Sportsnet: Senators’ Dorion talks team’s payroll, off-season moves and 2019-20 optimism

[DaveMatthew]

Absolutely, but if you can’t be hopeful about prospects over and over again, it may be time to give up being a sports fan!! Haha...

This group is pretty exciting, Cowen and Rundy, sure, but I don’t think anyone was excited about Lee, and Weir was never exciting to me either. We did have Lehner, which was good, but we have at least 3 goalie prospects right now that are looking good, and a couple dark horses.

Perhaps it’s the depth of quality at those two positions that is most exciting. We actually have room for a bust or two and still have a solid core group, with two more massive drafts to add more.

With Chabot, Branstrom, and Thompsen, I’m more stoked about our D than I have been since Redden and Chara and Phillips. Throw JBD in there as well and I personally haven’t been this hopeful for a group.

Anyways, I’m naturally positive, and I enjoy being hopeful about my sports teams. This young group, and the ground up rebuild (finally) has me looking forward to following along.

It's easy to say they weren't that exciting in hindsight, but at the time, there was a ton of hype.

This board is littered with the corpses of the next big thing: Wiercioch, Zubov, Kaigorodov, Regin, Lee, Lazar, Puempel, Cowen, Petersson, O'Brien, Eaves, Chouinard, etc.

They were all talked about the way we talk about Batherson, Formenton, Thomsen, Bernard-Docker, today.

Most prospects do not live up to the hype. Thomsen and Bernard-Docker are much more likely to be Meszaros and Lee than Redden and Phillips.

It's fine to be hopeful, but realistic expectations are key.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Fair enough, hyperbole is the nature of the game here, 6 or 7 could be a stretch, but it could be never too. Oiler have made the playoffs what, 2 times in the last 15 years? Lots of shiny prospects means nothing if the team isn't managed well. Personally i see our management team or lack there off as being far closer to Edm than TO's.

Maybe... but I am going to stay positive and not think doom and gloom for the future.

It just is a bad way to live.

If we end up like the I will cry

 

[DaveMatthew]

Maybe... but I am going to stay positive and not think doom and gloom for the future.

It just is a bad way to live.

If we end up like the I will cry

I don't think we'll end up like the Oilers, because the Oilers tried to spend money. They just spent it all on the completely wrong players.

We're more likely to end up like the 02-09 Arizona Coyotes, without the good weather and golf courses that entice players to stay.

 

[Ice-Tray]

His point is that we need to be a little more realistic. Only one or two succeeding and transforming into bonafide top 4D is much more likely than only one or two busting. It's not being not optimistic, it's just being real. Lehner projected to be better than any goaltender we have in our system right now at just about every stage of his development, and he still didn't turn out to be our goaltender of the future.

Anything can happen. If we manage to pull one or two top 4 D out of our current crop of Brann, Jaros, Lajoie, JBD, Tychonick, Thompson (whoever else I'm missing) we should be ecstatic.

In the world of sports fandom there is no universal award for being ‘more realistic’.

Some people enjoy hedging their emotional bets on both sides so as to avoid to many up and down swings, while others dive in and experience the highs and lows to their fullest.

To each their own. I personally don’t value tempering my excitement based on potential future disappointment, but that’s just me.

Mick can govern himself as he sees best, I’m good with that, but it’s not me. That’s all I’m saying, there is no right or wrong way to be a fan.

 

[JD1]

I think if you read people's posts in response to yours you would have a pretty clear answer to that question...

I also suspected that you follow the league close enough to not have to ask that question in the first place but here we are.

The issue is either Melnyk ponies up starting next season with Chabot and continues to pony up with the long list of guys that will need contracts and we can get out of this hole much faster than 6 or 7 years or he does not. If he does not pony up then the shit show not only continues, it gets worse.

Buffalo and Edmonton are more unique cases if inept mgmt over a decade plus.

