Fig
Absolute Horse Shirt
- Dec 15, 2014
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If Mony had wheels we would ride him like a bike instead of the trike we have in Johnny?
Player Discussion Sean Monahan
- Thread starter Bounces R Way
- Start date
If Mony had wheels we would ride him like a bike instead of the trike we have in Johnny?
GumbyCan2
Registered User
Yah Brandon Sutter and Nils Hoglander + a ( 1st or 2nd min) pick. Lets do it man. No lawyers, no gm's, no problem.
Maybe?
With Sutter for some reason not noticing that Lindholm’s offense has dried up without Dube, Monahan looks like he is going to lead our team in even strength points shortly even though Gaudreau has been incapable of producing. But sure, he doesn’t skate fast and I haven’t seen him try to dangle someone so he’s probably the problem.
Dack
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- Jun 16, 2014
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And you know he's just not very good?
He doesn't even lead the team in 5v5 scoring since Sutter showed up he's tied for 4th with like 5 other players.
His 5v5 points since Sutter have been:
A pass to a wide open Tkachuk for a breakaway. Bennett created the turnover I think.
A routine pass to the point Giordano scored on.
Jamming the puck into the side of the net before Leivo (was it him?) Scored on a sharp angle shot.
A nice shot over Price's shoulder.
How is he proving the argument that he's a problem wrong? I get that Gaudreau hasn't been good, both of them need to be moved in a retool. But at the same time Gaudreau against Winnipeg probably generated more scoring chances than Monahan has since Sutter took over.
We're paying 6.3 million to a center who hardly looks like a 2C most nights. Monahan isn't the only issue but he's still a huge issue.
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Mobiandi
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- Jan 17, 2015
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He isn't getting the benefit of the doubt as much right now because Backlund isn't saving his bacon anymore when Monahan goes on these annual 20-30 game dormant stretches
WAR for all its efforts still has bad entanglement issues to line mates and just the teams play, and it heavily favours puck-heavy players and goal scorers. It really shouldn’t be depended on at all yet in its current stage, unless you really believe Ryan Pulock is the NHL’s best defenseman followed closely by his partner.
Downplay his results all you want, but he is the only player on this entire team producing without help. Did you notice when you checked those stats, everyone else he’s competing with are pairs or full sets of lines? Monahan has gotten to 4th without a single player he’s played with having more than one point. Which is besides the point because what I said was with Dube out Monahan is probably going to take the lead at this pace in 6-7 games with his only competition being Mangiapane seemingly.
Yes none of his points have been flashy but making the smart pass or getting to the dirty areas in front of the net is producing better results than the flashy ‘beat a guy one on one and make a silky high risk pass’ right now. When you’re playing with two players with a total of 2 points in 13 games it’s those small, smart plays you need.
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Dack
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Most of those points aren't repeatable (as in 99x out of 100 making that play results in nothing). Gaudreau makes the pass he made to Giordano for a goal 10x a game. It's a low percentage scoring chance that happened to go in. Points aren't even kind of telling the whole story here. I believe that between what I've been seeing for years and the wide array of analytics that back up the take that Monahan isn't a good player. He was a pure finisher who's finishing game has faded away.
My mind is made up on Monahan and it will take a lot more than a 12 game sample size where he manages to pick up 3 more points than his linemates 5v5 to change it. Especially when the stuff he's doing is resulting in low danger scoring chances that happen to go in (2/3 assists). Monahan isn't a player we should keep and doing so would lead to more mediocrity down the line.
People always seem to think those that don't like Monahan don't like him because he's not "flashy". I'd love RoR on this team and he's not flashy at all. I don't like Monahan because he's a nothing player. He's a center who's transition game is non existent, lacks the hands/skill to create for his linemates and doesn't bring much defensively.
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Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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I still get blown away with people trying to use baseball stats for hockey.
It's nice to add some colour with analytics, but anyone who's not partially brain dead can see Monahan after like game 5 this season has looked horrible; especially of late where the puck looks like it's radioactively disintegrating on his stick.
It's nice to add some colour with analytics, but anyone who's not partially brain dead can see Monahan after like game 5 this season has looked horrible; especially of late where the puck looks like it's radioactively disintegrating on his stick.
Tkachuk Norris
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- Jun 22, 2012
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I think Monahan has shown his past value over the last year. People always said he was useless cause all he was good at scoring (he also has elite vision but never gets credit for this). Now that he is actually useless I wonder if people can see the value he had.
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
I'm convinced he has a wrist injury (or another one at least) the way he's clubbing at the puck.
Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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Say what you want about advanced stats but nobody should get outshot or out-chanced like Monahan and co do consistently. Our ‘top line’ has been a huge problem and continues to and it’s honestly insane we haven’t separated Johnny and Money permanently yet and have instead literally rode them right into the sunset
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Kranix
Deranged Homer
- Jun 27, 2012
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I've been thinking that for a while. I thought it in past years too, but the always end up saying he was fine, whether it's true or not.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Flameshomer
Likeaholic
Maybe not an aside- wtf? is he playing with a johnny stick?
Johnny's stick actually looks longer in the same clip.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Well I was kinda wondering when I watched the clip (didn't watch the game), if he'd ended up with someone elses stick? Broke his and just grabbed one from over the bench type thing?
Bounces R Way
Registered User
Monahan's problem is fairly simple : he is just not that good. People around here have been saying it for many years, it's kind of baffling the people the Flames employ as a professional hockey franchise are seemingly blind to that fact.
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- Apr 27, 2005
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He's always played with a really short stick - part of the reason he's got good hands around the net and a dangerous mid to low slot shot. That's also why he's never had a great perimeter shot - it's extremely difficult to keep the puck down when you're trying to shoot from distance with a shorter stick.
I played most of my competitive career with a short stick and flat blade. I could snipe from the hashmarks in and handle the puck / make plays in tight, but was never much of a threat to score from outside the circles. In the rare instances I played with a longer stick I felt like I could score from anywhere but every other part of my game suffered.
cheechoo
˗ˋˏ ♡ ˎˊ˗ Tomas Hertl #48 ˗ˋˏ ♡ ˎˊ˗
The way this take would have gotten you lambasted a few years ago, when he's always been the same player... B-but points! Like... He doesn't influence games in the slightest in a way that any other stone footed finisher couldn't. It's not like he's generating a significant amount of chances, no puck protection or retention skills. His line gets caved in at ES year by year. Soft. Porous defensive ability.
In the perfect cup winning world he could have been our Jordan Staal or Jeff Carter.
Mobiandi
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2015
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I think we might have a bottom 10 pro-scouting team in the league
The thing is tho it was not just our pro scouts. At least 50% of Flames fans on here refused to acknowledge it and now they’ve just silently faded into the background while his value tanked. A prime example of the James Neal effect. When are people going to stop bringing up his 30-goal seasons 4 years ago?? Only when he hits rock bottom. A clear lesson for future asset management and a huge setback for our organization that we didn’t sell high when we had the chance
Dack
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I've played hockey for most of my life and never really thought about that. Dougie Hamilton is a good example of the latter. His stick is stupid long and it gets him to trouble defensively and when he has to make dekes quickly but he can score from anywhere.
- Apr 27, 2005
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Yeah those longer sticks are great for generating torque and snapping low release wristers that rise from the blue line.
Laine is another good example. Giordano too - his snapshot from distance is ridiculous, and really noticeable if you are watching him warmup at ice level. And he has a really long stick.
With a shorter stick you can take quick little snap shots (like a Crosby) or whipping wrist shots (like a Gaudreau). But you can't really do a delayed release wrister where you lean a ton on the stick and let it release low, you just don't have the leverage.
