Samuel Morin Status Update?

[FlyersFanz]

Maybe the Flyers could use Morin to show Schenn how to skate..

 

[CanadianFlyersFan18]

I hate bringing up my personal playing experience, but when it's questioned multiple times in a thread, I guess I have little choice. I have played hockey at very high levels. My whole playing career, I've played with and against players who are in the Flyers (and other teams') prospect system right now as a matter of fact. Had I decided to waste another postgraduate year playing junior hockey, perhaps I would be playing NCAA hockey now. So my playing experience should be no concern of yours regarding this discussion. From my experience, I believe playing PK minutes are easier on the body than even strength minutes. Like I've said ad nauseum, playing the PK is more difficult to be proficient at, but in terms of the accumulated physical toll, ES minutes are at the very least equally taxing.


If this were not the case, Kimmo Timonen would not have had the seventh highest SHTOI/game in the entire damn NHL. If this were not the case Kimmo Timonen would not have been our least utilized ES defender. There is merit to the argument that PK ice time is more forgiving on a player's body, so please do not chalk this up to "lol, u mustve not played hockey b4".

I'm going to jump in and defend you as well. Playing competitive hockey like yourself, you understand PKing involves position, timing and reading the play. While blocking shots and stops and starts are hard, the riggers of 5 on 5 play between the forechecking, (getting forechecked), the board battles and end to end play is much more taxing than the PK. The PKers generally don't get forechecked nearly as hard as they would as they're not going to chase a puck that puts them out of position and the board play is also reduced due to being out numbered and defenders not wanting to put themselves out of position (the most important part of being a great PKer) PK vs 5 on 5 each has there tolls on a player but overall 5 on 5 play particularly for defencemen and Centres is very taxing on the body.

 

[PK16]

I'm going to jump in and defend you as well. Playing competitive hockey like yourself, you understand PKing involves position, timing and reading the play. While blocking shots and stops and starts are hard, the riggers of 5 on 5 play between the forechecking, (getting forechecked), the board battles and end to end play is much more taxing than the PK. The PKers generally don't get forechecked nearly as hard as they would as they're not going to chase a puck that puts them out of position and the board play is also reduced due to being out numbered and defenders not wanting to put themselves out of position (the most important part of being a great PKer) PK vs 5 on 5 each has there tolls on a player but overall 5 on 5 play particularly for defencemen and Centres is very taxing on the body.

Not to pile on, but I also agree with this, and I have played quite a bit at fairly competitive levels on the PK. An ES shift, particularly as a forward, is more taxing.

 

[sg12lw]

I hate bringing up my personal playing experience, but when it's questioned multiple times in a thread, I guess I have little choice. I have played hockey at very high levels. My whole playing career, I've played with and against players who are in the Flyers (and other teams') prospect system right now as a matter of fact. Had I decided to waste another postgraduate year playing junior hockey, perhaps I would be playing NCAA hockey now. So my playing experience should be no concern of yours regarding this discussion. From my experience, I believe playing PK minutes are easier on the body than even strength minutes. Like I've said ad nauseum, playing the PK is more difficult to be proficient at, but in terms of the accumulated physical toll, ES minutes are at the very least equally taxing.


If this were not the case, Kimmo Timonen would not have had the seventh highest SHTOI/game in the entire damn NHL. If this were not the case Kimmo Timonen would not have been our least utilized ES defender. There is merit to the argument that PK ice time is more forgiving on a player's body, so please do not chalk this up to "lol, u mustve not played hockey b4".

its harder on the body to kill a penalty.

its black and white. I am sorry. you are very wrong.

ask any (actual hockey) player this question, "you are going to play 20 minutes in tonights game and you get to choose one of two options:

1. play 20 minutes at ES

2. play 20 minutes on the PK

which one do you think will be easier on your body?"

