Speculation: Search for a President of Hockey..... Oops

[BatherSeason]

Dubas seems to love his advanced stats picks, and likes taking small guys and overagers. I'd be very concerned if I were a Leafs fan about their drafting outside the 1st round. They are among the worst, if not the worst team at finding talent in the draft past the 1st 3 rounds.

Dubas has been the GM for one season. That's it. Maybe Lou or Hunter or Shanny is to blame? Maybe Babs had more of a say in the drafts than we think?

I hate the leafs like everyone else, but to simply put the all the blame on Dubas' shoulders anytime anything goes wrong with that franchise, solely because he believes in analytics, is a tad premature.

 

[NorthCoast]

Yes, in the past Melnyk said dumb things, always did and that was part of his charm. Now he is a moron, embarrassing, etc...but he is the same person. He hasn’t changed so much as the supporters have.

Your right. Melnyk hasn't changed and probably won't.


Has he always said stupid things? Yes.

But saying stupid in the past usually didn't result in him/the team doing stupid things. Lately it has.


Clearly the primary thing that has changed is that in the past he thought it was a good use of team budget to have experienced people in team leadership positions and now he doesn't. Or it just took him a decade and Murray's cancer to properly surround himself with sycophants. (not holding my breath on POHO or new coach changing this)

IMO That has nothing to do with the fans regardless of budget or attendance. Melnyk decides how to split up the team revenue, who to hire, who to retain, who to drive away. If he wants all of the budget to go to the players and nothing to the management of the team that's his decision.


However, if I am being interviewed for this position the first question I am asking is: what led you (Melnyk) to the decision that Ottawa can be as competitive as other teams with significantly fewer people, and with less experience in management, than most, almost if not all, other teams the past few years.

The only answers are that 1) he didn't think it was worth the money or 2) in his estimation Dorion/PR Guy didn't need any help. Both answers are bad....that is unless Melnyk can convince the POHO prospect that he has changed

 

[GrantLemons]

But saying stupid in the past usually didn't result in him/the team doing stupid things. Lately it has.

This is it. He's always done and said dumb and embarrassing things, but now that he has no credible execs left under him to deflect the bad PR, he's getting toasted.

When you lose credibility, you're fried. Doesn't really matter what you do, because without credibility people won't give you the benefit of the doubt, ever. That's what we're seeing with Eugene.

 

[topshelf15]

This is it. He's always done and said dumb and embarrassing things, but now that he has no credible execs left under him to deflect the bad PR, he's getting toasted.

When you lose credibility, you're fried. Doesn't really matter what you do, because without credibility people won't give you the benefit of the doubt, ever. That's what we're seeing with Eugene.

Pretty much,nobody trusts him...And that is completely on him

 

[BondraTime]

Dubas has been the GM for one season. That's it. Maybe Lou or Hunter or Shanny is to blame? Maybe Babs had more of a say in the drafts than we think?

I hate the leafs like everyone else, but to simply put the all the blame on Dubas' shoulders anytime anything goes wrong with that franchise, solely because he believes in analytics, is a tad premature.

His draft tendancies haven't changed, the reason Hunter left was because the decisions and the promotion was being given to Dubas, whom he did not agree with. Babcock and Dubas had a huge falling out this season as was widely reported.

There is a reason the Leafs have the biggest advanced stats department in the league, and just added another 50 million to their payroll for advanced stats alone. Dubas is in love with them.

Babcock was furious at Dubas because Dubas traded away Lindholm for Petan and then wanted/told Babcock to play Petan.

2018

Took a double overaged 5'9 D in the 4th in Hollowell. He was GM of this team in the OHL

Took another double overaged D from the OHL in the 2nd in Durzi.

