Player Discussion Sam Reinhart: Part III

[ZZamboni]

The number reported back was 5.75 from Reinharts camp while Botterill was coming in at 4.25 I believe.

Rumors and speculation. Could be way way different.

 

[5 Minute Major]

I know Reinhart is already in town skating with teammates, but has there been any word on whether he will attend training camp without a deal?

I haven’t heard anything. Has anyone else?

I guess we will find out real soon one way or another...

Can he attend camp without a contract?

 

[beerme1]

I know Reinhart is already in town skating with teammates, but has there been any word on whether he will attend training camp without a deal?

I haven’t heard anything. Has anyone else?

I guess we will find out real soon one way or another...

I heard somewhere on the radio today that Nylander is not listed on the Leafs camp roster and that Samson is listed on ours fwiw.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Just get the f***ing deal done. I hate waiting on this shit. Especially with camp and preseason just around the corner.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Rumors and speculation. Could be way way different.

Could be but those are the only numbers we got so we should go with them for now. I think the hold up is probably signing bonuses especially during CBA years and term, if both were to meet somewhere in the middle but skew it a tiny bit in Reinharts favor they could go 5.25 for 6 years but then Reinhart could be looking for 8 so once again term and bonuses are probably the hold up.

Then again I am just speculating but its my best guess at this moment in time.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

I heard somewhere on the radio today that Nylander is not listed on the Leafs camp roster and that Samson is listed on ours fwiw.

Thanks. Appreciate the info.

Can he attend camp without a contract?

Yes he can. Ristolainen did a couple years back while he was waiting for his new deal.

It seems out of the norm though, for guys to attend without a contract. Most seem to stay off the ice at camp until they have a new deal.

Hopefully they get a deal done soon and then it won’t matter...

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

In case you wonder why talks are slow...Sam is still a guy that scores a bunch of tip ins.

His goals from last season:


There are maybe 3-4 impressive efforts, the rest you can get a net front specialist to do. I agree with Botts holding out and not giving Sam the world just because he is good in front of the net. We need this skill but that's not enough in today's NHL to be worthy of high pay for a winger. 16-17 was roughly the same sort of highlights on his goals. Botts shouldn't be paying a dime more than 5mil for this kind of production. 6 years @ 5 sounds about right to me. Or just bridge him at 3mil if he doesn't take that, he doesn't have much leverage to hold out as an RFA.

 

[Waterfowlist]

In case you wonder why talks are slow...Sam is still a guy that scores a bunch of tip ins.

His goals from last season:


There are maybe 3-4 impressive efforts, the rest you can get a net front specialist to do. I agree with Botts holding out and not giving Sam the world just because he is good in front of the net. We need this skill but that's not enough in today's NHL to be worthy of high pay for a winger. 16-17 was roughly the same sort of highlights on his goals. Botts shouldn't be paying a dime more than 5mil for this kind of production. 6 years @ 5 sounds about right to me. Or just bridge him at 3mil if he doesn't take that, he doesn't have much leverage to hold out as an RFA.

I agree with your valuation of Reinhart, but come on, his net front presence cannot be replaced by just any “net front specialist.” He has elite net front presence and stick work. Getting a replacement through free agency or trade will cost a pretty penny.

Regardless of where he gets them, the guy scores 20+ goals a year.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I agree with your valuation of Reinhart, but come on, his net front presence cannot be replaced by just any “net front specialist.” He has elite net front presence and stick work. Getting a replacement through free agency or trade will cost a pretty penny.

Regardless of where he gets them, the guy scores 20+ goals a year.

He is elite at that, no doubt. But net front presence does not get you more than 5 mil in the NHL when you are signing your second contract.

Maybe I should say "shouldnt't" cause maybe Sam signs for 6 mil in a couple of days and everyone jumps on me. If that happens, I don't think this is very reasonable money management on Botts side.

 

[tsujimoto74]

He is elite at that, no doubt. But net front presence does not get you more than 5 mil in the NHL when you are signing your second contract.

Maybe I should say "shouldnt't" cause maybe Sam signs for 6 mil in a couple of days and everyone jumps on me. If that happens, I don't think this is very reasonable money management on Botts side.

Remind me how much we paid Vanek? And what's JVR getting? Guys who make their living in front of the net get paid all the time, and Reinhart is actually contributes in other areas of the game as well.

 

[JLewyB]

He is elite at that, no doubt. But net front presence does not get you more than 5 mil in the NHL when you are signing your second contract.

Maybe I should say "shouldnt't" cause maybe Sam signs for 6 mil in a couple of days and everyone jumps on me. If that happens, I don't think this is very reasonable money management on Botts side.

He’s elite at making the right play. I’m all about bridge deal for the record but we’re not talking about paying 6 mil to a net front guy.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Remind me how much we paid Vanek? And what's JVR getting? Guys who make their living in front of the net get paid all the time, and Reinhart is actually contributes in other areas of the game as well.