GUARANTEE you not ONE person picks option 2.

and if thats not realistic enough for you, ask them this, okay next shift you get to either go kill a penalty or play ES -- which do you think will be easier for you?

once again, no one will pick kill a penalty.


and just for the record, anyone who thinks penalty killers are just standing around out there and not doing much.... WOW are you mistaken! if you relax for one second on the PK you are going to get burned. end of story.

if you claim to have played (at a high level) then you should know this.

if you havent played at a high level, then i can see why you would think killing a penalty doesnt look that hard.

another classic HF thread that i keep getting roped into for some reason...why do i do this! god help me

 

[sg12lw]

Not to pile on, but I also agree with this, and I have played quite a bit at fairly competitive levels on the PK. An ES shift, particularly as a forward, is more taxing.

then you are out of shape my friend... and/or a lazy/bad penalty killer

 

[Random Forest]

its harder on the body to kill a penalty.

its black and white. I am sorry. you are very wrong.

ask any (actual hockey) player this question, "you are going to play 20 minutes in tonights game and you get to choose one of two options:

1. play 20 minutes at ES

2. play 20 minutes on the PK

which one do you think will be easier on your body?"

GUARANTEE you not ONE person picks option 2.

and if thats not realistic enough for you, ask them this, okay next shift you get to either go kill a penalty or play ES -- which do you think will be easier for you?

once again, no one will pick kill a penalty.


and just for the record, anyone who thinks penalty killers are just standing around out there and not doing much.... WOW are you mistaken! if you relax for one second on the PK you are going to get burned. end of story.

if you claim to have played (at a high level) then you should know this.

if you havent played at a high level, then i can see why you would think killing a penalty doesnt look that hard.

another classic HF thread that i keep getting roped into for some reason...why do i do this! god help me

Interesting because Timonen and Berube seem to be defying your logic. Guess they never played competitive hockey.

 

[The Rage Kage]

If penalty killing truly was more taxing, timonen wouldn't be doing as much of it. There's a reason he hardly played any even strength time and a lot of his minutes were on the penalty kill, it's easier on him.

 

[PK16]

then you are out of shape my friend... and/or a lazy/bad penalty killer

Hahaha. The wisdom of of the internet. Get back to your beer league my friend.

 

[Prongo]

I feel a clash of internet egos is about to transpire here!

 

[Willis88]

I really don't see how someone could argue that being on the PK is more taxing. If you're blocking a couple shots then yeah, that's gonna hurt. But exhaustion would be much more evident in ES. Significantly more skating required on ES, especially the forecheck. You're not typically sitting in 1 zone the entire time.

 

[sg12lw]

kimmo is our best dman

you put your best players out there in crucial situations. pretty ****ing simple.

we were behind the 8 ball pretty much all year after our horrible start, so pretty much every game was huge for us....so when it gets down to key moments (i.e penalty kills) you need your best players out there

they tried using rinaldo to save giroux and couts PK time (bc it was taxing on them) but how long did that last? a week? when push came to shove craig put his most reliable players out there on the pk.

and out of our average d core -- kimmo stands out as the only super reliable option

.... good argument tho

 

[sg12lw]

I really don't see how someone could argue that being on the PK is more taxing. If you're blocking a couple shots then yeah, that's gonna hurt. But exhaustion would be much more evident in ES. Significantly more skating required on ES, especially the forecheck. You're not typically sitting in 1 zone the entire time.

stops and starts -- go out on skates and try it for 40 seconds

 

[flyershockey]

stops and starts -- go out on skates and try it for 40 seconds

You do all that while at ES as well. PK shifts are generally very structured and designed to keep guys from running around.

 

[sg12lw]

You do all that while at ES as well. PK shifts are generally very structured and designed to keep guys from running around.

do it for 40 seconds going 5-10 feet each time

then do it for 40 going for 50 feet each time

let me know what is easier

 

[sg12lw]

Hahaha. The wisdom of of the internet. Get back to your beer league my friend.

how does that comeback make any sense?

hahaha good one tho

 

[Striiker]

I don't know what PK you're referring to, but if a PK unit is starting and stopping constantly for the full two minutes, or even half that, then clearly they're doing something wrong. Every PK I've ever seen has looked pretty structured, it's not like the Dmen are skating all over the defensive zone.

 

[Prongo]

All you do during the PK is chase the puck. It's mentally and physically challenging. The best players position themselves so they have to do as minimal chasing as possible but it is still damn hard work. When you have the puck on your stick it just never seems like fatigue is an issue unless you are out there for 5 minutes...