Took the diminutive advanced stat darling Arguchinstev in the 3rd

Took an overaged unranked Swede in Holmberg the 6th

2017

Took the overaged Russain forward in the 4th

2016

Took the unknown double overaged Russian F at 31st in Korshkov

Took the 5'9 double underaged F from the W in the 4th in Brooks

Took the overaged Russian F out of the WHL in the 5th in Bobylev

Took the small double overaged F out of the WHL in the 6th in Walker

Took the overaged Russian F in the 7th in Chebykin

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

His draft tendancies haven't changed, the reason Hunter left was because the decisions and the promotion was being given to Dubas, whom he did not agree with. Babcock and Dubas had a huge falling out this season as was widely reported.

There is a reason the Leafs have the biggest advanced stats department in the league, and just added another 50 million to their payroll for advanced stats alone. Dubas is in love with them.

Babcock was furious at Dubas because Dubas traded away Lindholm for Petan and then wanted/told Babcock to play Petan.

2018

Took a double overaged 5'9 D in the 4th in Hollowell. He was GM of this team in the OHL

Took another double overaged D from the OHL in the 2nd in Durzi.

Took the diminutive advanced stat darling Arguchinstev in the 3rd

Took an overaged unranked Swede in Holmberg the 6th

2017

Took the overaged Russain forward in the 4th

2016

Took the unknown double overaged Russian F at 31st in Korshkov

Took the 5'9 double underaged F from the W in the 4th in Brooks

Took the overaged Russian F out of the WHL in the 5th in Bobylev

Took the small double overaged F out of the WHL in the 6th in Walker

Took the overaged Russian F in the 7th in Chebykin

Doesn't look very good

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

His draft tendancies haven't changed, the reason Hunter left was because the decisions and the promotion was being given to Dubas, whom he did not agree with. Babcock and Dubas had a huge falling out this season as was widely reported.

There is a reason the Leafs have the biggest advanced stats department in the league, and just added another 50 million to their payroll for advanced stats alone. .....

Wait, what? Are you saying they have an advanced stats department that spends $50M per year????

 

[Ouroboros]

Wait, what? Are you saying they have an advanced stats department that spends $50M per year????

There has been speculation that the Leafs are adding a ton of people/resources to their hockey analytics/R&D operations to prepare for player tracking data coming on-line next season. I've heard the 50M figure kicked around by a few people.

Wild, huh? The Sens probably won't even spend 50M cash on their roster next season.

 

[coladin]

Your right. Melnyk hasn't changed and probably won't.


Has he always said stupid things? Yes.

But saying stupid in the past usually didn't result in him/the team doing stupid things. Lately it has.


Clearly the primary thing that has changed is that in the past he thought it was a good use of team budget to have experienced people in team leadership positions and now he doesn't. Or it just took him a decade and Murray's cancer to properly surround himself with sycophants. (not holding my breath on POHO or new coach changing this)

IMO That has nothing to do with the fans regardless of budget or attendance. Melnyk decides how to split up the team revenue, who to hire, who to retain, who to drive away. If he wants all of the budget to go to the players and nothing to the management of the team that's his decision.


However, if I am being interviewed for this position the first question I am asking is: what led you (Melnyk) to the decision that Ottawa can be as competitive as other teams with significantly fewer people, and with less experience in management, than most, almost if not all, other teams the past few years.

The only answers are that 1) he didn't think it was worth the money or 2) in his estimation Dorion/PR Guy didn't need any help. Both answers are bad....that is unless Melnyk can convince the POHO prospect that he has changed

I don’t disagree with anything you said.

I think something else that has changed compared to the past is financial constraints. That has impacted many aspects of this franchise and decision making. Him saying dumb things as a billionaire was one thing, but there is no tolerance for his antics now as a last placed team, devoid of fan favourites both on and off the ice.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Bettman still stickin up for Euge

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Poho stuff starts around the 29 minute mark.... discusses confusion on the job title. Mentions a Don Maloney as someone the league has approached .. the actual role is an issue. Also RonFrancis and possibly Dave Tippett may be interested in an advisor role. ... worth a listen although not earth shattering.

