Samuel Morin Status Update?

[blinds]

Jeez, I just watched the video and this kid is fast for being that big. Surprised to say it as I imagined he'd need at least 2-3 more years, but I could see him making the team this year. He's got the right attitude and all the physical tools you could need and he seems to be maturing quickly on top of all that. Only problem is there's no room for him.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Spoken like someone who has never killed a penalty....

Its HARD work. Skating itself not hard on the body. 45 seconds of stops and starts, bending over to get in passing lanes, blocking shots, battling with forwards in front of the net, battling in the corners etc. is hard on the body.

Sorry but you are 100 percent off here. I get what you are saying/thinking, but thats not how it really works. Killing penalties sucks. Ever notice how if a team has the puck in the zone for over a minute that all the penalty killers can barely move?? It's not because standing around doing nothing wore them out...

You literally do all of that at ES as well with a higher game speed & tighter area's.

For guys like Timonen who aren't as fleet footed as they once was skating is a big deal especially when you have to cover all three zones. On the PK there is more defensive structure along with lesser ice to cover since you're conceeding the neutral & opponent's zone basically. On the PK the responsibility is basically split right down the middle between all the guys out there on the kill. At ES that isn't necessarily the case where the defensemen do a lot of the heavy lifting defensively along with the center.

Also the forecheck is a lot more frequent at 5V5 which can be rigorous on smaller guys like Timonen.

 

[BernieParent]

You literally do all of that at ES as well with a higher game speed & tighter area's.

For guys like Timonen who aren't as fleet footed as they once was skating is a big deal especially when you have to cover all three zones. On the PK there is more defensive structure along with lesser ice to cover since you're conceeding the neutral & opponent's zone basically. On the PK the responsibility is basically split right down the middle between all the guys out there on the kill. At ES that isn't necessarily the case where the defensemen do a lot of the heavy lifting defensively along with the center.

Also the forecheck is a lot more frequent at 5V5 which can be rigorous on smaller guys like Timonen.

The most obvious counterpoint is that a team can expect to be chasing the puck much more when down a man. 5v5 in own zone allows more of an attack strategy. Then again, the Flyers have an awful tendency to chase the puck in their own zone even when at ES.

 

[Codith]

I love that he is progressing down the road we need him too. He needs one more year in the Q, and hopefully with this he can lock down a spot on team canada this year. Then 1-2 years in the AHL, and we should be able to unleash this beast.

 

[sg12lw]

You literally do all of that at ES as well with a higher game speed & tighter area's.

For guys like Timonen who aren't as fleet footed as they once was skating is a big deal especially when you have to cover all three zones. On the PK there is more defensive structure along with lesser ice to cover since you're conceeding the neutral & opponent's zone basically. On the PK the responsibility is basically split right down the middle between all the guys out there on the kill. At ES that isn't necessarily the case where the defensemen do a lot of the heavy lifting defensively along with the center.

Also the forecheck is a lot more frequent at 5V5 which can be rigorous on smaller guys like Timonen.

Penalty Killing is WAY tougher than playing even strength. Ask any forward or dman who has ever done it. It's not debatable. Sorry.

 

[Random Forest]

Penalty Killing is WAY tougher than playing even strength. Ask any forward or dman who has ever done it. It's not debatable. Sorry.

"Tougher" is a very vague term.

Do you mean "tougher" as in more difficult to be proficient at? If so, then yes, you're right, and nobody is objecting.

Do you mean "tougher" as in more physically strenuous and exhausting? Because if this is what you are referring to, then it most certainly is debatable. 5v5 shifts are more physically taxing. Withstanding heavy forechecks are some of the toughest situations on the body in addition to fighting board battles. Both of these are minimized on special teams when the PP team is much more concerned with structure and possession.

There's a reason why Timonen's PK minutes were high while his ES minutes got cut last year and its precisely because of what I said above.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It certainly helps when a PKer is as smart and efficient as Timonen. He doesn't rely on physicality or athleticism to PK, he relies on smart positioning. I don't think he even blocks that many shots on the PK, right? Generally he's taking away passing and shooting lanes to begin with.

 

[Random Forest]

It certainly helps when a PKer is as smart and efficient as Timonen. He doesn't rely on physicality or athleticism to PK, he relies on smart positioning. I don't think he even blocks that many shots on the PK, right? Generally he's taking away passing and shooting lanes to begin with.