 

[GrantLemons]

The issue is either Melnyk ponies up starting next season with Chabot and continues to pony up with the long list of guys that will need contracts and we can get out of this hole much faster than 6 or 7 years or he does not. If he does not pony up then the **** show not only continues, it gets worse.

Buffalo and Edmonton are more unique cases if inept mgmt over a decade plus.

Our current management has proven to be just as inept (if not more) as either of those examples. What would lead you to believe we're going to be any better off? At least those teams were/are willing to spend money, where as we haven't even proven that yet.

 

[JD1]

6 or 7 years sounds a little extreme. I have read some of the posts you talk about. I think that maybe a worse case scenario.

I am hoping we are good to go in 3-4 years. i can`t wait 7

I do not think it will take 3 to 4 years. We'll be playoff competitive before that imo.

Chabot will improve but he's already high end. I think two years from now...drop of the puck in 2021 our ability to move the puck out of our zone will be elite. And we are going to have enough firepower up front to benefit from the ability to move the puck up ice.

And added to that should be an elite offensive player taken in June 2020 in his D +2 season.

I also think the 6 or 7 years can only happen if we are perpetually using ltir contracts to get above the floor in which case it isn't 6 or 7 years it is never

 

[JD1]

Our current management has proven to be just as inept (if not more) as either of those examples. What would lead you to believe we're going to be any better off? At least those teams were/are willing to spend money, where as we haven't even proven that yet.

Look...if between the start of PD's tenure as a GM and 2030 we make the playoffs one more time, just once, he will have had more success than Edmonton based on two playoff appearances and 2 series wins....so no, as things currently stand, it's not even f***ing remotely close.

 

[GrantLemons]

In the world of sports fandom there is no universal award for being ‘more realistic’.

Some people enjoy hedging their emotional bets on both sides so as to avoid to many up and down swings, while others dive in and experience the highs and lows to their fullest.

To each their own. I personally don’t value tempering my excitement based on potential future disappointment, but that’s just me.

Mick can govern himself as he sees best, I’m good with that, but it’s not me. That’s all I’m saying, there is no right or wrong way to be a fan.

You are right on all accounts, but saying things like 'we're so stacked we can afford to have one or two prospects bust' is foolish.

We're not stacked anywhere in our pool. We have a very large group of legit NHL prospects with one elite (Brannstrom), and two very good ones (Bathtub, Brown). Lassi might move into one of these groups, but atm he's not there yet.

Being hopeful is good and fine, and I guarantee you we all are, but let's not be too unrealistic as to say our prospect pool is 'stacked'.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He made it to the conference finals with a team mostly put together by his predecessor and even the moves he made that year were polarizing and had lasting consequences, such as the Zibanejad deal, Boucher hiring and Burrows deal/extension.

Whether by direction from his boss or other circumstances, he followed that up with a dreadful summer where the roster was significantly downgraded and he was unable to pivot and effectively fix any of the issues.

Then we got the Duchene deal that seemed to be the beginning of the end with catastrophic consequences asset wise.

He now has last place locked down 2 years in a row and likely more for at least one season.

He's banking on a group of youth to grow and succeed while surrounded by an inept veteran group mostly consisting of cap casualties.

We shall see how this all turns out, but his resume is riding his former Bosses team to the conference finals, losing an entire core despite saying over and over he intended to sign them, and then running out a last place team for two or more years.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

He's banking on a group of youth to grow and succeed while surrounded by an inept veteran group mostly consisting of cap casualties.

.

 

[Alex1234]

We’re in rough shape for a very long time. FYOUS is a good piece away, it’ll take 6-7 years before our young “core” of Chabot, tkachuk, white are well in to their primes and that’s hoping we pick up a more than a few of their ilk during that time. Of course, this all largely depends on if we are able to keep that core and history suggests we won’t. We need those guys in their mid-late twenties, locked up on decently cap friendly long term deals and young ELC studs filling out the roster.