Bettman wants someone with hockey ops experience in Ottawa. Recognizes that they are stretched thin
IMO he's also watched them dismantle a pretty good team into a bare bones team with a long term horizon to get better. I can see the league being concerned.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Dubas has been the GM for one season. That's it. Maybe Lou or Hunter or Shanny is to blame? Maybe Babs had more of a say in the drafts than we think?

I hate the leafs like everyone else, but to simply put the all the blame on Dubas' shoulders anytime anything goes wrong with that franchise, solely because he believes in analytics, is a tad premature.

Dubas found a way to lose, that team is stacked.

 

[Liver King]

Other than Matthews and Marner who were kinda no brainers for Hunter , particularly coming out of London, what were Mark Hunters other great picks that would distinguish him? Not saying he wouldn't be a good man for the job but I am not sure he is so much better than other potential candidates. I personally don't think he'd touch Ottawa regardless.

I think it's more that hes at the higher end of the somewhat realistic candidates.

Maybe Hunter is far more highly regarded than I'm thinking he is

 

[BonkTastic]

Bettman still stickin up for Euge

Bettman will never, ever, ever say anything other than "everything is fine".

He is the commisioner. This is what he does. People looking for anything else from Bettman are looking in the wrong place. Melnyk could shoot Bettman's dog and the commisioner would have nothing but positive things to say about him in public.

Bettman's no fool. This isn't his first rodeo with less-than-ideal ownership in this league.

 

[BonkTastic]

Dubas found a way to lose, that team is stacked.

Dubas found a way to lose?

Dubas isn't even in my top-5 reasons why the Leafs lost that series.

... Well, maybe he's in the top 5 because they failed to address the blueline sufficiently. Sure. But most of that team is Shanahan & Lamorello's guys.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Dubas found a way to lose?

Dubas isn't even in my top-5 reasons why the Leafs lost that series.

... Well, maybe he's in the top 5 because they failed to address the blueline sufficiently. Sure. But most of that team is Shanahan & Lamorello's guys.

Got Tavares instead of help on D, insisted on giving Sparks the backup job thus angering his coach and losing them a bunch of games and maybe home-ice against the Bruins, caved to Nylander, didn't get term on Matthews and got Petan who Babs wanted nothing to do with.

The team is stacked but this year was not a success for the Leafs' management. Now they have to deal with Marner.

 

[BatherSeason]

Dubas found a way to lose?

Dubas isn't even in my top-5 reasons why the Leafs lost that series.

... Well, maybe he's in the top 5 because they failed to address the blueline sufficiently. Sure. But most of that team is Shanahan & Lamorello's guys.

Dubas believes in analytics, therefore the hatred is based on that one fact alone, every post that criticizes a guy who has been the GM of the Leafs for one season, begins with "well, analytics..."

How many GMs that believe in the good old eye test have been canned for putting together terrible hockey teams?? Probably a lot more than the analytics guys.

 

[Take a Bath Son]

Bettman will never, ever, ever say anything other than "everything is fine".

He is the commisioner. This is what he does. People looking for anything else from Bettman are looking in the wrong place. Melnyk could shoot Bettman's dog and the commisioner would have nothing but positive things to say about him in public.

Bettman's no fool. This isn't his first rodeo with less-than-ideal ownership in this league.

Bettman I get. Garrioch is absolutely insufferable.

 

[aragorn]

IMO the reason the Leafs lost is because they are too soft up front & I'm not sure that will change with Babcock behind the bench. If they were to add some size & grit to their front lines, guys who can fight for pucks in the corners & along the boards & get the puck to their stars that would go a long way in helping that team get by the first rd.

I would trade Nylander for a big tough winger with skill who can do a lot of the heavy lifting. I would trade Gardner for a bigger tougher defenceman who can also move the puck & I would invest in a much better backup goalie. They have a lot of good players but they are way too easy to play against & don't seem to like to play defensively very much.