Was trying to figure a way to articulate this into my post but got lazy. That's another great point. For my money, Timonen is the most efficient player in the NHL and he has been for a while. There is no extra energy wasted in Timonen's game, and his positional instincts are what makes him still a terrific PKer even at this point in his career.

 

[Protest]

"Tougher" is a very vague term.

Do you mean "tougher" as in more difficult to be proficient at? If so, then yes, you're right, and nobody is objecting.

Do you mean "tougher" as in more physically strenuous and exhausting? Because if this is what you are referring to, then it most certainly is debatable. 5v5 shifts are more physically taxing. Withstanding heavy forechecks are some of the toughest situations on the body in addition to fighting board battles. Both of these are minimized on special teams when the PP team is much more concerned with structure and possession.

There's a reason why Timonen's PK minutes were high while his ES minutes got cut last year and its precisely because of what I said above.

Pking is all the bad parts of playing ES and none of the good. Guys usually seem way more gassed after a long PK shift, or after being pinned in their own end at ES, than they do after going up and down the ice. Everyone is different though, and the only way to know which is tougher on Timonen is to ask him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Was trying to figure a way to articulate this into my post but got lazy. That's another great point. For my money, Timonen is the most efficient player in the NHL and he has been for a while. There is no extra energy wasted in Timonen's game, and his positional instincts are what makes him still a terrific PKer even at this point in his career.

Yeah, Timonen's PK style doesn't look taxing. Compare that to Mike Richards though, he was eternally hustling his ass off. Couturier works pretty hard as well.

I'm not saying PK is easy, but Timonen makes it look as effortless as it can possibly be.

 

[sg12lw]

"Tougher" is a very vague term.

Do you mean "tougher" as in more difficult to be proficient at? If so, then yes, you're right, and nobody is objecting.

Do you mean "tougher" as in more physically strenuous and exhausting? Because if this is what you are referring to, then it most certainly is debatable. 5v5 shifts are more physically taxing. Withstanding heavy forechecks are some of the toughest situations on the body in addition to fighting board battles. Both of these are minimized on special teams when the PP team is much more concerned with structure and possession.

There's a reason why Timonen's PK minutes were high while his ES minutes got cut last year and its precisely because of what I said above.

Incorrect.

source: someone who has done it for 20+ years.

Kimmo is out there on the pk bc he is our best and most reliable dman and we NEED him out there on the pk.

I said its not up for debate and yet here i am haha -- okay this is it. i am bowing out. if you guys dont believe me then so be it. not gonna beat my head against the wall when thats not even the point of the thread ha

 

[Beef Invictus]

Oh, I believe you. PKing is hard. Grossmann and Coburn are two more guys who work hard on the PK, for instance. You can see it takes a toll on a lot of players.

Timonen though, he's very efficient at it. If he's taxing the hell out of himself he sure is doing it with grace.

 

[Random Forest]

Incorrect.

source: someone who has done it for 20+ years.

Kimmo is out there on the pk bc he is our best and most reliable dman and we NEED him out there on the pk.

I said its not up for debate and yet here i am haha -- okay this is it. i am bowing out. if you guys dont believe me then so be it. not gonna beat my head against the wall when thats not even the point of the thread ha

You're not the only who's played hockey for a long time. Nobody is saying PKing is easy. It's not. I'm saying that you rack up more wear and tear from playing 5v5 than you do on the PK.

PKing is harder to do than playing 5v5, but playing 5v5 is tougher on the body. To give you an analogy, it's like saying soccer is a harder sport to play than football, but football is tougher and more strenuous.

 

[deadhead]

I think the PK is much harder on the forwards, who do a lot more skating and have to rush back when they're in the opposing zone.

For a defensemen like Timonen, with great anticipation, he can coast for much of the PK just through good positioning, he's not going to skate out of the zone, he'll let the forwards do the hard work.

 

[deadhead]

Unless he blows them away in camp, there's no reason to rush Morin the next two years, he needs 20+ minutes a night in juniors and the AHL more than 8-10 minutes in the NHL.

For one thing, they have 7 veteran defensemen, and 3 prospects in the AHL, so unless you're going to play him 20 minutes, it makes no sense to keep him on the roster this year, and that means trading one of the 6 starters (yes, everyone wants to move Grossman, but easier said than done). And you'd have to move that player in September.

They need to find time for Ghost, Hagg and Alt, much less Morin, which is why I expect them to start at Lehigh and show they're ready.

It's actually a good situation to be in, a solid (maybe not worth the money, but if Grossman's healthy, not a bad 6) defense with 3 solid AHL prospects and two potentially elite junior prospects behind them.