Vanek is much bigger impact player than Sam in terms of offense, Sam is pretty much a net front guy in terms of production. JVR was getting 4.25 until this season on his RFA deal. Sam shouldn't be getting more than 5 and I am not at all surprised this has prolonged for so long as no doubt he is asking for more than that based on draft pedigree and Botts is saying no based on actual production on NHL ice. Maybe they settle on 5.5, but if I were Botts I would stand pat and only offer 5 or a cheap bridge deal.

 

[Samsonite23]

Vanek is much bigger impact player than Sam in terms of offense, Sam is pretty much a net front guy in terms of production. JVR was getting 4.25 until this season on his RFA deal. Sam shouldn't be getting more than 5 and I am not at all surprised this has prolonged for so long as no doubt he is asking for more than that based on draft pedigree and Botts is saying no based on actual production on NHL ice. Maybe they settle on 5.5, but if I were Botts I would stand pat and only offer 5 or a cheap bridge deal.

What does that first sentence infer? Vanek was pretty much a net front guy in terms of production as well, so I don't understand. He scored more, so that's having a bigger impact on offense, but they were both net front guys.

The second part: JVR signed that deal in after the 2011-2012 season. Comparable contracts being signed now are inflated.

In addition Sam scored more points ever year (in the first 3 years of their careers) when comparing him to JVR. JVR is also completely useless in the non-scoring parts of the game. Sam excels in the other areas of the game. So I don't think the two are as comparable as you make it seem.

 

[Gabrielor]

With all the interviews today, you gotta think progress is being made on this. Sam has always struck me as a team guy, and hearing the support being preached, I feel like a deal will come very soon.

 

[OkimLom]

In case you wonder why talks are slow...Sam is still a guy that scores a bunch of tip ins.

His goals from last season:


There are maybe 3-4 impressive efforts, the rest you can get a net front specialist to do. I agree with Botts holding out and not giving Sam the world just because he is good in front of the net. We need this skill but that's not enough in today's NHL to be worthy of high pay for a winger. 16-17 was roughly the same sort of highlights on his goals. Botts shouldn't be paying a dime more than 5mil for this kind of production. 6 years @ 5 sounds about right to me. Or just bridge him at 3mil if he doesn't take that, he doesn't have much leverage to hold out as an RFA.

This again...

 

[OkimLom]

Vanek is much bigger impact player than Sam in terms of offense, Sam is pretty much a net front guy in terms of production. JVR was getting 4.25 until this season on his RFA deal. Sam shouldn't be getting more than 5 and I am not at all surprised this has prolonged for so long as no doubt he is asking for more than that based on draft pedigree and Botts is saying no based on actual production on NHL ice. Maybe they settle on 5.5, but if I were Botts I would stand pat and only offer 5 or a cheap bridge deal.

Cac's world: "How good is Reinhart, all he does is tap-ins and tips".

The real World: "Reinhart goes where the puck is going to end up like other elite hockey players, and he's good at it"

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Genny Screamer]

Botts on the Instigators - It's a situation were Sam is not in camp today.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Cac's world: "How good is Reinhart, all he does is tap-ins and tips".

The real World: "Reinhart goes where the puck is going to end up like other elite hockey players, and he's good at it"

I juat hope we actually have a non-fanboy GM that see things as they are. I already kniw the fanboy opionions around here that portrey Sam as something way better than he actually is. Hes fine to stay and be a semi-decent winger and PP specialist but such a player shouldnt be earning more than 5 mil 3 years into his NHL career.

 

[Jame]

Vanek is much bigger impact player than Sam in terms of offense, Sam is pretty much a net front guy in terms of production. JVR was getting 4.25 until this season on his RFA deal. Sam shouldn't be getting more than 5 and I am not at all surprised this has prolonged for so long as no doubt he is asking for more than that based on draft pedigree and Botts is saying no based on actual production on NHL ice. Maybe they settle on 5.5, but if I were Botts I would stand pat and only offer 5 or a cheap bridge deal.

That deal was 6.75% of the cap at the time it was signed.
6.75% of today's cap is about 5.4 per.

so, yea, the 5.5 is much more accurate in comparison to JVRs deal... even though Sam is significantly better than JVR over the 1st 3 years of their career.... once factoring that in you start to realize the long term # is in the 5.5-6.0 range

 

[Jame]

man... how did reinhart manage 55 assists the last two seasons just standing in front of the net...

Caco Reinhar takes are the worst.

 

[Aladyyn]

I almost want Reinhart to sit out some games just so some posters can see the impact he has.

 

[Royal Thunder]

Reinhart finally looked like a man out there last year and was flat out beasting in some games towards the end of the season. I for one am stoked to watch a full season of that. He's a guy that you really have to watch closely to appreciate how good he is.

6 years 32 million works for me

 

[Gabrielor]

Get it done today botts!

 

[Samsonite23]

I juat hope we actually have a non-fanboy GM that see things as they are. I already kniw the fanboy opionions around here that portrey Sam as something way better than he actually is. Hes fine to stay and be a semi-decent winger and PP specialist but such a player shouldnt be earning more than 5 mil 3 years into his NHL career.

Percentage of total points to come on the PP over the past 2 seasons:

Reinhart: 39%
Eichel: 38%
ROR: 46%
Okposo: 49%


"PP specialist"