 

[coladin]

Got Tavares instead of help on D, insisted on giving Sparks the backup job thus angering his coach and losing them a bunch of games and maybe home-ice against the Bruins, caved to Nylander, didn't get term on Matthews and got Petan who Babs wanted nothing to do with.

The team is stacked but this year was not a success for the Leafs' management. Now they have to deal with Marner.

And stopping at Muzzin on the backend, wasting another year of the kids development and cheaper salaries, is his biggest mistake. maybe he was too smug with the firepower up front. Maybe his analytics told him everything was going to be ok. Nylander signing and scoring 6 goals was pleasing to watch. Now the test begins for Dubas. Does he get lambasted like Dorion, or will he actually show his smarts in their next step.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Signing Nylander ahead of Mathews and Marner was a mistake. Should have locked both those guys up asap after July 1.

Nylander's value was high and he could have returned their coveted RHD imo.

 

[RaMai]

And stopping at Muzzin on the backend, wasting another year of the kids development and cheaper salaries, is his biggest mistake. maybe he was too smug with the firepower up front. Maybe his analytics told him everything was going to be ok. Nylander signing and scoring 6 goals was pleasing to watch. Now the test begins for Dubas. Does he get lambasted like Dorion, or will he actually show his smarts in their next step.

You still think he doesn't earn the criticism and it will be revealed what mastermind he actually is?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

And stopping at Muzzin on the backend, wasting another year of the kids development and cheaper salaries, is his biggest mistake. maybe he was too smug with the firepower up front. Maybe his analytics told him everything was going to be ok. Nylander signing and scoring 6 goals was pleasing to watch. Now the test begins for Dubas. Does he get lambasted like Dorion, or will he actually show his smarts in their next step.

On the Nylander thing, this is the downside of being the rich kid desperate for attention: everybody is gonna milk the crap out of you.

 

[BatherSeason]

His draft tendancies haven't changed, the reason Hunter left was because the decisions and the promotion was being given to Dubas, whom he did not agree with. Babcock and Dubas had a huge falling out this season as was widely reported.

There is a reason the Leafs have the biggest advanced stats department in the league, and just added another 50 million to their payroll for advanced stats alone. Dubas is in love with them.

Babcock was furious at Dubas because Dubas traded away Lindholm for Petan and then wanted/told Babcock to play Petan.

2018

Took a double overaged 5'9 D in the 4th in Hollowell. He was GM of this team in the OHL

Took another double overaged D from the OHL in the 2nd in Durzi.

Took the diminutive advanced stat darling Arguchinstev in the 3rd

Took an overaged unranked Swede in Holmberg the 6th

2017

Took the overaged Russain forward in the 4th

2016

Took the unknown double overaged Russian F at 31st in Korshkov

Took the 5'9 double underaged F from the W in the 4th in Brooks

Took the overaged Russian F out of the WHL in the 5th in Bobylev

Took the small double overaged F out of the WHL in the 6th in Walker

Took the overaged Russian F in the 7th in Chebykin

Why is Dubas solely to blame for 2016 and 2017 draft picks? Was he the GM at the time?

 

[BatherSeason]

Nylander's value was high and he could have returned their coveted RHD imo

Because making a equal value trade is that easy? We already know that Cody Ceci is a RHD and that we could have had Taylor Hall or Drouin for him 1 for 1, but we decided that Ceci was too valuable to us to move, maybe Dubas was only offered Ceci type deals for Nylander? Maybe Dubas is smart enough to recognize that guys like Ceci do not equal Nylander.

To tie this back to the topic at hand, it seems that the majority of people in this thread despise Kyle Dubas and seem to have points to back this up, whether valid or invalid. We all do realize that Mark Hunter, was let go in favor of the guy you all hate right?? How does that make Mark Hunter a good candidate? If Dubas is bad, then Hunter must be worse. Is Shanny that stupid to have picked Dubas?? Did Dubas hypnotize the entire MLSE board into hiring him?