That’s an extended timeline and also assumes melnyk is able to keep them all, which is by no means a guarantee. Does he have the means to float a team of budding stars for this length of time while we continue to draft? After 2021 our number of picks drops to a “normal” range, will melnyk spend big on single year ufa’s To use as trade bait at the deadline to recoup more picks? Will melnyk start trading cap for picks to bolster the figures?

These are a good portion of the questions we need yes answers to and unfortunately they have been either answered no or showing signs of no thus far.

It’s dark days for so long as either melnyk is owner or somehow he magically changes his mindset and decides to invest in the product. Obviously new owners with a desire and means to win changes everything.

Another unrelated question, who was the last NHL team in the bottom half of spending to win the cup?

Likely won't be on the team in 2-3 years plus we have worst management in pro sports
6-7 years is a dream if Eugene stays

 

[Rand0m]

I do not think it will take 3 to 4 years. We'll be playoff competitive before that imo.

Chabot will improve but he's already high end. I think two years from now...drop of the puck in 2021 our ability to move the puck out of our zone will be elite. And we are going to have enough firepower up front to benefit from the ability to move the puck up ice.

And added to that should be an elite offensive player taken in June 2020 in his D +2 season.

I also think the 6 or 7 years can only happen if we are perpetually using ltir contracts to get above the floor in which case it isn't 6 or 7 years it is never

can I have some of what you’re sinking???

From worst team in the league by a mile to competitive within 2-3 years? With this owner and budget??? The team has zero vets of value,

Chabot is the only star this team has and he’ll more than likely be gone next summer (if not traded away this year).Tkachuck is good but by no means a superstar that can carry his team on his back.

The only way this team is competitive in 2-3 years is if they get sold this year. Otherwise, this organization is doomed to finish in the bottom 5 for its foreseeable future. There’s a decent foundation in place but with this ownership there’s just no way they can take the next step.

 

[BK201]

You are right on all accounts, but saying things like 'we're so stacked we can afford to have one or two prospects bust' is foolish.

We're not stacked anywhere in our pool. We have a very large group of legit NHL prospects with one elite (Brannstrom), and two very good ones (Bathtub, Brown). Lassi might move into one of these groups, but atm he's not there yet.

Being hopeful is good and fine, and I guarantee you we all are, but let's not be too unrealistic as to say our prospect pool is 'stacked'.

Idk all I've heard is good about docker I'd put him as still needing time but better than just a legit nhler at this point at least his potential.

Thomson about the same. He playing pro this year.

White and brown still jury out. What is elite though pure skill? Could white be an elite 2 way center but maybe we are only looking at certain factors?

 

[Byron Bitz]

I like some of the players that have been brought in for this rebuild until I look at the rest of the Atlantic division. It’s gonna be a really tough division to compete in for a long time and unless the playoff format changes (which I think it should for a multitude of reasons) It’s hard to see this team playing meaningful games any time soon.

 

[bert]

Maybe... but I am going to stay positive and not think doom and gloom for the future.

It just is a bad way to live.

If we end up like the I will cry

Id trade our situation for their current situation 1 million times over. Mcdavid and Draisaitls contracts are steals compared to what some of these guys are getting paid. Marner wants 13 million.

 

[Yak]

PD spins stuff that is so much B.S. makes me cringe to listen to him talk. The vets he brought in, let's not even go their, makes me laugh and shake my head all at once.

Can't wait to watch some hockey and see the young guys play!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

You are right on all accounts, but saying things like 'we're so stacked we can afford to have one or two prospects bust' is foolish.

We're not stacked anywhere in our pool. We have a very large group of legit NHL prospects with one elite (Brannstrom), and two very good ones (Bathtub, Brown). Lassi might move into one of these groups, but atm he's not there yet.

Being hopeful is good and fine, and I guarantee you we all are, but let's not be too unrealistic as to say our prospect pool is 'stacked'.

Agreed.

I mean, just read prospect threads from 10 years ago, and see the hype for kids who ended up being duds. There are way, way, way more misses than hits in the prospect forecasting game.

 

[InTkachukWeTrust]

You know what I’m optimistic for next season. Seeing Drake Batherson play.

