Seattle vs Tampa Bay, Expansion Draft Advantage

[Bevans]

No, it isn't. Free agency begins a week after the expansion draft.

Finally page 3 and a really good rebuttal! I thought it was July 1st like usual, didn't even think to confirm. This changes everything!

 

[HoseEmDown]

Tampa isn't adding any picks or prospects for Seattle to draft Killorn, Palat or McDonagh. The only player they would give anything for to be drafted is Johnson. If Seattle doesn't want to take any of the other 3 without a sweetener then don't take them and we'll be happy to keep them. If they ask for too much to take Johnson then they can take Joseph, Colton or Foote. We will trade Johnson to another team who is willing to take the assets we attach with him. We can trade Killorn or Palat for assets. We are over the cap next year but moving Johnson and one other decent contract gets us compliant and might leave enough money to bring back a Goodrow. We aren't completely screwed with the ED, we will pay a price but a fair one.

 

[Dache]

I'm saying they have fewer players of value (that they want to trade) than will fix their issues. There is also less cap space (outside seattle) than necessary to easily resolve their issues.

They will need to pay more than they'd like to fix their cap situation (not a catastrophe just a math problem).

They have more leverage to resolve the math problem if they know a player is going to Seattle.

Well yeah, no one wants to move players of value. Who do they have outside of Johnson that may require a sweetener? Anyone else can be moved for value

 

[Flyer lurker]

I disagree with your assessment of Coleman.

Coleman at 2m per for 1.50 years when TBL acquired very valuable.

Do i want Coleman at say 5 years 27.5 million over Joseph, Foote, Killorn, Johnson with pick sweets? Not remotely a consideration. Bevans you are assessing the player only. You are not assessing the salary and term.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Just to review Kevin Hayes got a 5th round pick to negotiate for his signing rights for what was the 2nd best center in a cr*ptacular center free agent year. Do we really think Joseph, Killorn, Ryan Mc, Foote, Palat, etc. is worth less than a 5th?

 

[Bevans]

Well yeah, no one wants to move players of value. Who do they have outside of Johnson that may require a sweetener? Anyone else can be moved for value

McD needs a sweetener. Even if he wins the Conn Symthe.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I think some of the comments suggest robbing Seattle.
Below I quote my comments (unchanged) May 2-4, 2021.
This is my opinion and it has not changed.

“Bad contracts exchange.
The preference is for bad contracts (with overpriced AAV) of good players.
The minimum cost of one bad contract (term - 1.2 years) = 1st.
Changes to compensation are possible.

Player with bad contract = exchange price - this is true from a simple mathematical point of view.
In fact, this is not the case. This is true of any other club (except Seattle).
Seattle takes a bad contract (in the expansion draft).
Seattle loses a player - whom it could have taken (without an agreement).
Seattle's real profits are less. This must be taken into account.

Transactions:
From Tampa - Killorn + Johnson + Mcdonagh = 1st 22 + 1st 23 + 2nd 23 + 3rd 21.
Why Mcdonagh's contract is rated D + (The Athletic). Johnson - C; Killorn – B”

This might be one of the dumbest things I have read on HF. Congratulations.

 

[Dache]

McD needs a sweetener. Even if he wins the Conn Symthe.

Well we’ll have to agree to disagree then. I don’t think he’ll fetch what he once would have but he would not require an add on.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

This might be one of the dumbest things I have read on HF. Congratulations.

Thank you for your congratulations.
I received an assessment from such a recognized authority. This is happiness.
Your comment successfully shows your real level - absolute zero.
Congratulations on your recognition of your services.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

IMO if Palat is available for Seattle to draft, they take him and run... thats a deadly expansion draft pickup.

Nothing needs to be added with him cause that is a steal as it is being able to draft a player with his abilities

 

[gstommylee]

Tampa isn't adding any picks or prospects for Seattle to draft Killorn, Palat or McDonagh. The only player they would give anything for to be drafted is Johnson. If Seattle doesn't want to take any of the other 3 without a sweetener then don't take them and we'll be happy to keep them. If they ask for too much to take Johnson then they can take Joseph, Colton or Foote. We will trade Johnson to another team who is willing to take the assets we attach with him. We can trade Killorn or Palat for assets. We are over the cap next year but moving Johnson and one other decent contract gets us compliant and might leave enough money to bring back a Goodrow. We aren't completely screwed with the ED, we will pay a price but a fair one.

You do realize even if we take Johnson tampa is still in cap hell...

 

[Sky04]

You do realize even if we take Johnson tampa is still in cap hell...

Not really, that's 1 move from being under the cap at that point. Or did you not realize that?

 

[StreetHawk]

Just to review Kevin Hayes got a 5th round pick to negotiate for his signing rights for what was the 2nd best center in a cr*ptacular center free agent year. Do we really think Joseph, Killorn, Ryan Mc, Foote, Palat, etc. is worth less than a 5th?

