rand0m]

I guess you missed the parting my post about 5 years from now. There are 410 games over 5 seasons.

I don't think anything in my post was a stretch. Everything you read suggests we have a very deep pool of Fs and Ds and given that, 4cto 5 years from now we will have a whack of guys 23 to 26 years old with a couple to a few hundred games under their belt. That is just plain basic math. Unless they all bomb.

On the goalie front, on the one hand I agree with you, on the other we have never been as deep as we are at that position.

I think Chabot is or will be by the conclusion of next season a legitimate star. As for Stone, I don't know if anyone we have in the prospect pool will reach Stone's height, but we do have several prospects that are as or further advanced than Stone at a similar age.

And of course if we don't pay to keep them then it us only a matter of time before we become like the expos and leave town.

I think we have a deep prospect pool in the “quantity” sense but that it’s very light in the “quality” sense.

Getting a bunch of 23-26yo 3rd & 4th liners from drafting isn’t how you build a winning team. These kind of players can be acquired for cheap through free agency.

I’m also not saying all of them will bomb, but statistically speaking (if you want to bring out the “basic math”), the odds are not good. Outside of the first round, very few players become consistent NHLers. Now, we’re not talking star players, just players that manage to hang around for a couple hundred games.

Although it’ll never happen, I’ve already lost 2 pro sports teams (Nordiques & Expos) so I couldn’t possibly care any less if the Sens eventually leave.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The only net new "adds" to the rebuild in the last 12 months were Brannstrom, Thomsen and Norris. (Plus a bunch magic beans like Abramov and Balcers). Considering Thomsen was a huge downgrade from our original pick, you can't really even include him.

Considering we traded Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Hoffman and Dzingel in the last 12 months (3 legitimate all-stars and 2 top 6 forwards), that's a terrible start to the "rebuild".

Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Bernard-Docker, Hogberg, etc were here before we started "rebuilding".

Interesting take. Though we should probably wait and see how all of our acquired assets turn out. Obviously trading players for picks does look great on the ice right away.

So we’re ignoring all of the other picks we made this year, now also dropping our first rounder this last draft from consideration, ignoring guys like Davidsson who are getting lots of positive reviews as well, ignoring the future picks we acquired, and calling the couple of guys you do deign to mention magic beans. Cool?

And for what reason?

All so you can feel sorry for yourself about the team trading away the old core?

Whatever floats your boat dude, but I’m not joining you on that trip.... Enjoy!

 

[Sweatred]

The only net new "adds" to the rebuild in the last 12 months were Brannstrom, Thomsen and Norris. (Plus a bunch magic beans like Abramov and Balcers). Considering Thomsen was a huge downgrade from our original pick, you can't really even include him.

Considering we traded Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Hoffman and Dzingel in the last 12 months (3 legitimate all-stars and 2 top 6 forwards), that's a terrible start to the "rebuild".

Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Bernard-Docker, Hogberg, etc were here before we started "rebuilding".

In some ways this isn’t much different than the Jays model for a rebuild. They walked away from everyone past their prime but also Stroman, Sanchez, Donaldson etc who had decent years ahead in the short term.

Jays have tonnes of cash to spend and their model is critically viewed but accepted assuming that Stroman types may not help in 3-4 years. It’s debatable whether EK, MD, and a lesser extent MS will represent positive value in 3-4 years.

You could make an argument that if you sold off every player in their prime and scouted well you may build up an unprecedented level of assets. I can’t think of a team that has done that ? Maybe the Florida Marlins ? They had decent results.

For example if Wolanin has a great season you accept an elite trade offer for a 1RD pick + lottery card etc knowing you have tonnes of puck moving dman. Or you trade EB or even TC for “Lindros type” deals. Fans would scream but the model is better than paging 30 years olds 8 yr/$80 mill type contracts.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Lol, no that group did not have the same perigee as we have now. Not close.

Bishop is about the same level as Hog right now, hence why we got him for a second round pick. Then we have two very highly rated prospects behind him, and a bit of a wild card in D’Accord.

We have never had this level of goaltending potential. We’ll see what pans out.

Goalies are a crap shoot sure, but the odds are greater when you have a bunch of highly touted prospects, than not. We’ve done the bargain bin shopping for tenders for decades, and it’s always been a weak point for us. Andy was by far the best goalie we have ever had minus a year of Hasek.

I’m ready for us to stack the position with our own prospects and look to develop a number one of our own.

Marcus Hogberg, if traded today, would not get anything close to a 2nd round pick.

Ray Emery was a better prospect than any goalie we have today. In his rookie AHL season, he put up a .922 SV%. In his 2nd season, it was .924%. Those were in his age 20 and 21 seasons.
Martin Prusek put up a .930 and .925 SV% in his two NHL seasons and won goalie of the year.

Hogberg, at 24, put up a .917 SV%. At 23, it was .899.
Gustavsson, last year, put up an .887 SV%.

You seem to mis-remember a lot of things.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Marcus Hogberg, if traded today, would not get anything close to a 2nd round pick.