 

[Cosmix]

His PR gaffes were bad I agree. I also feel he was a good scout but is a poor GM and has been swindled in his trades, I just dont think new ownership would clean house right away.

I think the new ownership would want to clear the air by shipping out those who stink! It would be a way to show the fans that they are taking the actions required to make this team desirable to watch and provide hope for the future. Melnyk and his gang must all go.

 

[Sensinitis]

I like some of the players that have been brought in for this rebuild until I look at the rest of the Atlantic division. It’s gonna be a really tough division to compete in for a long time and unless the playoff format changes (which I think it should for a multitude of reasons) It’s hard to see this team playing meaningful games any time soon.

You know what I actually think our timing is solid. If we’re planning to compete in 2-3 yrs from now, I don’t think Boston will be very relevant by then. Florida is a wild card because of their playoff history. Tampa will have a hard time keeping that core together that long. Ditto Toronto. Who knows what happens with Buffalo. Etc. The next few years we would be ****ed, but 3 yrs down the line we will have more of an opportunity to do some damage imo.

 

[Cosmix]

I do not think it will take 3 to 4 years. We'll be playoff competitive before that imo.

Chabot will improve but he's already high end. I think two years from now...drop of the puck in 2021 our ability to move the puck out of our zone will be elite. And we are going to have enough firepower up front to benefit from the ability to move the puck up ice.

And added to that should be an elite offensive player taken in June 2020 in his D +2 season.

I also think the 6 or 7 years can only happen if we are perpetually using ltir contracts to get above the floor in which case it isn't 6 or 7 years it is never

Playoff competitive in 3 or 4 years means 2021-2022 and 2022-2023, leaving 2019-20 and 2020-21 as years 1 and 2. Personally I don’t see a playoff team until 4 or 5 years ahead at best. There are no quality vets left on this team.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Playoff competitive in 3 or 4 years means 2021-2022 and 2022-2023, leaving 2019-20 and 2020-21 as years 1 and 2. Personally I don’t see a playoff team until 4 or 5 years ahead at best. There are no quality vets left on this team.

I am thinking that they will bring in more vets as the time goes on.

Lest we forget.... we are in tank phase.

Relax

 

[foggyvisor]

21 year old's Drake Batherson and Logan Brown combine for 104 points in 115 AHL games, but miss the playoffs.
"These guys are future studs! FYOUS incoming! Dorion is a drafting savant and the rebuild is great!"

21 year old Auston Matthews and 22 year old Mitch Marner combine for 167 points in 150 NHL games, but lose in the first round.
"These guys are chokers! They'll never get better! Terrible rebuild!"

I'm not comparing them to the current Sens. The Leafs are more like the Sens of the 2000s. Soft with skill but no will.

Can't wait till we scrape into the playoffs one season and we eliminate them in round 1. Tkachuk is our Roberts.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It's easy to say they weren't that exciting in hindsight, but at the time, there was a ton of hype.

This board is littered with the corpses of the next big thing: Wiercioch, Zubov, Kaigorodov, Regin, Lee, Lazar, Puempel, Cowen, Petersson, O'Brien, Eaves, Chouinard, etc.

They were all talked about the way we talk about Batherson, Formenton, Thomsen, Bernard-Docker, today.

Most prospects do not live up to the hype. Thomsen and Bernard-Docker are much more likely to be Meszaros and Lee than Redden and Phillips.

It's fine to be hopeful, but realistic expectations are key.

As I said, I personally wasn’t hyped about Lee, more bummed that we didn’t pick someone else, and I have never even slightly liked Weir. I actually really dislike his game, so soft.

Also as I said, ‘realistic’ expectations are fluid based on each individual. Some need to temper expectations because they dislike feeling let down, while others enjoy the hype enough to suffer the let downs as recompense. It’s supposed to be an enjoyable experience, what ever that looks like to each of us.

The ‘key’ as you put it, is to do what’s best for yourself as a sports fan. You do you, as they say.