 

[Prongo]

I honestly think he gives the Flyers pause but eventually is sent back down to juniors.

I will say, I don't think there is a chance he plays a year or two in the AHL. I think when he comes out of juniors he is on the team or a call up mid season. Juts my opinion of course.

 

[Striiker]

I'd love to see him get a couple NHL games before being sent back down, but I don't see that happening with all the D we already have... there's just no room.

 

[The Rage Kage]

Maybe he could get a few games at the start if grossman isn't feeling 100% so they could see how he handles actual NHL games, if he's not ready they can send him down.

I'm also one that thinks he won't be in the ahl after this year (at least not a full ahl season) I think he's going to make a spot for himself start of the 15-16 season and maybe mid way through.

 

[HighOFFHockey]

Jeez, I just watched the video and this kid is fast for being that big. Surprised to say it as I imagined he'd need at least 2-3 more years, but I could see him making the team this year. He's got the right attitude and all the physical tools you could need and he seems to be maturing quickly on top of all that. Only problem is there's no room for him.

Saw him play last season in the preseason. He is not that far from making this team at all. However, it could be argued that a couple more years of lower level play will only benefit him.

The kid screams of confidence. I saw him screaming at Kimmo a few times asking for the puck. Kid is a winner at heart.

 

[F L Y E R S]

I say let's just get crazy and pair him up with Lauridsen asap. 2 giants with a mean streak.

btw I actually liked when Lauridsen got called up 2 years ago. He took some stupid penalties, but he was fun to watch.

 

[blinds]

I say let's just get crazy and pair him up with Lauridsen asap. 2 giants with a mean streak.

btw I actually liked when Lauridsen got called up 2 years ago. He took some stupid penalties, but he was fun to watch.

Man, I never understood why people were so infatuated with Lauridsen. I thought he was god awful, yeah he's big and mean, but he wasn't a good defender at all. I don't see why Lauridsen should even be an option with all the great prospects we have now.

 

[Striiker]

Man, I never understood why people were so infatuated with Lauridsen. I thought he was god awful, yeah he's big and mean, but he wasn't a good defender at all. I don't see why Lauridsen should even be an option with all the great prospects we have now.

Same reason people loved McGinn, he was an AHL callup who didn't score on his own goal... that must mean he's great...

Neither are good enough to be on this team, not even close.

 

[tuckrr]

Man, I never understood why people were so infatuated with Lauridsen. I thought he was god awful, yeah he's big and mean, but he wasn't a good defender at all. I don't see why Lauridsen should even be an option with all the great prospects we have now.

Lauridsen had a nice piece written up by Meltzer, then the fan boys came out..

I love Meltzer, he's my favorite hockey journalist by far. But he's not always right, and his word isn't gospel. He's never had faith in Akeson up until very recently for example.

I think the Meltzer endorsement took Lauridsen further than he deserved (at least on hf)

 

[Larry44]

Pking is all the bad parts of playing ES and none of the good. Guys usually seem way more gassed after a long PK shift, or after being pinned in their own end at ES, than they do after going up and down the ice. Everyone is different though, and the only way to know which is tougher on Timonen is to ask him.

Anyone who doesn't get that playing the PK is harder, minute for minute, than playing even strength needs to try playing hockey once instead of just watching and spouting off crap. Geesh.

 

[Random Forest]

Anyone who doesn't get that playing the PK is harder, minute for minute, than playing even strength needs to try playing hockey once instead of just watching and spouting off crap. Geesh.

I hate bringing up my personal playing experience, but when it's questioned multiple times in a thread, I guess I have little choice. I have played hockey at very high levels. My whole playing career, I've played with and against players who are in the Flyers (and other teams') prospect system right now as a matter of fact. Had I decided to waste another postgraduate year playing junior hockey, perhaps I would be playing NCAA hockey now. So my playing experience should be no concern of yours regarding this discussion. From my experience, I believe playing PK minutes are easier on the body than even strength minutes. Like I've said ad nauseum, playing the PK is more difficult to be proficient at, but in terms of the accumulated physical toll, ES minutes are at the very least equally taxing.


If this were not the case, Kimmo Timonen would not have had the seventh highest SHTOI/game in the entire damn NHL. If this were not the case Kimmo Timonen would not have been our least utilized ES defender. There is merit to the argument that PK ice time is more forgiving on a player's body, so please do not chalk this up to "lol, u mustve not played hockey b4".