Ray Emery was a better prospect than any goalie we have today. In his rookie AHL season, he put up a .922 SV%. In his 2nd season, it was .924%. Those were in his age 20 and 21 seasons.
Martin Prusek put up a .930 and .925 SV% in his two NHL seasons and won goalie of the year.

Hogberg, at 24, put up a .917 SV%. At 23, it was .899.
Gustavsson, last year, put up an .887 SV%.

You seem to mis-remember a lot of things.

Dude, if I were you I’d stop pretending as though you have any idea of what teams would offer for players.

Hog stated the year rough and then got steadily better, and Gus is a rookie.

You’re trying hard to hate this team and it’s kids, but like I said, if that’s what you like, that’s what you like.

I will say this, we have a couple of young tenders who were highly touted when we acquired them, which is not the case with our team typically. Who knows how it all turns out, but it’s nice to finally have some pedigree.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Interesting take. Though we should probably wait and see how all of our acquired assets turn out. Obviously trading players for picks does look great on the ice right away.

So we’re ignoring all of the other picks we made this year, now also dropping our first rounder this last draft from consideration, ignoring guys like Davidsson who are getting lots of positive reviews as well, ignoring the future picks we acquired, and calling the couple of guys you do deign to mention magic beans. Cool?

And for what reason?

All so you can feel sorry for yourself about the team trading away the old core?

Whatever floats your boat dude, but I’m not joining you on that trip.... Enjoy!

Davidsson is 22 years old. He's not a prospect to be excited about. Every single NHL team has tons of guys like him.

This year, we drafted Thomsen, Pinto, Sogaard, Lodin, Kastelic and Guenette. Every single one of those players was considered a reach, and outside of Thomsen, no one should be pencilled into a lineup anytime soon.

But you wanted to evaluate year 1 of the rebuild, so you have to look at all the assets that changed hands in year 1.

Out:
Erik Karlsson
Matt Duchene
Mark Stone
Mike Hoffman
Ryan Dzingel
4th OA pick (Bowen Byram)

In:
Erik Brannstrom
Josh Norris
Vitali Abramov
Anthony Duclair
Jonathan Davidsson
Chris Tierney
Dylan Demelo
Mikkel Boedker
Rudolfs Balcers
19th OA pick (Lassi Thomsen)
37th OA pick (Mads Sogard)
1st round pick 2020 (TBD)
2nd round pick 2020 (TBD)
2nd round pick 2020 (TBD)

That is not good.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Dude, if I were you I’d stop pretending as though you have any idea of what teams would offer for players.

Hog stated the year rough and then got steadily better, and Gus is a rookie.

You’re trying hard to hate this team and it’s kids, but like I said, if that’s what you like, that’s what you like.

I will say this, we have a couple of young tenders who were highly touted when we acquired them, which is not the case with our team typically. Who knows how it all turns out, but it’s nice to finally have some pedigree.

Again, Ray Emery, Robin Lehner and Ben Bishop had more pedigree than any goalie prospect we have today.

And no, Hogberg would not get a 2nd round pick. We have plenty idea of what teams would offer for 24 year old prospect goalies, there's an entire history of trades you can look through.

Jack Campbell, for example, a former 11th OA pick, was traded at 24 years of age, after putting up AHL SV% seasons of .912, .905, .942 and .907, was traded for Nick Ebert, a 7th round pick.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Honestly I’m pretty bullish on this crop of kids. I love the focus on character, and ‘playing the right way’, as well as building from the net out. This group and the young core are trending towards the exact type of team that I want to watch, and that I think can be a long-term successful squad (not getting into ownership crap).

If I’m wrong, then I’ll be wrong, and disappointed like those of you I’m disagreeing with. If I’m right, then I’ll be right, and everyone will be happy together.

How we each decide to conduct ourselves in the meantime is down to personal preference. Me, I’m stoked and don’t really care much about the guys we traded away anymore, what can I say? Duchene was the closest of all of them to the type of player I like most, and he was only here for a year.

I guess I’m just an ‘onward and upward’ type of fan. I respect your potion Dave, don’t take my position personal

 

[Ice-Tray]

Dave, I simply disagree with your assessments concerning trades, but then again, you are in the group of people who assumes that we could have gotten better deals for every trade we have made, without any evidence to support the theory by the way, so we fundamentally disagree on the trading front anyways.

I don’t think anyone was excited for Prusek, maybe I’m wrong. Bishop and Lehner we’re both exciting, until Lehner tried to rush his development and flopped. Bishop would have been nice to keep, but the reality was that Andy was just better than both of them, so there was no real need to overly care about who was going to be back up. Emery was a great character, but I don’t think anyone looked at him as a special goalie. He was the unfortunate substitute for Hasek. Again to each their own, I’m getting a sense that you really liked those guys.

That list looks just fine to me in year one after trading three Pending UFAs and only one who was willing to sign an extension. This sense that there was a much better return out there is pure fabrication. Couple that with the fact that EK and Duchene were never actually going to sign here (we don’t know for sure about Stone) and they had to go regardless.

In hindsight I’m happy about not having over 30 million dollars tied to three players in their mid 30’s when it’s all said and done. That would be half our team budget!!!! Hahaha