Defense is always harder and the tougher assignment when playing.

 

[Striiker]

I'm sure it's extremely difficult and I'm not arguing either side, I don't know anything about the subject because I've never played hockey. All I'm saying is he's arguing as if all 4 PKers are starting and stopping for the full 2 minutes, which isn't true.

 

[Bill_Meltzer]

Lauridsen had a nice piece written up by Meltzer, then the fan boys came out..

I love Meltzer, he's my favorite hockey journalist by far. But he's not always right, and his word isn't gospel. He's never had faith in Akeson up until very recently for example.

I think the Meltzer endorsement took Lauridsen further than he deserved (at least on hf)

I was never all that high on Lauridsen. The most I ever said was that he played surprisingly well in his late-season stint with the Flyers in 2013 and played well at the Worlds for Denmark. All along, I said his footwork and puckhandling still had to get better and he was likely headed back to the Phantoms to work on those things.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=52745

As for Akeson, what I have said -- and stand by -- is that his combination of lacking size and having average skating means he's had two strikes against him and improving his play without the puck was the key to avoiding strike three. Even after dressing in all seven games against the Rangers in the playoffs, some very highly respected NHL scouts are still dubious that he'll stick in the NHL level, and say that we will know by mid-season next year if he's going to have a spot or be a Mike Maneluk type.

 

[FLYguy3911]

then you are out of shape my friend... and/or a lazy/bad penalty killer

The irony in this statement. I can just picture you chasing the puck around the zone on the PK.

PK and PP situations are static hockey. Sure you will take your lumps on the PK, but for the most part you are in a 10 foot radius. There's no forechecking, no need to lug the puck out of the zone, etc. It's like zone defense in basketball. It's a lot less taxing than man-to-man.

 

[Striiker]

I'd hope that they give Akeson a fair shot to make the team out of camp, then at least we'll know what we have and we can decide what to do with him. Having him in the AHL forever and just giving him tiny bursts of NHL action isn't helping either party.

This year he either sinks or swims, if he can't make the team then trade him. If McGinn can get a 3rd then maybe we can get another decent pick by trading a more skilled player to a team starving for offensive skill like Nashville.

 

[sg12lw]

I'm sure it's extremely difficult and I'm not arguing either side, I don't know anything about the subject because I've never played hockey. All I'm saying is he's arguing as if all 4 PKers are starting and stopping for the full 2 minutes, which isn't true.

you are constantly moving. not very far, but you are moving.

thats why i said 5 feet.

you cant be lazy on a PK. not for one second.

you can be lazy at ES and get away with it (for a whole shift if you want)

and anyone who has ever played wing can tell you playing the dzone as a wing is pretty easy -- playing forward on the PK, not so much.

pretty clear im not going to change anyones mind on this. but i dont care.

my point is killing penalties is harder on the body (for lots of reasons) and imo its not debatable. guess i'll just stop there.

BACK TO THE THREAD

Lauridsen is not a smart player or defender

in his brief stint with us, how many times did he let his guy in front of the net score a rebound goal? wayyy too many. He gets caught trying to force people out of the crease (which doesnt work great in the nhl) and always seemed to have his stick in the air.

I dont see him as an NHLer. not now, or ever. Cant fix stupid

 

[Prongo]

Next years defense:

Coburn-Weber
Morin-Pietrangelo
Hagg-Ghost

Forwards:

Ryan O'Reilly-Giroux-Bobby Ryan.
thats it.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

.... good argument tho

Ironic....

Penalty Killing is WAY tougher than playing even strength. Ask any forward or dman who has ever done it. It's not debatable. Sorry.

Incorrect.

source: someone who has done it for 20+ years.

then you are out of shape my friend... and/or a lazy/bad penalty killer

 

[McNasty]

The PK isn't necessarily more taxing than ES, but in any game situation being hemmed in your own end is more taxing than having the other team hemmed in their end.

You can't use Timonen's SH ice time as a reason to say they are easier minutes. He's on the ice for the PK because he is our most efficient all around defender and therefore we need him on the ice. It's similar to how Giroux's ice time goes up in games where the Flyers trail in the 3rd, he's out there because he is the best option.