Hayes was a 27 year old soon to be free agent who was going to command over $6 mill on a long term deal. You are listing guys already into their 30’s who have eaten up the majority of their prime years.

I wouldn’t take McDonaugh due to the cap hit and term left in his deal. He’s going on 32 this year with 5 years left.

I think you would go ahead and take killorn and Palat if either got exposed.

 

[Djp]

Does Seattle have to select Coleman first prior to them even negotiating with him?

no. They get a window to exclusively negotiate snd sign UFAs which count as ED picks.

but the league watches thus like a hawk to watch for tampering in which Coleman agrees but does not sign till grnerally UFA starts and Seattle picks someone else from tampa

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Seattle should try and secure as many unprotected 2022 1sts as possible that should be their only priority.

3 top-15 picks like Vegas had would be huge in what is supposed to be a legendary draft

 

[Djp]

Why a first for Killorn? Killorn is a top 6 winger, tied for the lead in Goals on Tampa this playoffs and a career 0.5PPG player in the regular season and playoffs who is signed for two more years 4.45M. It's not like he's an anchor or something. If not for Tampa's cap, he would have easily gotten a late first to high second.

tampas need to move salary affects return value. Sure all it takes is one GM to give him a fair offer.

A middle six winger does not get deadline 1st trade value. More 2nd+

 

[Flyer lurker]

Hayes was a 27 year old soon to be free agent who was going to command over $6 mill on a long term deal. You are listing guys already into their 30’s who have eaten up the majority of their prime years.

I wouldn’t take McDonaugh due to the cap hit and term left in his deal. He’s going on 32 this year with 5 years left.

I think you would go ahead and take killorn and Palat if either got exposed.

Ryan Mc is the wild card if available. He can be a 1/2 D for them ASAP(ideally not 1). He would be the best player available for this year. But as mentioned previously he may not age well.

Killorn and Palat on their deals are for sure safer choices than Ryan Mc.

Joseph and C Foote on their salaries I would totally get those choices as well.

But Coleman signing rights? Way down the list.

 

[gstommylee]

Not really, that's 1 move from being under the cap at that point. Or did you not realize that?

And its going to take more than 1 player being moved for them to be able to do anything signing player wise.

 

[Djp]

It’s a marathon, not a sprint. Is it good business to alienate someone you will need to make deals with right out the gate? Maybe they should offer sheet young stars on a bunch of teams too. A move like the one in the OP might make more sense if the Lightning were in the same division I guess. I’m not saying it’s a bad idea - but I suspect pragmatism/ longer term thinking will prevail.

agrer they don’t want to burn bridges. But at the same time Seattle can’t take all bad contracts for crap. They really can only take about 8-10 $4M+ contracts

each team has a few of these. Then the bidding starts for teams to unload a contract.

in a flat cap world there are few teamwho can take on a 2+ yr contract without sending some salary back.

 

[Djp]

Expansion draft is 21 days after free agency. If what you're trying to communicate is that Coleman will be a free agent until after the expansion, then I would say that's more far fetched than my thread.

That being said, it is possible.

expansion draft occurs first
Entry drsft a few days later
Free agency a few days after entry draft

 

[Fan from AK]

Won't the salary cap rise next season with the new TV deal???? I heard that on NHL Network on one of their shows. Just wondering.

 

[Sky04]

And its going to take more than 1 player being moved for them to be able to do anything signing player wise.

No, it wouldn't.

 

[Djp]

Seattle should try and secure as many unprotected 2022 1sts as possible that should be their only priority.

3 top-15 picks like Vegas had would be huge in what is supposed to be a legendary draft

They actually want to spread picks over 21-23 drafts

remember 21 picks won’t play for AHL till 23-24 season.

they need to man a 22-23 team.

expect them to also get players drafted who will be ELC in 22-23 season. Some might be on contract next season and some don’t start till 22/23 season.

 

[Djp]

Won't the salary cap rise next season with the new TV deal???? I heard that on NHL Network on one of their shows. Just wondering.

Because of paying players full salary this year, the cap won’t be going up much for some time. One yr to the next it might raise by $0.5M.

expect21-22 and 22-23 to be about $82M.

 

[Djp]

There are very few players making $4M+ that Seattle will drsft without getting additional things.

remember they have to be cap compliant and have a long term plan around a farm system.

of the 30 players picked, figure 8 are flipped.

this leaves them 22 players. Some of these p,Ayers they got other stuff for picking them.

ideally they would have

5 players with and ELC year left.
5 on ELC in 22/23 who are still on it in 22/23
5 players who start ELC in 22/23 season
6 player who are forecast to start ELC in 23/23