Sabretooth
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it feels like for the past 6 years people have been saying we're 2 years out from competing for a playoff spot.
Player Discussion Sam Reinhart: Part III
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Then they are comically giving this regime a free pass... no more excuses. A team that adds two of the 5 best prospects in the world, along with Skinner, Sheary, Berglund, Hutton... to their core.... is competing.
haseoke39
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- Mar 29, 2011
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Given the choice of {Skinner, Sheary, Berglund, Hutton} or {ROR, Kane, Pouliot, Lehner}, which group do you take? I say it's pretty even.
So we're talking about how fast Dahlin and Mittelstadt can develop, which is not a safe bet for year 1. I don't think playoffs are a reasonable expectation.
It's just part of the re-build, part two. Nobody thinks they are getting in the playoffs this season, and that's not a free pass. Just how it is. Botterill is acquiring talent at the expense of some short-term cap hits, but this isn't a playoff team right now regardless. Next season maybe, but certainly before all the dead weight is gone. Throwing a fit about cap for this season...why bother?
The edge goes to ROR group... but that's besides the point. You don't make these moves and then say, we're not trying to win this year.
I don't expect playoffs... but that's what the team should be trying for... not wasting another season in Buffalo.
Eichel is making 10 million, Dahlin and Mitts are here. There are no more rebuild seasons. The rebuild is over.
It's fine to think we aren't good enough to make the playoffs (note, that view is largely driven by the crap in the lower half in the lineup that I am primarily arguing should have to beat younger / better players to hold on to)... it is not fine to actively make decisions that make that outcome more likely.
Literally no one is advocating for another wasted season at the bottom. There was a whole poll about it.
Proper asset management isn't the same thing as "not going for it". We have enough NHL-level talent to fill the Sabres roster without dipping into the waiver-eligible players like Nylander and Thompson and Guhle. Which isn't to say that I don't think they should get a spot if they clearly earn one...but it has to be clear as day that they're the better choice for the role the team would prefer to see them in (top nine, minimum).
I'm not even saying as a fan that I wouldn't love to see all three of those guys make the team. I totally would. It would be exciting to watch Sabres games again, even more so than it already should be. I just don't see it happening and I don't even feel like it should happen...again, unless it's clear as day that a waiver-exempt player wiped the floor with a guy penciled into the lineup already.
It's like this:
We know that a Bottom 6 of something like: Berglund, Sobotka, Larsson, Pominville, Girgs, Wilson, etc.... can be expected to be god damn awful offensively.... you swap 2 of those guys out for an Asplund and Thompson.... how much better does our outlook for the year look? The bottom 6 gets no worse defensively... and likely has gotten faster with more offensive skill. Or how much do Thompson and/or Olofsson change the impact of our 2nd PP unit? A unit that the veteran roster would force guys like Berglund.
Or look at the bottom of our D core... Beaulieau, Hunwick, Nelson.... offensive blackholes with defensive deficiencies the size of mercury... how much better does our outlook for the year get with Guhle having a Brendan Carlo type of season on the 3rd pair?
I'm not arguing for any particular rookie/rochester player... and I'm not arguing against any particular Buffalo vet... I want camp/preseason to sort that out.
I am arguing against the notion that all the young guys go to Rochester because that's just how it's done and some silly culture narrative.... and that the vets get first crack and the regular season... because well... they're vets. Down with hierarchy.
We know that a Bottom 6 of something like: Berglund, Sobotka, Larsson, Pominville, Girgs, Wilson, etc.... can be expected to be god damn awful offensively.... you swap 2 of those guys out for an Asplund and Thompson.... how much better does our outlook for the year look? The bottom 6 gets no worse defensively... and likely has gotten faster with more offensive skill. Or how much do Thompson and/or Olofsson change the impact of our 2nd PP unit? A unit that the veteran roster would force guys like Berglund.
Or look at the bottom of our D core... Beaulieau, Hunwick, Nelson.... offensive blackholes with defensive deficiencies the size of mercury... how much better does our outlook for the year get with Guhle having a Brendan Carlo type of season on the 3rd pair?
I'm not arguing for any particular rookie/rochester player... and I'm not arguing against any particular Buffalo vet... I want camp/preseason to sort that out.
I am arguing against the notion that all the young guys go to Rochester because that's just how it's done and some silly culture narrative.... and that the vets get first crack and the regular season... because well... they're vets. Down with hierarchy.
That's literally what he did last year... it's a fact.
Anyone advocating for keeping bad players, and shipping better players to Rochester is advocating for wasting another season. Wins in October count just the same as wins in March.
I don't see it happening either...
But it should.
haseoke39
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- Mar 29, 2011
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That's not the deal though...in addition to not being forced to waive players you don't want to, the young guys go to Rochester so their contracts continue to slide and we get more ELC years out of them when we badly need very good players on the cheap (which is right around the time we're going to be paying Jack, Sam, Casey and the two Rasmi about $40 million a year).
It's about the 2018-19 season, but it's not ALL about the 2018-19 season. You have to make moves that are best for the team now, as well as into the future. Unless you're so confident about the nucleus of the team you have already that adding a couple hotshot rookies at the expense of serviceable veterans will push a playoff team into a true contender. This isn't that. We're probably a bottom ten team right now and you're advocating sacrificing assets (in the form of ELC years as well as veteran players) in the hope that we will only be a bottom fifteen team. That would be beyond foolish.
Checking....and....no, I guess that's wrong. At least in the cases of players we're discussing. Dahlin and UPL would be eligible to slide. I'm definitely no dotcommunism when it comes to the legalities.
I was told repeatedly that trading O’Reilly was addition by subtraction... was I lied too?
Just so I understand, are you saying that Botts gets 3 years of no playoff expectations after taking over this team?
That’s the saddest thing I ever heard.
Because that did happen? Or because you shouldn’t expect Botts to do it this year just because they did last year.
I would certainly hope that Botts is open to getting young guys in if they are good enough.
Haven’t seen enough of Botts in that situation to know for sure. Tho last year I would really liked to have seen baptiste and Bailey get more nhl games over Nolan or the other trash we played.
Jamie Walker
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I’m not sure I understand why that matters? The team had several good pieces when he took over and was as far from the playoffs as they were from last place. He then got super lucky, won the draft and got a superstar defender that we had no expectations of being in the running for.
So given that, why in the world would we have such low expectations?
In all honesty if that is the deal, why bother getting a new gm?
jc17
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- Jun 14, 2013
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Djp
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I look ahead to summer 2020 assume $81M cap
G --Ullmark/Hutton $5M
D- $18M+ ELC bonus
vet(5)-Dalhlin (E)
Guhle(2)-Risto(5.4)
Pilut(2)-Borgen (E)
Hickey(1)
defense= $18M
The vet could be McCabe, resign Scandella, get another vet Dman in mid 20s.
Forwards
Skinner (7) -Eichel(10)-Reinhart(6)
Nylander(E)-Mitts(7)-Olofsson(3)
xxx-Asplund(E)-xxx
xxx-Malone(1)-xxx
Berglund(4) xxx
43M+5 F roster spots
5+18+43=66.
dead space = 1
5 f for $16M
they key with Skinner is signing him to a 4 year deal then bridge Nylander and Asplund who would be due when Skinner ends his contract then his money could go to them for long 3rd contracts.
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
If guys suck get rid of them and put guys who might not suck in their place. I don't know why that is so complicated.
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